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Passions in Poetry

Teenagers!

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fractal007
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since 06-01-2000
Posts 2032


0 posted 12-16-2002 08:16 PM       View Profile for fractal007   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fractal007

I am getting pretty dang tired of kids wanting weed legalized and then stealing from people in order to satisfy their little simple-minded cravings.  Yeah!  Demand that something be legalized just so that more people can get on the bandwagon and start stealing too.  

I'm getting sick of it.

Teenagers are the only group of people I know that hate the very law enforcement agencies that protect them.  Maybe we should deport a group of say a few thousand to an island somewhere and let them live without law for a while.  I'd love to see that - the little kiddies starting up their own little cult of the Lord of the Flies and having the media covering the entire thing.  We can have date rape galore, senseless violence, theft, I dunno whatever you like.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the whole nonconformity thing.  I'm just not for the brand of nonconformity that comes from a hypocritical group of people that believes in rebelling against the very establishment from which they get their ideas of defiance in the first place.  Remember, with Coke you can be like everyone else and rebel against the establishment!  

Give me a bluddy break!

I'm sorry for being stereotypical here.  I know there exist some teens who are not into the whole committing crime in order to show off scene, but I also know there are a lot that are.  And, in truth, it's about those ones that this is written.

"If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh"

-- Magus

LCBS
Senior Member
since 11-29-2001
Posts 683
Connecticut


1 posted 12-16-2002 09:40 PM       View Profile for LCBS   Email LCBS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LCBS

You try to cover yourself in the end by saying that this is not all teenagers....but when making such a general statement, its not that easy.

Yea, you are right, teenagers like to rebel.  Maybe thats the reason some of us have pink hair and some of us have nose rings.  Myself, my hair has always been blond and I dont need another hole in my head.  However, some of my greatest friends feel the need to express themselves through style, and good for them.  None of them do drugs.

None of them want drugs legalized, none of them steal, or cheat, or do anything wrong.

As a matter of fact, I have a friend who wears black lipstick and chains around her neck--we met in our Church group.

So maybe some teenagers think drugs are the greatest thing...but maybe some teenagers are just trying to find themselves...maybe I'm overreacting, but teenagers are still people.  All of us have different views, different beliefs, and different interests, and all of us are allowed to have these different beliefs.  No matter what, see us as individuals, not 'teenagers.'

It wasn't too long ago that I heard many stereotypes about poets and drugs too....Now how many of you get high every night?
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


2 posted 12-16-2002 10:54 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Fractal 007,

Weren't you the one getting on my case about generalizing?

While no doubt there are as many different teenagers as there are adults, I'm not sure how useful it is to say simply that everyone should be treated individually. Teens have specific dilemmas that simply can't be addressed by treating them as if they were adults. I've often gotten in trouble for taking a teen's word at face value and treating them the same way I would treat someone who is 25, 35, or 45.

It's not the generalization by the way that you addressed it is the generalization that you disagree with that bothers you. One suspects that if we generalized about good things, few people would complain that it didn't represent there friends and themselves adequately.

No, I think we have to be very attentive to specific teen needs and I'm not sure we're doing that adequately now. One quick example involves the education of a second language. In American, serious second language acquisition begins in high school. Roughly speaking, not far from puberty. This just happens to be the worst time to develop secondary language skills.

I think we need to rethink our current system with regards to this specific age group.

This, however, doesn't mean we should listen to them so much as act in their best interests. Teens, by their very nature, are authoritarians at heart.

  
vlraynes
Member Rara Avis
since 07-25-2000
Posts 9136
Somewhere... out there...


3 posted 12-17-2002 03:30 AM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes


Lisa...I don't think you were over-reacting
at all, and I think you made your point quite well.
I, for one, hear you and agree with you.    

Fractal...Yes, many teens do drugs.  So do many adults.
Yes, many teens would like to see drugs legalized.
So would many adults.
Yes, many teens commit crimes, whether to 'show off',
to support drug habits, or any number of other reasons.
Again...so do many adults.
I hear your frustrations, but I believe this this type of
generalization is not only unfair, but dangerous as well.
I work with many teens, in various capacities,
and I do know that not all are angels, but I also know
that not all of them are out to cause trouble either.
Again, I just think you were a bit unfair in your generalization.


Brad...I agree with part of what you have said,
but not all.  I do agree that we need to pay attention
to the specific needs of teens.  They should be treated
with respect and consideration, just as anyone else would be.

You said...

______________________________

"I've often gotten in trouble for
taking a teen's word at face value
and treating them the same way I would
treat someone who is 25, 35, or 45."
______________________________


I, too, have gotten myself in trouble by taking
the word of a teen at face value.  HOWEVER, I have also
gotten myself in just as much trouble by taking the
word of a 25, 35 or 45 year old at face value.
I don't believe that this can be based so much on
age, as on individual maturity and honesty.  Some people,
regardless of age, can be trusted and some can't.

You said...

________________________________

"This, however, doesn't mean we
should listen to them so much as
act in their best interests."
________________________________


I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here.  I believe
that we SHOULD and MUST listen to them.  How can we
effectively act in their best interests if we do not listen to them?
They are young people who have voices and, in my opinion,
they have just as much right to be heard as anyone else.

[This message has been edited by vlraynes (12-17-2002 03:36 AM).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


4 posted 12-17-2002 06:54 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Yeah, I knew that would upset some people. There are, however, definite neurological differences between teens and adults. What I mean by we shouldn't listen to them is that we shouldn't take their goals, needs, wants, complaints as necessarily leading in their best interests.

We shouldn't treat them as adults in a liberal society where one's needs, goals, desires, as long as they don't hurt me, are fine.

Age does matter. If someone 25,35, or 45 reacts the same way as a teen does (assuming the similar scenario), don't you then react differently then if you did if that person was a teen. For many of us, it might simply be walking away from them. I don't think we should do that.

But that would indeed be the result of listening to them, of giving them the same type of responsibility that we expect from fellow adults (Who may fail often of course).

Generalizing groups is not a bad thing, generalizing in a bad way is a bad thing.

Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


5 posted 12-17-2002 08:03 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
Generalizing groups is not a bad thing, generalizing in a bad way is a bad thing.
Isn't that a generalization?
Opeth
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since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


6 posted 12-17-2002 08:11 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

The entire premise for this rant is based on emotions and conjecture, in which the slippery slope is introduced.
fractal007
Member Elite
since 06-01-2000
Posts 2032


7 posted 12-17-2002 10:30 AM       View Profile for fractal007   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fractal007

I am inclined to agree with the emotions and conjecture argument at the end here.

Unfortunately I have not been placing enough value on logic.  I am placing too much value on emotion, and I think that is the cause of my little rant.  

Perhaps I should have phrased this differently, and written it as a rant about those few teens who do enjoy committing crime and various other nefarious things.

I am dealing with one teenager who is driving me insane.  But that is no excuse to make generalizations, covered or not.  

So, for this emotional and illogical rant, I am truly sorry.

"If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh"

-- Magus

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


8 posted 12-17-2002 10:48 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Generalizing groups is not a bad thing, generalizing in a bad way is a bad thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isn't that a generalization?

You bet it is. You wanna make something of it?

My chin is up, Chris, my chin is up!

Now, can we just say, no easy answers?

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


9 posted 12-17-2002 11:27 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

On the whole drug issue, there's a pretty interesting thread in philosophy about that.

For you, the legalization of drugs is a bad thing. However, that's not a given for all people.

'Teenagers are the only group of people I know that hate the very law enforcement agencies that protect them.'

Uh... no they're not? Go to a liberal cofee-house poetry reading sometime. Talk to a homeless person, or the very poor, sometime. Talk to my dad, lol... it's not an age-specific thing.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


10 posted 12-17-2002 12:43 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

It is because one's own culture is bred by the culture around her/him directly and indirectly.  We act as if our culture can be segregated so specifically for personalities and age groups to accomodate all things.  That we should be allowed to be very perverse on this level, as an adult, because we know we are making the choice and will choose otherwise "where it counts"  To specific degrees we can, but overall, we cannot.  Everything counts and everything has an influence on each other, if not directly, indirectly.  The perverse levels are growing on the adult levels, and though adults may keep them out of their predominant actions,  these levels are still touching on to the teen culture who are more vulnerable and ready to act.  Overall I just don't believe it is more teen than it is adult.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-17-2002 01:30 PM).]

Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


11 posted 12-17-2002 03:26 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
You bet it is. You wanna make something of it?
Nope. Just trying to push your buttons!
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


12 posted 12-17-2002 06:57 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Bored? It's easy to push my buttons, everybody knows that.
Wind
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 10-12-2002
Posts 3185


13 posted 12-17-2002 09:07 PM       View Profile for Wind   Email Wind   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wind

would it be too much to say that I am a teenager and have never touched any drug exept for when my sister lets me drink a little bit of beer. But that is all. Some of those generalizations are hurtfull. They'll wise up. And if they don't, they are going to get themselves killed one way or another, so why is it your problem? And another thing , who introduced those drugs to them in the first place? It all leads up to adults! If the parents raised their kids right, set a good examle, and allowed them to breathe a little more freely, they would be a lot happier. My mom tells me I can experiment if I ever want to, and you know what? I have absolutely no desire to. So think about that!

Never be normal!

Larry C
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 09-10-2001
Posts 10765
United States


14 posted 12-17-2002 09:20 PM       View Profile for Larry C   Email Larry C   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry C's Home Page   View IP for Larry C

So, since we're adults...teenagers are an easy target? (They happen to be my favortie people!) I find nothing in the original complaint that doesn't apply to adults.

My beef is with those who break the law. And guess what? I have a few beefs with those enforce it too.
Skyfire
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
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since 12-27-2000
Posts 5766
Riding


15 posted 12-18-2002 02:33 AM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

*blushes at Lisa's last question*
Okay, I don't get high EVERY night, but for the past few weeks, it had been pretty close to that.
I smoke pot. Does that make me a bad person? I don't think it does. None of the people I "go out" with steal to support their "addiction". If we can't afford it, we miss a week of going out.
I'd just like to point out that the cravings aren't "simple-minded". They're really there, and they're as real as you are.  Weed IS a narcotic, no doubt about that. It DOES have addictive tendencies.
Oh and I don't want it legalised. I'm vehemently opposed to it. Most of the people I go out with don't want it legalised either. *shrugs* Maybe the BC Interior is weird that way... (or maybe it's the amount of money that "BC Bud" brings into the province...) but that's a discussion for a whole other forum.

"it was cute, it was like he was shy and didn't want to make it too obvious"
~ Reena
I'm Rhondiforous!

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


16 posted 12-20-2002 08:01 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

'Oh and I don't want it legalised. I'm vehemently opposed to it.'

What kind of sense does that make? You're happier breaking the law? Why don't you want it legalized?
quietlydying
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since 06-10-2001
Posts 1316
the wonderful land of oz


17 posted 12-23-2002 06:57 PM       View Profile for quietlydying   Email quietlydying   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for quietlydying

i'm sure you're the expert on this topic, especially with yourself being barely out of your teens.

you have too many prejudices, my friend.  careful, or your head will explode.

last words?  weed should be decriminalized, and yes, possibly even legalized.  however controlled in a fashion that's similar to alcohol.  [age of majority to purchase or use, etc.]

/jen/


'i don't care if it hurts, i want to have control.  i want a perfect body, i want a perfect soul.'  [radiohead]

[This message has been edited by quietlydying (12-23-2002 06:59 PM).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


18 posted 12-23-2002 10:52 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

What does being an expert have to do with anything?
Skyfire
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19 posted 12-24-2002 04:13 PM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

Hush... it makes sense to me. Just because I use it doesn't mean I want my nephews to be able to pick it up at the local corner store.
I have my reasons, all of which I don't want to disclose.
neveah5
Member
since 11-22-2002
Posts 199
Ohio


20 posted 01-17-2003 09:54 AM       View Profile for neveah5   Email neveah5   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit neveah5's Home Page   View IP for neveah5

The whole weed issue i could go on and on about. first off I would like to say that weed is a plant. I think it should've been left out of the whats "legal and not legal" controversy all together. i personally think cigarrettes are more dangerous to the health than what weed is.  dont think ive ever met a person who smoked weed for 10 years or whatever that had cancer.

  Its also a matter of that the men and women who set what the rest of the country are allowed to do before they break the law, they are older and are sort of like the strict parents. some people choose to rebel against them. if they werent so strict i almost wonder if people wouldnt be so quick to do what they do. to some, breakin the law is a thrill. some its a way of life..how they choose to survive. I smoke weed on occasion. I enjoy the way it makes me feel, and it can be somewhat addictive if you let it get to that point. I think the weak let it get to that point where they are stealing to get weed..its so easy to find it i wont understand why people need to steal to get it.  I think the bigger issue is drugs like cocaine and heroin...maybe even party drugs like exstacy. those drugs are so much more damaging and addictive. I worked with a woman whose son was on crack and her family would have to go look for him at well known crack houses in dangerous neighborhoods at least once a month and bring him home. This man would give his mothers cars to these people just for crack. She finally called the police on him when he stole checks from her..only to turn around and bail him out of jail.

On the generalizations of teens, yes i agree with the fact that teens and adults all make the same mistakes, take wrong turns, break the law, back stab, lie, cheat, steal...i could go on and on but i wont. we are human. human beings do bad things and make mistakes. some seem less than human when they do such things as cut a 9 month old fetus out of a womans body..but they are human none the less. so i guess i can generalize and say that the human race is made up of cruel disgusting people who hurt and kill each other for kicks. is that true? no. i have a hard time smashing a bug on the pavement. i cry when animals get hurt or killed.

i wish i could go on but ive ranted enough for now.
Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


21 posted 01-18-2003 05:16 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

Neveah - just how many people have you met with cancer then?? Just like to know where you get your authoritative statistics from

Kellie_Cantrell
Senior Member
since 05-22-2002
Posts 1680
Washington State


22 posted 01-18-2003 01:40 PM       View Profile for Kellie_Cantrell   Email Kellie_Cantrell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kellie_Cantrell

hmm, way to lose points with the teens, about 25% of teenagers arelike that, the rest of us are awesome and anti-drugs... heck we even have clubs like
SADD- students against destructive decisions
students against drunk driving
A NO USE club You use you LOSE
Jaime
Unregistered


Washington State


23 posted 01-18-2003 04:15 PM       Edit/Delete Message     View IP for Jaime

I'm a teen, but I'm not offended by your generalizations because I'm not what you have described. I've never done drugs and I'll admit to thinking that a lot of the reasons people have for doing drugs are stupid. A friend of mine does drugs because it makes her feel grown-up. I told her to get a job.  Another friend did just about every drug she could get her hands on because she was unhappy. I told her to find a hobby. Everything seems reasonable at the time, but later.. well, perspectives change.

Teenagers are at a particularly awkward time in their lives where they are experimenting and trying to find their place. A year ago my brother looked like a Backstreet Boy.. now he is obsessed with Nirvana and punk bands. Looking back he is grossed out by how he used to dress and what he liked, but at the time it felt right for him. Granted, clothing is far from being drugs, but it's just an example.

Oh, and I don't see anything wrong with speaking out against things that you see as being unjust. I don't feel that it's right for a man to get off from murder and rape with less than a life sentence simply because "he had a rough childhood"... which is what the defense attorney said in court.

Drugs will always be around and people will always have their reasons for doing them. And what people don't understand.. they will always attempt to destroy...

Shiva went on break now look at how much it's gonna take to make this place a space where we can breathe.

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


24 posted 01-19-2003 05:48 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Skyfire-

Why wouldn't you want your nephew to be able to pick it up at a corner store? Is he underage? Because, y'know, stores ID. What's the difference between the corner stores and his friend's house?

His friend won't ID him.

I guess I just don't understand why you would say it's okay to do something, but then promote keeping it illegal. It's like you're saying it's a bad thing, but it's okay to do. There's a pretty blatant contradiction there.
 
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