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Passions in Poetry

This really burns my biscuits...

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Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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Southern Abstentia


50 posted 12-07-2002 12:21 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well I was kidding about being a Roman Pagan... I'm agnostic about those gods too... lol
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


51 posted 12-07-2002 06:02 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

What to do? What to do?

But, Denise, I think you've already answered that. Telling someone that they shouldn't be offended, as Magicmystery mentions, is the wrong way to go. It's an infinite regress because the original complaint is that you shouldn't offend them.

Why not ask why Chistmas is offensive?

It's not part of my religion.

And what religion is Christmas a part of?

All Christian religions.

But that's not true. The Greek Orthodox Church doesn't celebrate it on the twenty-fifth.

The argument will continue and continue, but at some point the general concept that we can respect others' beliefs and still have our own can come out. At that point, we can discuss the lack or recognition of other religious holidays.

Would you support tax dollars to subsidize the festival at the last day of Ramadan in a Muslim community?

Sure, why not?

I think we can argue, contest, and discuss many PC issues by giving them recognition (That is, listening to what they say and trying to understand the reasoning behind it.) rather than recoiling with, "I don't care what they say."

Unless the very idea that you should care isn't important to you.

The trick here is not however bowing down to principle or accepting a principle, but in figuring out if it pays to discuss this. In a general sense, I don't think it's worth discussing the renaming of Chrismas (It's absurd). In a specific sense, a community sense, it may be however, if kids can't go see a Christmas Carol -- because one atheist has never read that book and is offended by the title or whatever -- then that means it's time to start talking.

There's a difference between feeling victimized because you are are Christian and then venting about it to a predominantly Christian crowd and acting on Christian values such as compassion, care, and commitment.

I don't know, why don't Christians put there time and effort into compromise and conversation rather than resentment and insulation.

  
Denise
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52 posted 12-07-2002 08:52 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Brad,

quote:
Would you support tax dollars to subsidize the festival at the last day of Ramadan in a Muslim community?


This is an easy one! Nope! I'm not in support of tax dollars being used to subsidize any religious festival. In fact, I'm not in support of too much spending when it comes to tax dollars. I'd like to keep much more of it in my own paycheck!

quote:
I think we can argue, contest, and discuss many PC issues by giving them recognition (That is, listening to what they say and trying to understand the reasoning behind it.) rather than recoiling with, "I don't care what they say."

Unless the very idea that you should care isn't important to you.


You're right. My anger got the best of me in my original post, stating that "Christmas ain't going away, so deal with it." That was a brusque and unloving remark. I guess heavy-handed behind the scenes tactics is a major trigger to my temper, no matter the topic, that has to be dealt with. Thanks for helping me see that, Brad.

quote:
There's a difference between feeling victimized because you are a Christian and then venting about it to a predominantly Christian crowd and acting on Christian values such as compassion, care, and commitment.


You're absolutely right, Brad. My focus should be on compassion, care, and commitment, and not on other's actions that may offend me.


quote:
I don't know, why don't Christians put there time and effort into compromise and conversation rather than resentment and insulation.


I'm sure most do, or try to. I'm afraid that I haven't represented Christ very well with my poor attitude. I'm sorry, everyone.

  
Brad
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since 08-20-99
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Jejudo, South Korea


53 posted 12-07-2002 10:50 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Ah, Denise, am I the one being heavy handed now?

I thought I was just elaborating on what you said.

On the other hand, do I think I have the same responsibility, being a non-Christian, secularist, as that of Christians?

You bet I do.
Denise
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54 posted 12-08-2002 01:32 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

No, I didn't think you were being heavy-handed at all, Brad. Your statements just made me realize that my focus had come way off course due to my own anger at a perceived injustice. I suddenly saw myself as Peter swinging his sword, lopping off the ear of the centurion. And then I saw Christ (in the face of real injustice), healing the centurion, and then allowing himself to be arrested. Then I remembered I  Corinthians 11, I think, the Love Chapter, "Love bears all things, hopes all things, believes all things...". I was behaving like Peter and not at all like Christ and I certainly wasn't bearing anything very well at all.

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing something that's bothering you, but there's no excuse to do it angrily with an unloving attitude, which I did, because I didn't stop to chat with Him about it first.

Upon further reflection I realized that Christ cares more about the love we express to others (even to genuine enemies, let alone to people that we don't happen to agree with politically or religiously) than about the name of a holiday (duh!). Geeze, He never even asked for a holiday to begin with! So in that light, I can't think of a bigger non-issue to have gotten all worked-up over, anyway.

Thanks again for helping me see the issue in its proper perspective, Brad. I guess I'm just a slow learner. I wonder if there will ever come a time when I don't have to keep relearning all the same lessons over and over again? Knowing me, probably not!
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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Southern Abstentia


55 posted 12-08-2002 09:29 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

note to self -- readjust Denise's respect quotient up 72 percent.  
Denise
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56 posted 12-08-2002 04:11 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thanks for helping me a feel a little less schmucky, LR.

Happy Holidays, everyone!
Balladeer
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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


57 posted 12-08-2002 07:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

now if only we can get you to apologize for defending Andy Rooney...
Denise
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58 posted 12-08-2002 08:09 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

ROFL

Probably the best I can do about that is to tell you that I'll always love you best, Michael!


Balladeer
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59 posted 12-08-2002 08:31 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

That works for me!!
Denise
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60 posted 12-10-2002 04:17 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

majnu
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since 10-13-2002
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61 posted 12-12-2002 08:41 PM       View Profile for majnu   Email majnu   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for majnu

My Parents went to school in India. There many students get break for 3 different new years, Christmas, Easter, Eid, The Major Sikh Holiday (sorry I do not know what it is called), and for 2 other Hindu holidays. Sure their breaks were shorter than here, but that is not the point.

The point is that rather than stop celebrating things they celebrate everything! Even here our Sikh friends and Hindu friends call to wish us on Eid, and we call to wish them on Diwali and other Holidays.

Its these dumb buggers who need to be shut down.

-majnu
--------------------------------------
Timid thoughts be not afraid. I am a Poet.

[This message has been edited by majnu (12-12-2002 08:44 PM).]

 
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