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Passions in Poetry

peeved at multiple posters ...numbers game

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Magicmystery
Senior Member
since 02-13-2002
Posts 935
Windsor, Ontario, Canada


25 posted 09-12-2002 12:08 PM       View Profile for Magicmystery   Email Magicmystery   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Magicmystery's Home Page   View IP for Magicmystery

a great write especially for a "few lines that popped out straight"

there is nothing wrong with being spontaneous.... but I could suggest that they save their work and spread their spontanaity out a bit more to fill in their dry spells (not that they seem to have many of those)
I will be examiming other forums for my future posts.... Others have been too disenchanted by recent events to try anymore.

Cherish the good memories of the past and look forward to the adventure called Tomorrow.  
But above all... be kind to yourself today.
http://home.c

Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


26 posted 09-12-2002 03:24 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

I am peeved at multiple complaints more than multiple posts.

I question anyone's assumption that they know my motivations for posting anything here. And all poetry is subjective. What is bad to me might appear good to you. And I do pick and choose sometimes who I read, since I am not here 24/7, but do have a life. I understand your complaint, but don't think there will ever be a good solution short of limiting the number of poems one can post, to say, maybe 1 or 2 a week?
I prefer to buckle up my seat belt and hold on tight in the open forum. Sometimes I stay outta the fast lane, and sometimes I just put the pedal to the metal, so to speak, and go for it, whether anyone reads or not.
I don't pay any attention to numbers.
Marshalzu
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 02-15-2001
Posts 4465
Lurking


27 posted 09-12-2002 04:49 PM       View Profile for Marshalzu   Email Marshalzu   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marshalzu's Home Page   View IP for Marshalzu

How can you tell what is good and what is not a good poem until you have read the poem?

Andrew


"I still feel the pain in my heart, what once was pure is now diluted" - Biffy Cylro

[This message has been edited by Marshalzu (09-12-2002 05:59 PM).]

Magicmystery
Senior Member
since 02-13-2002
Posts 935
Windsor, Ontario, Canada


28 posted 09-12-2002 10:45 PM       View Profile for Magicmystery   Email Magicmystery   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Magicmystery's Home Page   View IP for Magicmystery

LoL... .Midnightsun.... believe me, we all need some form of seatbelt in there.

Andrew, that's just it.... I do read them.... it is definitely a quantity over quality thing going on... and that brings up another point, because I READ alot of other posts, and comment, I do know it when I smell something rotten.... leaves me wondering when I find someone hovering at the top.... just posted within the last 5 minutes and I take the time to read their poem.... but someone has slipped in there still faster with a one liner that I see over and over.... not only do I think they are posting this way for the numbers but I get the distinct feeling that they HAVEN'T Read the poem they are posting to ..."Powerful words here"  .....
{crossing my eyes and rolling them}
Whatever. {{snort}}
Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


29 posted 09-13-2002 08:05 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

MM.

Sigh. Yes, you have a point here, a point that is not unnoticed. It's an obvious conclusion to reach that one cannot read a poem in one minute (possibly less) and write 'powerful words' with any sincerity. Blindingly obvious even. Perhaps that feels unfair, perhaps that blatant display of what truly seems like insincerity makes you want to throw your mouse at the screen in disgust (hm..I wouldn't mind throwing my screen somewhere as well right now...those cookie things...). At any rate, with all of those feelings roiling away inside I just want to ask you to think about a couple of things.

Maybe the member/s who do reply so instantaneously are not truly intending to be insincere. Perhaps, for whatever reasons/capabilities of their own, it is sincere for them. Perhaps they come here for comfort, for friendly interaction. Perhaps the words they see on the screen are their daily human bread. Perhaps by replying so often, they are merely reaching out. Perhaps they haven't been taught social graces, perhaps their intellects cannot internalise the gist of a poem's message. Perhaps they just selfishly want to see the number under their name grow. Perhaps a growing number makes them feel like they belong.

The thing is, we don't know. We can't just assume a person is being insincere, just because we see behaviour that smacks of insincerity to us.

One could always ask the offender/s. Or let it go, and accept it as behaviour that is pretty much inevitable with the amount of people who visit this place on a daily basis.

Hugs, I know you're frustrated.

K
Cpat Hair
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 06-05-2001
Posts 12075


30 posted 09-13-2002 08:37 AM       View Profile for Cpat Hair   Email Cpat Hair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cpat Hair

One line replies... ( laughing)

I read and comprehend very quickly thank you..my responses are often as quick... high speed data lines for a connection do make it a bit easier to cover a lot of poems in a short time period and often will read a poem, leave and then come back and comment. My comment may only be "I enjoyed"

A one line reply I myself find quite appropriate...

Short poems.... minimalism, Haiku, etc. are legitimate forms....


Short tempers.... are plentiful

Short attention spans... are expected and taught by our constant news bite, 30 second commercial media.

Short circuits... happen when one gets their wires crossed and can lead to overheating.


Have you checked the insulation on your wires lately????


Short lived... aren't we all?

Short memory... what it seems many of us suffer from when it comes to the good things

short sheeted.... what I sometimes would like to do to people who complain a lot about trivial things.

Short sighted...  When we fixate on something in front of us and fail to see the larger or long term picture.
There are lots of shorts...
there are lots of things to complain about...


unfortuanetly this post and this chain of conversation does not fit the short model
Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


31 posted 09-13-2002 09:23 AM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

Ron? ...
Im a moth..my wires are always overheating
rofl
(thank you for your wired wisdom)

Some people are "givers"...some are "takers"...and the majority of the rest fit just fine somewhere in between.
(even the short ones)

I have a personal reply rule:

Reply as you wish others would reply to you...set an example with your actions.

Those who are here for the love and respect of poetry and poets know a sincere reply when they read one...they know whether or not the poem has been read.
Numbers get real boring after awhile ... poetry doesnt.


Peace to Poetry Land


Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


32 posted 09-13-2002 09:42 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


Just a comment...

By way of response, I have to admit, the only ones that are really reading THIS thread are overall the ones that give polite, intense, long, intelligent, witty responses to begin with.

The ones that also give all of the above that haven't responded yet just haven't had time to get here to do so because they are busy handling moderator/admin responsibilities...and/or are dealing with life in the real...

I'm sorry you're distressed by a few who respond as they do.  Perhaps, as pointed out before and above, they are doing the best they can.
suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 07-29-99
Posts 20770
on the threshold of a dream


33 posted 09-13-2002 11:28 AM       View Profile for suthern   Email suthern   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suthern

Just a couple of thoughts... brief ones... my thinker is on strike. *S*

I find it hard to criticize anyone who responds to my work... they have given me their time and attention and I appreciate that, whether the response is long and in depth or a simple smilie.

Some of my replies are fairly lengthy... others are a simple "I enjoyed this." Both types are sincere.

Also, there have been times when I've been in a place and position where I could read but not reply. In such instances, I've written out the poem's name and author and my response to it on a sheet of paper... so that when I AM able to respond, a few quick searches mean a lot of responses in a very short period of time... The reading was leisurely, the responding was not.

And last, there are times when I have no time... but I don't feel I owe anyone an apology if I pop in quickly to respond to a friend's work without doing a lot of reading.
Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


34 posted 09-13-2002 12:30 PM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

well I have come back to discuss the speed of responses in some cases blah blah...

there may be exceptions... like me  

I read very quick... normally I devour about 60 to 80 pages of a book in an hour and I do take in most of it too... For instance consider the book I am currently reading: "the lord of the rings" by jrr tolkien.. I am so much into the story that I just read and read and read... I covered the first 325 pages (out of about 1100) in one sitting from 9 am to 2 pm on a day when I was ill and at home (this wednesday)... that's 65 pages of small font in an hour, if my maths is right... but some books are written that way... they just dance into your heart, soul and mind... The same goes for poems... Some of the poems (I shouldn't call them that maybe) I write are written in less than 5 and they are even more than 20 lines longer... (so what I type fast, still not as fast as the thoughts flow)

and some of the poems I have read (in fact quite a lot of them) are so easy to read, that they come right in with beautiful flow and simplistic thoughts (and they are meant to be such) ... these can indeed be read and replied to (if it means something to the reader) in a couple of minutes...

there might always be a few who just cut past the same replies to all the poems that they encounter (to what end, I do not know!)... but it is very difficult to judge the sincerity of a response, and I think should not be even considered as a task to be done. Some one has posted a reply, it has boosted a poem from wherever it stood to the top, whereby some other reader has a chance to look at it, more thoughtfully perhaps, maybe finding an inner meaning and then maybe not even responding, but at least that passerby has spend a time reading your work and as most often happens shall come back to reply to some other poem of yours ro even write an e-mail of how your poems are taken in by him/her...

so my honest point of view... read and be read, write and perchance be quoted, respond if you feel like, but don't feel desolate if you are not responded too...

and as my thought now goes...

today I shall read
for tomorrow my sight could be weak
today I shall speak
for tomorrow my voice could be drowned
Today I shall swim
for tomorrow the tide may arise
today I shall act
for tomorrow it might be too late
and so on and so forth
go the advices
of todays and tomorrow...



Thanks for all this... it has stimulated my brain (I think!) ...

Regards to all in this wonderful Po-e-tree land...
Sudhir


[This message has been edited by Sudhir Iyer (09-13-2002 12:31 PM).]

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


35 posted 09-13-2002 02:01 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I think the thing here is that you have to accept that you can't change the nature of human interactions as a whole. You can do so with your personal interactions- like I said, you can choose where you post, or you can add a request specifically for people to explain what they did like, or didn't, or why the liked it, etc... it doesn't have to be critique to be in-depth.

You could ask the person, like Severn said... there's no quicker way to understanding... and I read the introduction to Voices on the Web by Ron, in which he said that one cannot hate what one truly understands. I think there's a lot of truth in that statement.

Or you could set the example to people like Janet Marie said... look at someone who does a quick reply that you don't find much in... and go give them a deep, insightful reply... they might realize how good that feels, and start reciprocating the time spent.

Now... I stay out of the 'clique-y' forums for the most part, unless something really catches my eye, simply because I have a short fuse, and I'd react much the same as you do. I do think it is fair to critique a person's reply to you... so, MM, I personally don't think you're being rude. I see your point. I agree that in many cases, what you are explaining is probably true- but... if we all took the time to examine the reasons we post and reply here, I think the animosity toward the nature of the 'reply machine' would kinda fade away... or at least become more constructive than destructive.

Unfortunately, we all don't have that kind of time, so it is often easier to gravitate towards areas that seem to focus on the type of interaction we like. That's why I am constantly in the Discussin/critique forums... I thrive on discussion, I love debating things (not so much when it turns out I'm wrong, heh heh, but it happens), and I really think there's a lot to learn in listening to others' opinions, and contributing ideas to a discussion... so, the best advice I could give anyone would be to simply evaluate what you are looking for, and find the forum that best suits it.

I did not design this game, I did not name the stakes
I just happen to like apples, and I am not afraid of snakes.

-Ani DiFranco, "Adam and Eve"

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


36 posted 09-13-2002 05:25 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
And, regarding the multiple posting 'newbies,' no, nobody probably did inform them.

Sign up a new username. Use test0000 (where the numbers change, and I'll know I can safely delete any users that start with "test"), and then read the email you receive. Sadly, you will probably be one of the FEW who read it, because it's obvious a lot of newbies don't.

But that's not all bad, either. If you come here just to post your own poetry, of course, a half-dozen from one person real close together is going to be irritating, but it rarely last very long. And if you come here to actually read good poetry, you might just feel it doesn't last nearly long enough. I would dearly love to eliminate the bad poetry and impose no limits at all on the good, but I'm not nearly smart enough yet to tell the difference. Probably just as well, too. Because the people who come here to learn tell me that even the bad poetry serves a valuable purpose.

quote:
This is a social site as much as it is a poetry site, and as such, it is in "the nature of the beast" that cliques are formed, and friends reply to friends. So... you can fight it... or you can just remove yourself from it.

Third alternative? Become the bridge between a couple of those cliques.

Put another way, there are those who join cliques, those who refuse to join cliques, and those who choose to simply ignore cliques. The first limit both themselves and the forums, while the latter accept no limitations.

quote:
I am peeved at multiple complaints more than multiple posts

Complaints are GOOD things. Those who complain obviously care. We don't have to agree with the complaint, but we definitely have to listen to it and acknowledge it.

However, if we're going to examine the motivations of those who reply, it can certainly be no less valid to examine the motivations of those who complain about those replies.

True story.

We've had our un-bump feature for quite some time now, whereby a Member can reply to their own originating post without bumping the thread to the top. About a week ago, while reading through Open, I noticed it was being subverted by one or two people. Some were intentionally using an alias to bump their own poetry, and a few were using even less obvious tactics. I changed the programs so that a thread couldn't be bumped, not just by the same Username, but by the same computer.

Two days later, I received an email from a very irate Member, complaining that she and another Member shared the same computer and were now unable to bump each other's poems to the top. I didn't bother to reply because she ended her tirade with a threat to leave pipTalk if I didn't fix the problem immediately, and I don't respond real well to threats (that's my first understatement all month). Still, even though I largely ignored the email, it has preyed on mind for several days.

People come to pipTalk for a lot of different reasons, and I've always said that every single one of those reasons is valid. There is NOTHING wrong with coming here just to get attention for your writing. If that's the only reason they stay, however, they probably won't stay long. There are tons and tons and tons of people reading poetry here, probably more than anyone realizes, but relatively few who habitually respond to what they read. The Open forum is like buying a magazine at the newsstand, and every time you open it up it has magically updated to a new issue. There's nothing wrong with wanting your poem to be in two or three consecutive issues of the magazine. That's human nature. It only becomes wrong when you are willing to sacrifice someone else's spot to do it.

There are many different reasons people come to pipTalk and all of them are valid, but I'm going to be honest and admit the software is designed to reward and entice those who want to learn. If your poetry doesn't get the response you think it should, maybe it's time to assume some responsibility for that instead of looking for someone else to blame. Are you targeting a wide audience or a very narrow one? Did you say something new or simply repeat the same tired cliches? Are you being too obscure or too transparent? Did you choose a hard-to-read font or make other presentation decisions that overshadow the poem? Did you check your spelling or even read what you just typed before posting it? If you really want a lot of replies, go find the poetry that gets a lot replies and figure out what they did that you don't do. Learn!

Please note that I am NOT suggesting everyone should write for a wider audience or only post poetry about unusual or even arcane themes. You don't have to use mixed case if you don't want to (thanks to e.e. cummings) and you don't even have to worry about spelling. Those are all individual decisions that each poet has to make for themselves. But they also have to realize that those ARE their individual decisions, as are ALL the other things that determines how many replies they get. I'm not saying you have to change your decisions. I'm just saying, until you accept responsibility for them, you don't even have the choice.

A poem is a child of the heart, and it's normal we'd want our children to fare well. But once they leave the nest, they have to rise or fall on their own merit. The parent has done all they can for that child, and at best can only vow to do better with the next.
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


37 posted 09-13-2002 05:31 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


Well said, Ron.  Thank you.
Toerag
Member Ascendant
since 07-29-99
Posts 5839
Ala bam a


38 posted 09-13-2002 05:45 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Well my son rarely posts here, I use HIS computer....(and frankly, if he replies to one of mine it's usually one of his 'smart-donkey' replies to me and I'm glad it doesn't bump it up....(Yassee how I censored myself there Ron?)....I'm such a nice guy don't ya think?.....LOL
Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


39 posted 09-13-2002 06:31 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

quote:
I changed the programs so that a thread couldn't be bumped, not just by the same Username, but by the same computer.


This is why we call him the Wizard....
he sees all from behind that cyber curtain.

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


40 posted 09-13-2002 06:32 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

You are, indeed, a nice guy, Toe. Using "bump it up" is so much better than the alternative.  
Magicmystery
Senior Member
since 02-13-2002
Posts 935
Windsor, Ontario, Canada


41 posted 09-13-2002 09:04 PM       View Profile for Magicmystery   Email Magicmystery   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Magicmystery's Home Page   View IP for Magicmystery

Ron, You are correct and I stand corrected. Poetry is a child of the heart and I should be the last person knocking someone who is speaking from there.  There are more important things out there to focus one's energy and attention on.... that is why I haven't been in here all day.  I am living away from home right now and don't have a way of checking my email from here until my husband tells me that there have been more replies.... I wished the matter closed 2 days ago even though I popped back in last night to clear up some misunderstood points and created others.  Indeed we do learn from each other's poetry.  I wish now that I had never started this thread.... so much controversy over someones opinion and that  has been blown out of proportion too in the process of clarification. I have said my piece as well as many others. And mostly in defence and sympathy born of the frustration of someone close to me who has decided that removing herself from posting actively is preferable than the disappointment she has experience when her posts take that plummet to page 2 faster than ....... well you know.... and I will cease to try to discribe it anymore.  

Please close this thread

Sincerely,

Sherry
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


42 posted 09-13-2002 09:21 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Thread closed at request of poet.
Magicmystery will be notified of replies
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