How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 intolerance
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

intolerance

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Anvrill
Senior Member
since 06-21-2002
Posts 718
in the interzone now


0 posted 07-25-2002 04:28 PM       View Profile for Anvrill   Email Anvrill   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Anvrill's Home Page   View IP for Anvrill


So I'm naive. Forgive me that. But I have yet to understand why things like religion, nationality, skin colour, modes of dress, preference of music, and other such things make such a huge difference to people.

I'm Canadian. Half-American. Which is something that has given me no end of hell in the Canadian schooling system, because however tolerant and wonderful and polite and nice we espouse ourselves to be, the second the word 'American' is heard, people go rabid. Especially the kids. Even explaining to them that I have only set foot on American soil three times in my life and that I was born in the desolate wastelands of Northern Ontario (I mean, how more Canadian can you get?), it makes no difference. I'm branded as a foreigner, even though I've lived in this country my whole life.

Even in a fight with a close friend, he used it against me, with his habit of using song quotes when he can't find words himself. "American woman, get away from me."

Canada just got the status of the 3rd best place in the world to live (having fallen form last year's 2nd), with Norway and Sweden ahead of it and the States sitting at 6th. Our quality of life, rate of unemployment, life expectancy, and education makes this country the 3rd best to live in, according to an international inquiry, but we still can't even be nice to the people within our borders.

No country's really innocent of mindless hate and other such indiscretions. It makes me sick to hear what people consider to be humour, which is almost always a slur against someone. In Canada, the States and our own province of Quebec are favourites. Well, I do know a few idiots in the States, sure, but they're also my family. My very best friends have all lived in the States. A border doesn't make a person any different!

And because it's even the adults who get these things started, the children really pick it up. And any difference is proclaiming a field day for them. In elementary, I was The Fat Girl. Which is damning for any extent of a social life. Oh yeah, I was also The Smart Girl. Can't tell which is worse of a stigma. I went on the become The Freak because I wore an excess of black, and I eventually got sick of it and actually tried to become what they saw me as. Now I can at least tell myself when people are making comments that it's because I chose it to be so. Which is probably pure illusion, I know.

So what's our thing? Why are we so caught up on differences? A human being is a human being. We all have something in common. I promise you that. And I think we all need to swallow our pride a bit and figure out that we've all made mistakes. I know I've been terrible about what I call "preps", who are the populars in school, but now that I'm out of high school and have a year seperating me, I'm calming down about it and seeing them more objectively.

I'm just really tired right now. I don't think I'll ever understand this world.


written in blood before everything went black

JCV

[This message has been edited by Anvrill (07-25-2002 05:58 PM).]

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


1 posted 07-25-2002 05:31 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I don't think it's about location, nationality, status, or "good hair" vs. "bad hair"...

I call the phenomenon the "US" club. That simply means that anyone not present? Is fair game.

I agree, it disgusts me. But then I have this quandary about my own intolerance of the intolerant. (see why I'm nuts? I'm TOUGH on me... )

smiles to you, and of course, from a crazy French gal? I leave you with: "vive' la difference'!"

You ARE different. And I am so glad!
Toad
Member
since 06-16-2002
Posts 247


2 posted 07-25-2002 07:49 PM       View Profile for Toad   Email Toad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toad


I’m not sure whether you can remove intolerance from society as long as society itself exists, intolerance can be viewed as the assertion of belonging to a one social group attained by denigration of another. Attacking a particular religious belief or social ‘type’ by highlighting difference is just another way of proclaiming your own group preferences and beliefs.

Shouting “I am male” announces and affirms my group membership.

Shouting “You are female” confirms your group membership but also acts, by inference, to assert that your group is different and somehow inferior to mine (assuming the shouter is in fact male).

The human instinct and need to belong to a group creates the necessity to highlight the differences found in non-members, after all what’s the point in belonging to a group if you can’t tell members from non-members. Some groups manufacture such differences to aid recognition, tokens, totems and logos take the form of clothing, insignia or social habit to reinforce the claim and feelings associated with belonging that most people crave.

But what of non-conformists, those individuals who decide to live and act outside societies excepted norms, unfortunately even those people are claiming, however unintended, membership of a group recognisable by their dress or social habits or political beliefs. We are all members of groups and some groups are in direct social competition for membership with other, sometimes diametrically opposed, groups. In such circumstances asserting the advantage of belonging to one group by denigrating or highlighting the difference inherent in another would seem to make some sense, albeit potentially harmful.

Thanks for the chance to read and reply
Nicole
Senior Member
since 06-23-99
Posts 1896
Florida


3 posted 07-26-2002 02:02 PM       View Profile for Nicole   Email Nicole   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Nicole

I believe that it's more than possible to recognize a difference between one person and another, or one group and another, and have it be just that, a difference - not a bad thing, for sure.  Being different does not have to mean that anything other than that, is confirmed.  I can state "I am female, and you (speaking in generalities here) are male" and acknowledge the difference, but infer nothing but the fact that we are different.  Which is not the same as saying that we are different, and because I am female, and state that difference, therefore, you are inferior because you are male.  Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I think it's possible to celebrate the differences in people instead of denigrate.
bsquirrel
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Rara Avis
since 01-03-2000
Posts 8382


4 posted 07-26-2002 02:34 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

People are set in their ways.

Things -- any things -- outside the norm scare them. This means change, or acceptance. Acceptance means personal growth. Many fear it.

Having grown up with a medical/genetic condition that sorta sets you apart from others was, in a way, very useful to my mind. It let me think things through more and be more quietly aggressively and insistent than all-in-all histrionic or depressed like a few of my "normal" friends.

So, who knows? We all live and we all die. Some people just forget of the inherent tragedy in mortality -- and that everybody, because of that, is worth a bit of respect.

Mikey

She said burn ... together.
-TON

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


5 posted 07-26-2002 09:25 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

We're not caught up on differences, we're caught up on sames. That's the problem.

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


6 posted 07-28-2002 02:40 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I can't tolerate intolerance.
bsquirrel
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Rara Avis
since 01-03-2000
Posts 8382


7 posted 07-29-2002 04:32 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Congrats on killing the thread, LR. Heh heh.

She said burn ... together.
-TON

bsquirrel
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Rara Avis
since 01-03-2000
Posts 8382


8 posted 07-30-2002 12:11 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

*cough*

Said if I only could ...
-KB

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


9 posted 07-30-2002 01:56 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

wouldn't be the first time...

I'm a threadkill.... people are askeered of me
MidnightSon
Member
since 05-15-2002
Posts 328
between the gutter & the stars


10 posted 07-31-2002 04:52 PM       View Profile for MidnightSon   Email MidnightSon   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for MidnightSon

as hypocritically humorous as it is, i agree with local rebel.

it's our struggle for identity that leaves us all unknown

bsquirrel
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Rara Avis
since 01-03-2000
Posts 8382


11 posted 07-31-2002 04:58 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

I just like the term "threadkill."

Said if I only could ...
-KB

Irie
Senior Member
since 12-01-1999
Posts 1526
Washington State


12 posted 07-31-2002 06:47 PM       View Profile for Irie   Email Irie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irie

Intolerance?
I say Ignorance!

For people to treat you badly just because you're part American
is horse dung!

Lets see, I am Swedish, Indian, English and what ever else (who knows).
But I was born in America so what does that make me?
And if anyone treated me that way, for what I was or wasn't .....
I would give them a good ole' American POKE IN THE EYE!
Then I would wipe my hands clean, hold my head high and walk away!
(seems we should have a poke in the eye smiley) Hint Hint!

Anyway Anvrill, I agree with you. I will never understand why there are so many
on this planet that have to operate this way, but they do.

If you would like, I can teach you Eye-Poking Techniques!  
We can do Canadian Eye Pokes too, I don't mind!  


~Sheri

"The things that come to those that wait may be the things
left by those who got there first"





[This message has been edited by Irie (07-31-2002 06:54 PM).]

Toad
Member
since 06-16-2002
Posts 247


13 posted 07-31-2002 07:19 PM       View Profile for Toad   Email Toad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toad


As LR pointed out very succinctly earlier being intolerant of intolerance is a circular argument – you become the enemy so to speak.

Brad

Isn’t difference simply a result of the comparison of sameness to determine group membership?
Anvrill
Senior Member
since 06-21-2002
Posts 718
in the interzone now


14 posted 08-01-2002 05:08 PM       View Profile for Anvrill   Email Anvrill   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Anvrill's Home Page   View IP for Anvrill

Y'know, I don't understand this 'group' thing either. I mean, with me, if you see my friends walking seperately down the street, you'd never guess they spoke to each other. We're all different. So different, it's sometimes scary and I wonder how we haven't killed each other.

Sure, people with things in common are supposed to attract each other, but my best friend in the city first started talking to me when she asked if I was dangerous because I listened to harsher music and wore black. She was honestly scared of me.

But I honestly don't think I've been friends with more than two people who can be shunted under the same category of dress, beliefs, politics, or heritage, so at least my social situation is proof that not everyone groups up and shuts others out, y'know? If that just made any sense.

The loneliest words you'll ever know:
if only, if only it were so.

JS

Toerag
Member Ascendant
since 07-29-99
Posts 5839
Ala bam a


15 posted 08-02-2002 11:18 AM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

I can't tolerate L.R....and I ain't skeered of him either!!!....But I like him pretty well though?
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


16 posted 08-02-2002 11:58 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well if anybody aint skeered of me Buzzter it would be you.... and I'm daRn glad you like me... I'd hate to see what would happen if the two of us weren't on amicable terms...

now ... back to the thread... come to think of it.. I can't tolerate tolerance either...

It's a bad notion... tolerance... or intolerance.. it implies there is something wrong with the culture/race/ethnicity/religion being tolerated -- another failure of PC... this term sets up a bad proposition from the outset.  Acceptance would be more tolerable I suppose -- but it still doesn't get it..

Not real wild about inclusion either -- anybody have any ideas?
Toad
Member
since 06-16-2002
Posts 247


17 posted 08-03-2002 06:06 AM       View Profile for Toad   Email Toad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toad

Would belonging be better LR?

Of course by inference this presumes there are those who don’t belong, you’d need a label to highlight that group but then you’re just back where we started.

Anvrill

Sorry I didn’t get back to you straight away, I was hoping to find more time to reply at length but that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen so I’ve jotted down a brief expansion on the group thing.

Groups don’t have to be made up of people that dress the same or have the same political beliefs, take all the people born in America they all belong to a group called American, members of that group can be split into more groups – male and female for instance. Then even more – married and un-married – over 45 and under 45 and on and on.

Members of one group will almost certainly be members of another, such groups aren’t a problem until membership becomes the be all and end all. At that point two diametrically opposed groups use difference (or their own sameness) to identify the opposition, those differences are usually exaggerated can give rise to tokens of membership, though not always. Of course there are groups that claim tokens for their group simply as a means of celebrating their membership, lapel badges, car stickers etc. and there are groups that have no clear identifying insignia at all. Your group of friends would fall into that category (or group).

Intolerance may begin in the individual but without groups it can never be sustained or survive.


Thanks for the chance to read and reply

[This message has been edited by Toad (08-03-2002 12:11 PM).]

 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> intolerance Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors