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Passions in Poetry

Perceptions of what is profane

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Jamie
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since 06-26-2000
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Blue Heaven


0 posted 05-04-2002 11:19 PM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

Illegitimacy is overrated

Taking things in context is not.

Give the forums readers ( even the younger ones ) a little credit for being able to distinguish what is the profane use of a word that is considered slang in only one of its many definitions from that which is more benign.

* Something that is of irregular, inferior, or dubious origin

*Lacking in genuineness; spurious; false; adulterate; -- applied to things which resemble those which are genuine, but are really not so.


*Resembling a known kind or species but not truly such

*A child born out of wedlock

and finally

*Slang. A person, especially one who is held to be mean or disagreeable.


My use of the word which has the above meanings was meant for the first three listed, and as such was more true to the poem in which i used it and in my own opinion the word illegitmate did not do justice to the idea I was rendering.

sorry to be a bother but I really don't see how anyone would object to the use of it here.

thanks for the space to air my views

J

[This message has been edited by Jamie (05-05-2002 12:16 AM).]

Severn
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since 07-17-99
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1 posted 05-05-2002 12:12 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

Sigh...


do it properly hon...

~gentle slap~

K
Severn
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since 07-17-99
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2 posted 05-05-2002 12:25 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

better

heh

thoughts on this later..

K

Poet deVine
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since 05-26-99
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Hurricane Alley


3 posted 05-05-2002 12:46 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Jamie, unfortunately the software catches certain words. It's not smart enough to understand the meaning, only the sequence of letters.

I'm not sure if the software can be changed...
Jamie
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since 06-26-2000
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4 posted 05-05-2002 12:53 AM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

I understand that Sharon
My lobby is to have that particular word removed from the list.

Hope you have been well your kindness..

J
Christopher
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since 08-02-99
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Purgatorial Incarceration


5 posted 05-06-2002 03:28 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

http://piptalk.com/pip/guidelines/rules.html#Profanity

and i agree. this is an ongoing discussion, and one i am honestly starting to understand a little better from the admin point of view. for a while, we have been arbitrarily cleaning out edited words... but i think that some of that might change.

the important issue isn't (as noted) that the words are used (though i definitely think there are some that are inappropriate for the forums no matter what, due to social and cultural connotations) but rather HOW they are used.

denegrating a person is a strict no-no, because of the type of envirnoment it would lead to. there ARE some images i don't think appropriate for the forums...

but - there are times that 'profanity' can be useful, poignant, funny, almost necessary to the writing. i think the useful part fits your recent post Jamie, and think you should think about changing it back now.

my revised thoughts on this manner is to use your best judgement. as the guidelines say "should be considered a warning to the author to take a closer look at their choice of words or choice of forum" which tells me that if, after having looked at it you still think it should be there - leave it. there is ALWAYS the option of doing exactly what you're doing here Jamie - discussing the reasoning.

Chris
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


6 posted 05-06-2002 11:57 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Nope, I just don't think so. Profanity just takes too much away from the richness and power of the language.  Though I understand where you're coming from, I don't think we should budge on this one. At least officially.

Jamie
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since 06-26-2000
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7 posted 05-07-2002 12:24 AM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

Brad-
Do you consider the word of which we speak to be  profane?
just curious

J

[This message has been edited by Jamie (05-07-2002 12:25 AM).]

Sunshine
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since 06-25-99
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8 posted 05-07-2002 07:30 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


I know you asked the question of Brad, Jamie, but I'm going to offer two cents. As has been pointed out by you, the word in question offers up many ways to be used in our language.  Unfortunately, and most inconveniently, not enough people use it in the proper context most of the time, and instead, use it as profanity at their worst times.

Because of that, it is one of the filtered words.

You are a very good writer, and it is the hope that other good writers, such as you, would use their knowledge to come up with words that have the same impact, and are not something that would get caught up in the filter.  Because if we allow this particular word to come out of the filter, then we will have to address each and every word that is contained within the filter.

Bottom line...it's Ron's home.
Jamie
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since 06-26-2000
Posts 3219
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9 posted 05-07-2002 08:11 AM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

and a very good chef making Chicken Alfredo who is denied the use of chicken, can still make a very tasty Shrimp Alfredo--


all said in good spirits
Sunshine
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Listening to every heart


10 posted 05-07-2002 08:51 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


There y'go
Christopher
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Purgatorial Incarceration


11 posted 05-07-2002 01:07 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

hey brad - i'm asking for another elaboration. heh. WHY do you think that?

Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


12 posted 05-08-2002 12:06 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Because we can't control the reader. The word itself is already used as a form of profanity (perhaps bad word is more appropriate)-- no one denies this. If we use it in a poem, we have to realize that; we can't say, "But that's not what I meant, I meant it this way," because, essentially, we didn't fully understand the word we are using, right?  If we go down that path, we have to stop talking about secondary and tertiary meanings, we have to stop talking about the 'feel' of the poem.

Right or wrong, we have decided not to use these 'bad words' because people are offended by them -- I see no point in telling people that they shouldn't be offended, that we are using the word in the 'correct' way and therefore that's okay.

This means we are necessarily cutting out a certain part of the language, we are censoring ourselves, but that, strangely enough, also creates the opportunity for new ways of expressing ourselves and that's worth the burden, I think.

I like the somewhat ambiguous system we have now, though.

Brad
 
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