How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 i don't get it...   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  ]
 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

i don't get it...

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 04-30-2000
Posts 16920
Ontario, Canada


25 posted 07-10-2001 11:08 PM       View Profile for Kit McCallum   Email Kit McCallum   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kit McCallum

Well, I promised myself I wasn't going to analyze this Brad, because I know better than to debate you (you're too good, LOL)  What I can do though, is give you only "my" perception, my personal opinion ... not how or why others do or don't recognize post numbers or Passion's anniversaries.

I do not look at it as a competition ... but I do look at both number of posts and anniversaries as a representation of longevity, or permanence if you will. That may sound odd, but I very clearly remember being new here, and watched the ease and comaraderie with which many of the "older" members conversed (oh, so sorry for that "old" term, LOL)  By "old" I do mean a member with a lengthier membership 'or' a larger number of posts 'or' a combination of both.

As a new member, I was shy, vulnerable and felt very exposed when I first came here (those are personal traits, nothing to do with Passions by the way). I am not the type of person who shared their writings beyond close family or friends.  Those who so readily welcomed me into this home, and quickly made me feel at ease here, are the "older" members ... the same people I continue to see acknowledge fellow poets with open arms. A part of that acknowledgement since I began, has and continues to be, recognizing and congratulating poets for reaching various milestone posts or anniversaries.

As I got to know people better over time, I also came to understand that some of the congratulatory posts were also a way of encouraging newer members to venture out of "Open" where so many start and stay.  I don't think I ventured out of Open until someone told me I had a 500 post congratulatory thread in announcements. From Announcements, I discovered the Alley, from the Alley, I discovered Spiritual, from Spiritual, I discovered Feelings etc.

So why do "I" congratulate others?  It has to do with kinship ... with giving back what I know made "me" feel good ... what "I" appreciated, and made me feel special, welcomed and a part of a wonderful community. As I said ... simply put, it just "feels" good. I really can't explain it beyond that ... it just makes me smile, and some days ... that's all I'm looking for.  
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


26 posted 07-10-2001 11:43 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Ok Nan, I'm side-stepping all of the above because I first want to know your new "title"...

and secondly, because I'm an avid poster of "guess who hit this mark"....

which will probably throw Brad and those proponents of who don't like the number system

[I don't like the number system, but I'm not about to take it away from everyone else! - but if mine could be eliminated by a button, I would do so!]....

but I POST the "congrats to..." in Announcements because, guess what! For the most part, I can READ in responses and replies the sincerity behind the responses, I see a LOT of work put into poems, whether it be regarded good, great, or simply "that's nice"...the point is...

Passions is all about a family of friends...

where we can be honest and sincere,

cyber hugs are abundant...

we cry, rant, rave and have discussions of all kinds...most of which you cannot find in a family kitchen any longer...

and for some inane reason, I sincerely believe that a site like this one RIGHT HERE will bring back the interaction of a family kitchen....

and perhaps someday do a full circle back TO the family room/kitchen/den...wherever it was some of us had those great discussions with our family members....

but in this site...?  We just broadened our horizons.

As for the numbers?  To some, it shows a "hey, I belong" sense.  As for showing respect and consideration?  I think I can go back to Forum #1, where I was posting poem after poem, THANKING Passions for being here, thanking the members for their welcome...thanking them for just about everything including their wit, whims and humor.

Thank goodness this is the Alley.  I think I've had my first real rant.

[This message has been edited by Sunshine (edited 07-10-2001).]

Romy
Senior Member
since 05-28-2000
Posts 1226
Plantation, Florida


27 posted 07-11-2001 12:11 AM       View Profile for Romy   Email Romy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Romy

I don't know.  I just really liked it when people noticed and congratulated me for hanging in there after five hundred posts.  Then one thousand. It took me a long time to reach one thousand posts. When  people notice things like post numbers, or birthdays or other important events, It feels nice. It lets a person know that they are noticed here and not just another post on the board.  To me it adds to the feeling of being part of a community.  I enjoy writing, but more than that, I enjoy writing and receiving feedback in a community of my peers. I like the recognition. It makes me feel good. I enjoy commenting on the work of others and it feels good to encourage somebody to keep writing. It's not why I came here, but it's the reason that I've stayed.

[This message has been edited by Romy (edited 07-11-2001).]

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


28 posted 07-11-2001 12:12 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Brad, you almost seem to be suggesting that NOT having a high post count is a bad thing, even perhaps that it in some way discourages discourse. Exclusive? Marginalizes?

Saying something is good and worthy of congratulations isn't the same thing as saying a lack of that thing must be bad. I congratulated you on the birth of your new baby, but that doesn't mean I think less of Christopher just because he hasn't yet fathered a child. And it SURE doesn't mean I in any way covet your new status! Recognizing your accomplishments shouldn't be seen as diminishing someone else.

I have to admit I'd be much more concerned about this issue if the number of posts was the only way people were being recognized, or even if I thought it was a major way. But almost by definition (and there are always exceptions), our Members will appreciate people more for what they say than how many times they say it. I'd like to think most of our people are a little bit beyond high school popularity contests and realize the number of posts is only one of many indications of participation. Each of us contributes in our own way.

Because, let's face it - if a low post count is a bad thing, you are pretty much looking at the bottom of the barrel right here. Ain't no one been here longer than me.
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


29 posted 07-11-2001 01:01 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Brad-
'If the numbers are a tool, are they a good tool?'

It seems to me that if numbers are as unimportant as their defenders seem to think they are, it wouldn't be necessary to have a counter right under a person's member name!

In my opinion, the numbers (date registered as well as post numbers) are used to give a reader an idea of a person's place in the online community. When I read someone's post, my eyes almost always flick over- because it's there to look at. Would I search out the info in the person's profile? Probably not- I'm more interested in things like world location and hobbies when it comes to learning about people than how long and how much they've been posting. But, to me, any forums that have those little counters (some that have member classifications- such as jr. member, newbie, etc., that by virtue of the name itself indicate a certain naivete, someone who isn't 'broken in' or doesn't yet have the hang of things...) seem to be saying 'look here'. If numbers were not important, then what's the point of the freakin display?

Titia:
'For we, 'the numberpeople', do use the forums as a friendmaking tool. '

If you'll read my earlier posts more throughly before taking offense to a statement about myself and what this forum is to me (which was in no way meant to insult any 'number people', sorry if you got that impression) I said:

'Don't get me wrong- I respect the fact that this place is a community of sorts thru which people share their feelings, ideas, and writing- '

'but that's a whole 'nother can of worms, because I realize that some people have close relationships online and are much more attached to this forum that I am... and I can respect that. '

'once again, I am not attacking people with large post numbers, but simply the fact that these people may have honestly contributed something very special, and all they are getting recognition for is the quantity of contribution rather than quality.'

Also, you said: 'wich means that the one that's bothered by something others do, that one should take a look deepdown and ask themselves: Why?'

I believe I have done that, but let me be brutally honest with you and myself. I am half irritated to see so many presumably intelligent people delighting in their frolics in internet-land, and half-amused, especially by your bit of philosophy within your very heated response. If you would have been better off reading poetry, why aren't you doing just that? Because you are obviously bothered by what I have to say. So maybe you should take your own advice and figure out why what I have to say has everyone replying- I must be making a pretty good point to have all these responses in such a short time.

Ron:
I was talking about posts. I think anniversaries and birthdays are perfectly legitimate reasons for a congratulatory post. I never said a word against them. And also- it's already been established (to me, at least) that post numbers are important to those celebrating them. That isn't the argument- the argument is why are they so important, and why should they be? But while you have just acknowledged their importance to some, those very people who celebrate them are in this post swearing how unimportant those numbers are... why is that?

Kit:
I think it's really cool that you thank members through poetry and e-mail. Those are two very good ways of showing someone you care without placing such importance on post numbers. It shows that you actually care enough to spend more time on the person than saying congratulations and adding some smileys. But I can guarantee that if I am around long enough to hit the 500 or 1000 post mark and a bunch of people I have never spoken to tell me how wonderful it is to have me around, I will lose a great deal of respect for them. The whole thing just seems very trite, cheap, and insincere, like a simple "GREAT JOB!" reply to a poem. That, once again, is a different topic, but I feel that it has relevance.

Sunshine:
If you are posting the congratulations posts because of a person's sincerity, then why not congratulate them on that as opposed to their number of posts? It's just that simple. You say you would do away with the numbers if you could... then how would you congratulate people?

To everyone who keeps saying that the numbers are not important to them- actions speak louder than explanations- would I chew gum if I didn't like it? No. The numbers obviously hold enough importance to you that you feel the need not only to recognize them, but to defend yourselves for doing so... take Titia's quote with a grain of salt and think about that one.


everything's fine.

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


30 posted 07-11-2001 02:14 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I think anniversaries and birthdays are perfectly legitimate reasons for a congratulatory post. I never said a word against them. And also- it's already been established (to me, at least) that post numbers are important to those celebrating them. That isn't the argument- the argument is why are they so important, and why should they be?


My point was that there is absolutely no difference between the three.

Why should a birthday be a legitimate reason? A birthday is simply based on a number and certainly doesn't connote quality. If you wish someone a Happy Birthday, does that mean you don't appreciate anything about them other than their age? Instead of saying Happy Birthday to them, why don't you take fifteen minutes and tell them what you sincerely like about them as a person? Doesn't wishing them a Happy Birthday place undue emphasis on their age?

Using your own logic, how in the world can you possibly suggest that a birthday deserves a congratulatory post? Talk about trite, cheap, and insincere!

Sorry, hush, but if I discover it's your birthday, I'm probably going to wish you a happy one. Not because you've discovered a cure for cancer or written the great American novel, not even just because I like you, but rather as recognition of your existence and your importance as a human being. People matter, their contributions matter, and just about any opportunity to say so is justified. I probably won't ask your age, and I certainly won't get hung up on it. Because I know the numbers don't matter and my wish for a Happy Birthday will be just as sincere whether you are 19 or 99.

The numbers don't matter - but the acknowledgment does.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


31 posted 07-11-2001 03:40 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Wow, this has stirred things up more than I thought it would.

To recap:

1. I think celebrating the posts marginalizes a certain type of poster, not low posters as such.

2. I don't think there's anything we can or should do to change that except rant about it here.

3. I'm not, nor do I think Hush is, trying to criticize the posting practices of other members. We are simply saying that this practice focuses on a certain type of poster, not on another.

I want to avoid 'quality' versus 'quantity'  because I think it's too advesarial a distinction. Rather I think the difference is between those who believe in the quantity of posts over and above the quantity of the post. For some of us, the longer the comment the better. It gives us more to work with, think about, and so forth.

That is, we're talking about two different types of quantity, okay?

Kit,

Believe it or not, that was the best argument so far. Essentially, you're saying that this celebration WORKS. It's extremely difficult to argue against results. I just wonder if we can't create the same situation without the reliance on post numbers.

Sunshine,
A kitchen conversation full of smiley faces? I like the goal (if I understand what you mean) but I'm not clear how this emphasis on numbers helps those goals.

Romy,

"I'm not a person, I'm a number!!!"

Please don't take that seriously, I just couldn't resist. In a way though, you make a valid point. This type of celebration makes you feel good because you have been recognized. But how does it make someone feel if they have spent the same amount of time here as you have but are not recognized because they've spent their energies on long, detailed, involved posts whereas yours have been shorter (I'm not saying that one is better than the other, just that both have value).

Ron,

Interestingly enough, they do say 'congratulations' in both Korean and Japanese on your birthday. In a Confucian society, this makes a kind of sense because age is a bringer of privilege (and responsibility but that's usually muted). In America, however, unless things have changed pretty dramatically since last I was there, we say 'Happy Birthday.' Now, when you use this term, you may indeed mean certain things that go beyond the literal meaning of the phrase. That's fine.

But "Happy Birthday" cannot mean that someone is 'special' to everyone without seriously damaging the meaning of 'special'.

In a way, everyone is special and unique. I agree with that. But when you say to someone, "You're special to me." You are not saying that "You are the same as everyone else to me." You are practicing a favoritism (and there's nothing wrong with that). That's why people feel good, they are standing apart from the crowd. They count for something more than the 'special' that everyone is.

But this makes no sense when the term has become a social convention, when it is expected in polite conversation. It has to mean something different or it can't be used when you meet a stranger. It can't mean what you say or say what you mean. How could it?

The same goes for Happy Anniversary and Congratulations on a newborn baby (Thanks by the way. Did I ever say thanks?). Neither of these things imply that I am special; they  are showing me a form of conventional respect, not because the actions are unique,
not because Lynne is more important than another baby (except to me), not because my marriage is more important than someone else's, but because this is what we say in these situations.

Problems happen when we don't say them. In order to keep the social status quo, we have to say them. Nobody asks, "Why did he say happy birthday on my birthday?" They ask, "Why didn't he say happy birthday on my birthday?"

None of this takes away from sincerity by the way. Why question someone's sincerity if all he or she is really saying is that they hope you have a special day on a day that is, for the listener, special? The only way that sincerity becomes an issue is if it means more than what I have just described. Because by meaning more, you set yourself up for commitment (a commitment impossible to maintain), for expectation, and for disappointment.

By the way, I'm not very good at these social conventions. Probably because I spend more time thinking about them than I do actually practicing them. This is not something I'm proud of as these social conventions are important.

What does this have to do with celebrating posting?

I'll stop here because I have to go meet my wife at the market (social conventions and all that  )

Brad

PS Wait until I get into social pressure.    

Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 04-30-2000
Posts 16920
Ontario, Canada


32 posted 07-11-2001 07:26 AM       View Profile for Kit McCallum   Email Kit McCallum   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kit McCallum

The following link is not simply a result of this thread (though in that sense, I regret my timing) but rather, something I have sincerely felt prior to this discussion. I thanked Kamla via e-mail individually for a critique she gave of my work a few weeks ago, but please let me expand, and say the following ... in "Announcements":  
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum3/HTML/001183.html
Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


33 posted 07-11-2001 07:53 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan


I'll never go down in history as one of the great debators of all time... To me it's simply a civilized way to have an argument, and I happen to hate arguments... ERGO, I save my personal contentions for issues that are of extreme importance to me - Otherwise... "Live & Let Live"...

This point does seem to have shades of me about it, however...
quote:
But while you have just acknowledged their importance to some, those very people who celebrate them are in this post swearing how unimportant those numbers are... why is that?


So - Why is that?... Well - for me... It's entertaining... My life is full to the brim with SeriousNess... I much prefer FrivolousNess, and cavorting about this Passionate Place and being silly is GREAT sport.  I don't see this as a complicated issue.  I simply escape into a world where I'm surrounded by good friends (real friends, not just cyber sorts)... I really don't care how many posts anyone has made...

In actuality, the members who have been with Passions longest happen to be my dearest friends here.  I always enjoy making new friends as well, of course.  The information posted beneath our names that's most relevant to me, then, is the date we joined.  Interestingly enough, we seldom 'congratulate' each other for longevity here... hmmm - Perhaps we should do more of that??...
Miss Behavin'
Member
since 06-16-99
Posts 94


34 posted 07-11-2001 07:58 AM       View Profile for Miss Behavin'   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miss Behavin'

Oh Goody...

Does that mean that somebody will FINALLY congratulate me for SOMETHING???...

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


35 posted 07-11-2001 08:14 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Nan,
You're a genius.

That would solve my particular problems.

How more inclusive can you get?

I also think whatever problems might arise would take care of themselves.

Brad

PS And that means I can put off the rest of this stuff:

1. Why this process is and isn't a social convention.
2. Why social pressure exists regardless of denial.
3. Why frivolity is a particular form of control.
4. Why Americans seem particularly prone to this form of pressure precisely because they so adamantly deny that they feel it.
5. And I'm sure a whole bunch of other things along the way.

I'm sure I'll have to get through this stuff eventually but I'm glad it's not tomorrow. Parents are coming for a week to see the baby.
suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 07-29-99
Posts 20770
on the threshold of a dream


36 posted 07-11-2001 09:29 AM       View Profile for suthern   Email suthern   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suthern

quote:
The whole thing just seems very trite, cheap, and insincere, like a simple "GREAT JOB!" reply to a poem.


I've read this thread quietly for a while... from the viewpoint of someone who's been here through an anniversary of membership, a couple of birthdays and multiple "milestone posts" without any public recognition of any of the above... and without losing any sleep over that situation. *S* To be honest, I missed most of them myself. *G* And though I don't usually join the congratulatory threads unless it's the celebrant posting a poem, they bring a smile to my face.   If anyone's ever felt I'm slighting them by not joining the celebration, I don't know about it. Simply put, I like seeing people I admire having a good time... and enjoy the silliness, even if vicariously. I have enough seriousness to deal with daily!

The smiles the celebrations bring are erased, however, by having any response less than an in-depth review of a poem labeled "very trite, cheap, and insincere" right along with the celebrations. It may be another issue, but it was lumped in with this... and bothers me greatly.

Yes, you may consider "Great job!" to be trite... and you may think your work deserves more of a reader's time and effort than a simple response... but to immediately label it insincere????? I'm sorry, but that's an exceedingly sore point for me... NOT because I'm guilty of responding in such a way (though I am, unapologetically)... but because Passions has lost good people who were devoted to reading and encouraging poets simply because someone decided to talk trash about inane responses. These people have feelings and were hurt needlessly... and why???? Because someone CHOSE to dismiss the fact that their poem was read and enjoyed because they wanted more input, more analysis? Perhaps I'm wrong, but Critical Analysis and Philosophy (and The Alley *G*)seem to me to be the only forums that request/require some sort of analysis or debate.

We all have different things going on in our lives... some may have hours to spend online, others may have minutes. We each use the time we have as best we can. To question someone's sincerity when they've GIVEN your poem their time... time they could have spent doing other, perhaps more enjoyable, things is (to me) insulting... and a far worse "crime" than celebrating milestones could ever be!

And before I forget... and just to assure that my lack of sending congratulations doesn't become too much a habit *G*...

A belated CONGRATULATIONS to Miss Behavin' on your membership anniversary!!! LOL  

[This message has been edited by suthern (edited 07-11-2001).]

Titia Geertman
Member Ascendant
since 05-07-2001
Posts 5297
Netherlands


37 posted 07-11-2001 01:26 PM       View Profile for Titia Geertman   Email Titia Geertman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Titia Geertman's Home Page   View IP for Titia Geertman

Suggestion: if it annoyes people that other people are being congratulated for their so and so post, why not make a special forum for those kind of messages.

Ron, make a Congratulationforum and everybody is happy.

As for myself: I like to see how many posts I did post myself. Don't care about others.

It so happen't that I replied at the end of page 1, so I did see page 2 just now. So I'll reply step by step.

Titia:
'For we, 'the numberpeople', do use the forums as a friendmaking tool. '

If you'll read my earlier posts more throughly before taking offense to a statement about myself and what this forum is to me (which was in no way meant to insult any 'number people', sorry if you got that impression) I said:

'Don't get me wrong- I respect the fact that this place is a community of sorts thru which people share their feelings, ideas, and writing- '

'but that's a whole 'nother can of worms, because I realize that some people have close relationships online and are much more attached to this forum that I am... and I can respect that. '


I wonder how much you respect that cause in the same reply you wrote the following line:

But I can guarantee that if I am around long enough to hit the 500 or 1000 post mark and a bunch of people I have never spoken to tell me how wonderful it is to have me around, I will lose a great deal of respect for them. The whole thing just seems very trite, cheap, and insincere, like a simple "GREAT JOB!" reply to a poem. That, once again, is a different topic, but I feel that it has relevance.

I really wonder...

'once again, I am not attacking people with large post numbers, but simply the fact that these people may have honestly contributed something very special, and all they are getting recognition for is the quantity of contribution rather than quality.'

How do you know that's all they are getting, you judged only on the gratulationthreads, you maybe took a quick look at 'Open' and saw some, as you call them 'trite, cheap, and insincere, like a simple "GREAT JOB!' replies, you probably never stumbled upon the supporting, strait from the heart replies, never thought of private emails going forth and back if needed.

Also, you said: 'wich means that the one that's bothered by something others do, that one should take a look deepdown and ask themselves: Why?'

I believe I have done that, but let me be brutally honest with you and myself. I am half irritated to see so many presumably intelligent people delighting in their frolics in internet-land, and half-amused, especially by your bit of philosophy within your very heated response. If you would have been better off reading poetry, why aren't you doing just that? Because you are obviously bothered by what I have to say. So maybe you should take your own advice and figure out why what I have to say has everyone replying- I must be making a pretty good point to have all these responses in such a short time.


Yes it would be smarter for me to go back to 'Open' and so I will maybe, but that should be my own choise.
Yes, I am a bit bothered by what you are saying.
Yes, I have figured out why everyone is replying to what you have to say: cause they all (but one) disagree with you some way or other.
No I don't think that because you're getting all those answers in such a short time is making you point pretty good.

I recall on one of your replies before you said you just threw this question up because you had nothing else to do at that moment and to see what reactions you would get. Well, you've got plenty I'd say, so you must be satisfied quite a bit. But I myself, find no pleasure in rereading this thread.

You got what you were aiming for, serious answers, now let it be and let me enjoy my  WOW GREAT BEAUTIFUL for I'm really getting homesick for the smilies.

Titia


A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess...
Feel free to use the pictures on my website. http://communities.msn.com/Titiasplace&naventryid=100



[This message has been edited by Titia Geertman (edited 07-11-2001).]

inot2B
Member Elite
since 09-18-2000
Posts 2272
Alabama


38 posted 07-11-2001 01:36 PM       View Profile for inot2B   Email inot2B   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for inot2B

If it bothers anyone about numbers being put up showing how many posts, just don't look at them. I am here mostly to read and yes congratulate if I wish. Don't care how many posts you have. I refuse to argue over how this forum is set up. Ron invited us in and I think we should just enjoy.
Sven
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 11-23-1999
Posts 15611
Lansing, MI USA


39 posted 07-11-2001 02:30 PM       View Profile for Sven   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sven

You know, I had this really cool reply all set to go in response to this post. . . but. . . Iím just going to say a few thousand different words.

Hereís why (in my opinion) we congratulate one another on getting to new levels, and on Anniversaries and on other ďfrivolousĒ things like that.

We do it because we care.

When I started here, if you would have told me that Iíd be a part of this Community for more than a year, that I would have 10,000 posts, and that I would be named co-Editor of Digital Passions, I would have told you that you were crazy.  

But yet, here I am, here with these people, these fellow poets of mine; people that Iím proud and honored to call my friends, people that Iíve laughed with, cried with, and shared their highs and lows with.  Why?

Because we care.

Why do we have the numbers?  Why does it matter?  Does it really matter in the end whether I have 10,000 posts or 10?  No!!!  What matters is that Iím a poet.  Iím a member of this Community, this ďFamily of FriendsĒ.  And that I will be encouraged, congratulated, and yes, sometimes even berated by my fellow poets and friends.

Because they care.

Why do we have the titles?  Itís a rewards thing (again, my opinion follows).  Rewarding those people who have made this place a part of their life.  Rewarding them for their loyalty, their help, their encouragement to everyone thatís here, (and let me tell you, some of us take that ďencouraging poetsĒ thing to heart) their very presence in these Forums.  

And again, does it matter what my title is??  NO!!  What matters is that Iím here, and that youíre here, and that theyíre here, and that all of us together make this place what it is.  

Because we care.

So, do we really take the numbers seriously?  No.  Do we take our titles to heart?  (Iíve got to admit, itís a little cool being a Member Patricius, one of only a couple.  But, I didnít drive to 10,000 just to get the title.)  No.  

One more thing:  Do we have to over analyze this??  Is there really a reason to cast this into the light of intellectualism??  Exploring why we use numbers??  What would you have us use?  Stars?  Sticks?  Little smiley faces for every 1,000 posts??  

We use numbers because we use numbers.  That might just be a little too simple of an answer, but itís one that makes the most sense.  

Okay, Iím done.  Thank you all for your time, and now, letís return you to your regular reading and responding to poetry.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------    

To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.

brian madden
Member Elite
since 05-06-2000
Posts 4532
ireland


40 posted 07-11-2001 03:13 PM       View Profile for brian madden   Email brian madden   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brian madden

Hush......very interesting point. I think this could lead to a whole other serious of debates. Within all communities there are groups. I think alot of things have to do
with the time and effort put by a person into the site. People who have been at the site awhile will tend to be the focus of accouncements they are part of the backbone of this site. I think especially for new members it is hard to get attention due to the pace at which many forums move.

People tend to look towards names in terms of poetry, not everyone has the time to sort through poems and pick out the deep and meaningful poems and replies. Not everyone likes poetry that confronts and provokes some prefer more gentler poetry.

I don't even know if I am joining this debate or just ranting but Hush I appreciate the time you put into your replies in Crit Forum. It is a fourm that needs people who can give insight. After all we are here to write poetry and learn from each other, but even in paradise nothing perfect. People have their own agendas ( i don't mean this as a bad thing, it is just every one takes something different out of the site.)  



"Here I am in prison,here I am with a ball and chain There is whiskey in the jar-o" Traditional irish song.

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


41 posted 07-11-2001 03:26 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

I cant believe that a random act of kindness is being so over analized and
made to look Politically InCorrect.
Its the Announcement Forum...thats the kind of posts one should expect to find there...

and as so many here have tried to say..
Its NOT about the numbers...
its about RETURNING THE RESPECT GIVEN

No one should have to explain or justify saying thank you.

Feels like Im dancing with truth and wisdom
Precious rhythm you are my guide
These days are sacred, my heart is humble
Oh warrior show me the light

Sven
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 11-23-1999
Posts 15611
Lansing, MI USA


42 posted 07-11-2001 03:41 PM       View Profile for Sven   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sven

There are times that I wish I had Jan's gift for brevity. . . this is one of them. . .  



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.

Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 11-06-1999
Posts 43042
Florida's Foreverly Shores


43 posted 07-11-2001 04:46 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

quote:
i don't get it...

Well ... that's pretty obvious !

And if there were such a word as ludicrosity-
I might even join in the laughter !

As it is ... we do it because we recognize that 8 million times
a heart cared enough to reach out and touch others.

That's a whole lotta heart ! !
AND because WE think that matters !

Stick around ... we'll grow on you !
~*Marge*~


~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† noles1@totcon.com   ††††††††††††

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


44 posted 07-11-2001 06:07 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Guys,
I thought Nan had a great idea and a solution to this problem.

Why isn't that being addressed?

Should we intellectualize this?

Yeah, I'd say we have to. I honestly believe many people are missing the point.

And then someone else says, "No, you're missing the point."

And so on and so forth.

It is not about saying, 'thank you' and/or 'congratulations'.

It's about seeing the number of posts as a determining factor for contribution (although Ron's point is, I think, valid in that it's not the only way to show gratitude -- nevertheless, it has become a kind of ritual. I've noticed it, Hush has noticed it, and others as well.).

Simply put, it makes people who have different goals than you feel 'left out' of the game.

Now, I immediately want to say, "That's not true. I think the game is silly." I suspect that Hush would say, "No, I don't care."

But neither of these statements is quite true. In the back of my head, in the back of others's heads (I don't know about Hush)is a sense that, "Hell, I can get recognized for that if I posted 'Good job' on every post."

Is this feeling wrong?

Should we not feel it?

Should we simply not read the numbers and the congratulations?

Should we stop reading?

Should we stop conversation if it bothers us?

Believe it or not, I can understand why some people think this complaint is ridiculous. What I'm not sure of is whether many of the above commenters (some exceptions of course) have even tried to understand why this might, just might, be a problem?

Brad

PS Suthern, you make an interesting and, to some extent valid, point but I'd prefer to put that off for another thread. I always find it interesting that the 'heart' crowd is so easily offended when criticized but doesn't hesitate to criticize the 'detail freaks' for their, what was the word, ludicrosity.

Marge, didn't we have that discussion before?

Sven
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 11-23-1999
Posts 15611
Lansing, MI USA


45 posted 07-11-2001 06:41 PM       View Profile for Sven   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sven

quote:
It's about seeing the number of posts as a determining factor for contribution


Who sees it this way??  I don't. . . and I'm sure that a lot of other people don't either. . .

quote:
and all they are getting recognition for is the quantity of contribution rather than quality.


Wrong. . . absolutely, totally. . .wrong. . . when we congratulate someone, it's not because they've reached a mark, it's because they've taken the time to be here, they've taken the time to read, to encourage, to help out. . . and, being the people that we are, we like to acknowledge these at times like when the counter reaches a new set of zeroes.

quote:
But almost by definition (and there are always exceptions), our Members will appreciate people more for what they say than how many times they say it. I'd like to think most of our people are a little bit beyond high school popularity contests and realize the number of posts is only one of many indications of participation.


Indeed. . .

quote:
my eyes almost always flick over- because it's there to look at.


Then, in my opinion, you would be in the minority. . .becuase I can prove to you that probably very few of the people here notice the numbers right away.

EXAMPLE: Marge Tindal just put up her 18,000th post.  Now, who noticed that it was 18,000th??  Well, if you go back and look at the thread, you'll see that 10 members didn't say a word about it.  And that Lady in White did, but only after the fact, (and, probably because of this discussion, as did I.)

Why didn't they say anything??  Well, more than likely, it's becuase they didn't notice. . . does this make them bad becuase they didn't congratulate Marge?  Probably not, but, once they see that that was her 18,000th post, they will probably go to see in Announcements if someone else has taken the time to announce that, and post their congratulations there.

quote:
why are they so important, and why should they be?


Well, to speak it again. . . They're not. . . no one has said that they're important. . . but, being people, we like to know just what we're doing. . . where we are. . . not in relation to everyone else, but just for our own information and amusement. . .

quote:
We are simply saying that this practice focuses on a certain type of poster, not on another.


And what type of poster would that be??  The kind that just posts to get numbers??  Personally, that's not me. . . sure, I have a lot of posts, but, I don't do it to get the numbers. . . I do it because I like to do it. . . I post becuase I like to interact. . . that's why we're here. . . to post poetry, to have fun, and to interact with other poets from around the world. . .

quote:
And that means I can put off the rest of this stuff:

1. Why this process is and isn't a social convention.
2. Why social pressure exists regardless of denial.
3. Why frivolity is a particular form of control.
4. Why Americans seem particularly prone to this form of pressure precisely because they so adamantly deny that they feel it.
5. And I'm sure a whole bunch of other things along the way.


Thank goodness. . . this is what I'm talking about when I'm talking about intellectualizing things. . . what do any of these things have to do with the Celebration of postings?????  Nothing. . . not one single solitary thing. . .

quote:
Interestingly enough, we seldom 'congratulate' each other for longevity here... hmmm - Perhaps we should do more of that??...


I believe that we do that (and are doing that as well). . . and yes, I'll agree with the fact that number of posts isn't the same as longevity, but. . . does someone who has a lot of posts in a short time contribute any less than someone who has a lot of time here and not as many posts???  

(I may have just agreed with Brad in a way with that comment. . .but, that's just me. . . I tend to see too many sides at once. . . )

Ok. . . next round!!!  

---------------------------------------------------------------------

To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


46 posted 07-11-2001 08:07 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

I have two minutes:

Brad and Hush - a question: You are both obviously well acquainted with social theory, so you both obviously know that surely 'ritual' within any community is unavoidable, and usually essential to the running of the community. Seriously then - why should passions be any different?

K
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


47 posted 07-11-2001 08:25 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

"does someone who has a lot of posts in a short time contribute any less than someone who has a lot of time here and not as many posts???"

This is the crux, isn't it?

Again, I ask that you, Sven, and everybody else try to understand why it would bother some of us.

Again, if the numbers don't matter, if the feeling is what counts, what is wrong with at least trying to understand our point?  

Brad
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


48 posted 07-11-2001 08:34 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Severn,

Yes, I agree. Ritual is essential for any community. I don't understand how understanding this in general in any way justifies this specific practice though.

Are we really asking for that much?

Are we really challenging that much?

Brad

PS Severn, I'm curious if you saw any connection beteen my 'over-intellectualized' future analysis and what's happening here? I may be barking up the wrong tree (nobody's perfect)but there are connections to my mind.
  
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


49 posted 07-11-2001 09:20 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Are we really asking for that much?

I haven't heard anyone ask for anything beyond an explanationÖ
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> i don't get it...   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors