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Passions in Poetry

We Hear You, Now Shut up

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Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


25 posted 07-05-2001 04:15 PM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

Ali:  You said it!  If you feel the need to butcher the English language, please doesn't call it "poetry."    

Michael: *blinking*  Thank you, I think I'm deaf now ... yes, the "read and reply" entreaties get on my nerves as well.  I, for one, would rather let my poem stand on its own -- and if it fades into obscurity, so be it.  At least I didn't beg anyone to read it ...

Irish Rose:    

Sunshine:  I'll lean close to listen to you whisper anyday, sweetie ... thanks for your two (four?) cents ...  

Sharon:  ACK!  I CanT STanD ThIS sOrT oF TypING ... tacky, just tacky ... and I'm glad you agree with me about the hokey pokey!  

Marge:  That's weird about the parens booting you ... what a choosy server you must have!  At any rate, while it *may* be true that *other* (less worthy, less interesting, less passionate) poetry sites might REQUIRE the title to be in all caps, it only takes a modicum of intelligence to notice that such is NOT the case here with one glance at any of our forums -- the all-caps titles stick out like a sore thumb because they are the exception, not the rule.  While I agree with your policy of welcoming new members, I'm afraid that given the volume of new members we get daily and the small amount of time I (and, I assume, other members) have to dedicate to this board, I think I'd rather confine my efforts to reading poetry, thank you.

Dopey:  amen, brother.    

Karen:  I'd consider a "shouted" title enough of a warning, wouldn't you?    Especially when it is accompanied by a username also in ALL CAPS!  

Romy:  You learn something new every day ... LOL

JM:  sprinkles, huh?  *locking JM in the shouting box with Michael*    

rascalx:  are you saying that these poets are using the all-caps as a "trademark?"  If so, it's not very original ... there are several that do so ... kinda defeats the purpose of the trademark thing, no?

vlraynes: by the numbers, shall we?    

1)Why did you come to Passions in the first
place?  

I did a search on "poetry" because I was looking for some suitable love poetry to send to a friend.

2)What was it that brought you here?

See above

3)Did you come here so you could pick apart
the posting styles of other poets?

Yes ... it's called "constructive criticism" -- and giving or receiving it is (or should be) an important part of the growing process of ANY good poet.  If someone can give me advice that makes my poetry better -- such as "please don't type your title and/or poem in all caps, it makes it difficult to read and appreciate" -- then I say "Fire away!"

4)Did you come here to judge others on there
personal preferences concerning the use of
capital letters, elipses, or anything else
they may choose to use in the posting of
their poetry?  

See above -- yes.  Not to mention that constructive criticism includes correct use of grammar ... ("there personal preferences..?")

5)Or...did you, perhaps, come to Passions
to meet other poets, read there work, share yours with them, and generally to enjoy the gift of poetry?

Yes, yes, and yes ... but I do not consider this a "pity party" ... this is not a support group in a clinical sense, in that we all must tread on eggshells lest we disrupt one another's delicate mental state ... we are poets -- artists, and as such, we should be open-minded to the ideas of others, which includes criticism gently given.  Personally, if I were a newbie who could make a small change such as the ones suggested above in order to assure that my posts would be read by more people, I would sincerely appreciate anyone who dropped the suggestion.    


Just my take.  Thanks to everyone for reading and replying.
Linda

[This message has been edited by Skyfyre (edited 07-05-2001).]

Temptress
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 06-15-99
Posts 7276
Mobile, AL


26 posted 07-05-2001 06:36 PM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

Marge,
You'll forgive me as I wasn't clear on what your being disconnected meant. I took it as you were put off from reading because of the parenthesis. In other words, I thought it made you a bit mentally disconnected from the poem. LOL! I knew that sounded a little strange so I asked. Actually, it was a little diffictult to understand as you didn't mention your server in this whole being disconnected thing. I'm not sure how parenthesis would make you get disconnected, but then again, I'm not a computer/server whiz either.     Just call them and smack them around a little bit. LOL! They'll come around.   Well...I'm glad we're clear now. I hope.  

*jenn*
Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


27 posted 07-05-2001 07:22 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

Karen?

Someone 'hates your guts'??? What??? Where are they? Let me at 'em...I'm ready, I'll sort 'em out...

heh

hugs chicky...you're worth loving my friend.

Right, now that I have been soppy...

Linda you have my full support. This is NOT a support group where we have to walk on eggshells. (I'd like to critique your cliche m'friend heh heh). Yes, it's a place where we support each other but I think we have the right to speak our minds.

K

I am a refugee of logic...insisting
on unlikely land with every step.

Moon Dust
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 06-11-99
Posts 2250
Skelmersdale, UK


28 posted 07-05-2001 07:24 PM       View Profile for Moon Dust   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Moon Dust

u know this not only just gets to me on ere but people talking in chatrooms and e-mails in caps as well, what is all that about, it's definately like shouting to me. I suppose I wouldnt mind so much it it was a accompied by a smilie. As for those pleas like "READ ME READ ME" just makes me wanna feel to ignore them, more than have a read.

Don't ever give in, if you do you've lost everything you've ever had and everything you hope to gain, but if you carry on your already winning.

Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 11-06-1999
Posts 43042
Florida's Foreverly Shores


29 posted 07-05-2001 09:17 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

Vicky~
Quit laughing ! ! !
See ... we DO need an icon that represents
'batting your head against a brick wall' !
quote:
So, on that note, I'm heading off to enjoy
some poetry...anyone care to join me?'

We'll just keep   along ! !
Actually reading some good poetry, writing AND responding to some!

I Love Ya', gal !

TemptyOne~
Thank ya' for reading and understanding, gal~
I'll settle for being unique !
Think I'll try that smacking 'em around thing !
~*Marge*~

~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
                               noles1@totcon.com             

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


30 posted 07-05-2001 09:27 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Laughing at K here...no, don't beat her up, please...she has enough probs...but hey, I apologized to her, but no law says she has to accept it, and to stop the any rumor mills, was not a forum thing, but a real time disagreement. And I have been hated more, by a few much better at it...now I'm off to be "serene"... (It IS about the poetry for me, and I'll reply to her if I want to...lol)
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


31 posted 07-05-2001 09:38 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I just gotta ask:

If the format of a poem makes it difficult or irritating to read,

WHY NOT TELL THE WRITER?

Isn't the goal of posting a poem here to be read? Trite or not, if it inhibits reading shouldn't the writer know?

I don't know -- it's kind of like going into a job interview with mustard on your mouth and your friends didn't mention it before because it's embarrassing.

Or a girlfriend breaks up with you but won't tell you the reason (you're a foreigner) because it'll hurt your feelings.

C'mon, the sovereignty of the author is ridiculous if nobody wants to read it.

Brad



Temptress
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 06-15-99
Posts 7276
Mobile, AL


32 posted 07-05-2001 09:43 PM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

Brad,
I would say tell them, but as we know there are those little critique flags up saying whether or not they want critique.    If they post in CA, they're asking for it anyway. LOL! Out in the wild blue open and other areas, it isn't always as welcome.  
rascalx
Senior Member
since 08-25-99
Posts 604
Florence, SC, USA


33 posted 07-05-2001 10:06 PM       View Profile for rascalx   Email rascalx   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit rascalx's Home Page   View IP for rascalx

Sky,
     While I agree with you that constant use of capitals shows a lack of imagination and could "pigeon-hole" the writer into a given "trademark", it is still the writer's prerogative to use the English language (or any language for that matter) in whatever fashion he or she chooses. And we the reader have the right to critique the poet in whatever manner we choose. But censorship is not an option. I very rarely use parentheses or capitals in my title, and now that I am aware of Marge's server/disconnect problem, I will make an extra effort to not include them in the future. But if tomorrow, I decide to write a poem in which I feel it necessary to include "strange" uses of grammar and punctuation, it should not be construed as a disregard for Marge's or anyone else's sensibilities. I am just practicing my craft as I see fit with the understanding that some people will like my work and others won't. OK, I'm getting off my stump again! lol  
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


34 posted 07-05-2001 10:07 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Fair enough. It is a kind of aesthetic critique (but so is saying something is great). I still think people want to be read and that the writer should at least know that he or she is not being read based on format decisions.

If it is trite, what's the big deal?

Brad
Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


35 posted 07-05-2001 10:22 PM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

Brad:

Why not tell them, indeed?  But, as Temptress pointed out, there is that "critique flag" -- and if it isn't there, then I would have to interpret it as ANY critique, no matter how miniscule, is not welcome ...

Besides the fact that even WITH the critique flag up and waving, I have little doubt that to offer such critique in Open would be synonymous to throwing myself to the proverbial wolves ... the ones who like walking on eggshells, that is.  We are, after all, shiny happy people here with no disagreements on style, form, or anything else ... blah blah blah

I'm sure I'm stepping on a few toes here, but frankly I'm sick of being preached at (if you'll pardon my dangling preposition LOL).  This is exactly why I stay out of Open, at least in the reply department.

Go ahead, folks -- tear into me.  I can take it.  


Linda

vlraynes
Member Rara Avis
since 07-25-2000
Posts 9136
Somewhere... out there...


36 posted 07-05-2001 10:29 PM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes


Marge-
   ...thump...thump...LOL...OUCH!!
   my head is killing me! LOL
   I'm right behind you, my friend..
   To the forums, to READ, WRITE, and
   RESPOND..
  
   Rolling we are...rolling on forever! LOL
   love and hugs,
   ~vicky

"...until you have read the verse on his
heart, you have not truely met the poet."
-vlraynes


Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 11-06-1999
Posts 43042
Florida's Foreverly Shores


37 posted 07-05-2001 10:58 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

RascalX~
Thank you.
And please know that even when someone has the (parenthesis) in their title ... I often send my comments in by 'proxy' !

I don't have a problem with the WAY the titles or the poetry is served up ... just can't get my choosy server to let me reply.

I appreciate your comments in regards to the individuality of form and style for all posting poets.

*Vicky~
BIG TIME !
~*Marge*~

~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
                               noles1@totcon.com             

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


38 posted 07-05-2001 11:08 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Just quickly:

(1) People are complaining about certain formats and tend not to read all caps or arbitrary alternate spelling pieces.

(2) People believe that a writer should be allowed the format he or she wants.

We agree on this?

But what about

(3) Telling the writer how you feel about a specific format?

What's wrong with that?

It's not censorship, it's not really 'descending' into CA  , and while it might offend a few people (people are always offended about something), it might help writers realize that readers matter too.

I don't know, I'm just suggesting.

Brad

PS Would this even be a rule change?  

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


39 posted 07-06-2001 02:08 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

JUST for the record, I encourage critique, and Linda, would especially respect your opinion, since I so respect your work. I can't grow if I don't know...K has been especially helpful, and there are times when we disagree, and that's never been a prob...In fact, we have great fun with it, but I am still too nervous for C/A--(Brad scares me...) ROFL...but yes, by all means, please help me. I want to be the best poet that I can be.
Michael
Moderator
Member Ascendant
since 08-13-99
Posts 6333
California


40 posted 07-06-2001 03:08 AM       View Profile for Michael   Email Michael   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michael

Alright, anyone who has ever read any of my poetry can probably tell you that I do capitalize the titles of all of my poems.  When you open up the post and voila' - I title all poems within the thread and then usually in all caps.  There is nothing wrong with this style.  Many people, myself included, have been taught this to be the proper style of writing poetry, which in itself is scary.

However, I do not use all capitals in the "subject" box when I list my post.  It has long been considered good forum etiquette, not just here at Passions but in many forums I have seen, not to do this.  All caps is considered to be yelling by many people, and though I cannot say I have never been guilty of doing this, I can say that the annoyance this brings was kindly pointed out to me some years back.  This was NOT ill received on my part.

My point:   I took this criticism as anyone should.  A way to get more people to read and appreciate my work.  No matter what the intent of the writer, whether here to meet new people or just to read and have their poetry read, they would not be posting if they were not seeking reply.  I personally would be hard pressed to reply to something written in all caps.  I rarely open a thread in all caps other than just for doing my moderator duties and I feign to think of opening an ICQ chat with someone who is going to be screaming at me in all caps - I don't think my eyes could handle it...

I don't know if a "rule" would be in order here as may have been suggested but I definitely don't see anything wrong with telling someone their poems may be read easier if not put in all caps.  As Brad said, it's not like were descending into C.A. by doing this.  Personally, I see nothing wrong with pointing out spelling and grammar errors as well - this is not descending into C.A. either but just a matter of forum etiquette as well.  I know I would rather have someone point my errors out to me than just let my poem stumble by reader after reader with some gross error I simply may have overlooked.  

We're all human here, and we all have feelings I know.  I would like to say we're all adult here as well, or at least of an adult and mature nature but it's becoming more and more apparent that some of us are not.  If we can't at least share simple input about each other's writings and possible tips to help, especially the newbies, without fear of retribution than I must say, this forum is merely plastic in every form of the word and not the "family of friends" it claims to be.

Unlike the consensus, I am open to hearing your opinions as well...  Don't hold back on my account.

Michael

[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 07-06-2001).]

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


41 posted 07-06-2001 10:11 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

My opinion at 2.10am is merely a simple 'amen Michael.'

K

(And Karen - I love whooping it up with you heh...)

I am a refugee of logic...insisting
on unlikely land with every step.

Sven
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 11-23-1999
Posts 15611
Lansing, MI USA


42 posted 07-06-2001 07:52 PM       View Profile for Sven   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sven

isn't it amazing how a simple discussion can turn into a major debate???  

*sigh*

oh, and for the record. . . I'm with Michael. . . great job. . .

---------------------------------------------------------------

To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


43 posted 07-06-2001 09:29 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

What's a simple discussion?  

Brad

Note to self: when writing one word comments. Triple check.

[This message has been edited by Brad (edited 07-06-2001).]

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


44 posted 07-06-2001 11:01 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

Can I do the James Brown again Brad?  

Heh

K

I am a refugee of logic...insisting
on unlikely land with every step.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


45 posted 07-06-2001 11:24 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Not to get off the subject, but K--YOU'VE DONE JAMES BROWN?

(am I having way too much fun with you yet?)

bwahahahaha
Sven
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 11-23-1999
Posts 15611
Lansing, MI USA


46 posted 07-06-2001 11:46 PM       View Profile for Sven   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sven

I for one, would love to see K do James Brown!!!  

*HEY!!*
I feel good . . . lol. . .

-----------------------------------------------------------

To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


47 posted 07-07-2001 01:28 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

K - unobtrusively - exits in a hurry
Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


48 posted 07-07-2001 03:41 AM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

*dragging K back by the hair*

OH no you don't ...  

Let's see it, woman ... you've let the cat out of the bag, now you've got to deal with the consequences ... hehehe

(um, as an aside, just WHEN did this go from a legitimate gripe to a circus parade...?  LOL)

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


49 posted 07-07-2001 06:47 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

It's Brad's fault!
It has nothing to do with me I swear!!!

K

I am a refugee of logic...insisting
on unlikely land with every step.

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