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Passions in Poetry

Give Me Liberty or Give Me A Second Chance?

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Ladycat
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since 07-05-99
Posts 809
At the edge and a doorway,TX


0 posted 06-11-2001 12:16 PM       View Profile for Ladycat   Email Ladycat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ladycat's Home Page   View IP for Ladycat

Please grin and bare with me when I say this.  I know that alot of this might offend some people, but I'm just trying to understand it all.

There was just a man alive name Timothy McVeigh. He killed several people. Innocence people. Yet there still were people trying to fight for his life and I don't get it at all.  I don't understand how you can go out and kill and people will stil fight for you.  This morning as I was watching the set up for the execution; I watched a big group of people gather, light the candles, sing songs and pray that this man might not die today.  When the news people went over there to talk to them they say that the death penality was violence and it was not the way to solve anything.  I was thinking tell that to the families of the many people that died at this man's hands. When the news man asked what should they do instead of killing him; one of the ladies said that the should just kill him in jail.  I don't know about you, but I don't think that I should have to pay (money) for other people mistakes. Keeping him in jail is tax payer's money. Do you honestly think that these people that were sitting, singing and praying for this man now would do the same if it were one of there family members? Violence never solves anything was what the man said, but if this killer would have thought of that from the beginning don't you think that he wouldn't have to worry about dying. It just doesn't seem right that people would actually be against geting this man gone since he did nothing to improve the problems that we already have on this over populated Earth.  Rapist and murders are in the same place to me.  They don't deserve a second chance.  That is just me though.

What do you think?

Live in my world just once and you'll find yourself enraptured.

Tovi
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since 06-05-2001
Posts 169


1 posted 06-11-2001 02:44 PM       View Profile for Tovi   Email Tovi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tovi

I agree completely.  And applaud your oppinion.

Not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

Acies
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Twilight Zone


2 posted 06-11-2001 03:51 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

That's because some people's moral and values tell them that noone has the right to kill a person(s) no matter what.  The bible states that too.

hi Sweets, Lizzy, Ina, Erin, Erica, Minna, Kit, Kamie, Javi, Jenn, Sharon, Nan, Cawlee, Cherish, Ashley, Sara, Justine, Leah, Jess, Kimmie, Maree, Mic

Dopey Dope
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3 posted 06-11-2001 06:01 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Here Here acire! But I say death to him...oh well.
Spice
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since 04-13-2001
Posts 4474
Resting in my cardboard box.


4 posted 06-12-2001 12:12 AM       View Profile for Spice   Email Spice   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Spice's Home Page   View IP for Spice

I agree with you completely Lady.
I was thinking the same thing while reading some of the articles about it on the Internet.  And whats Europe's problem? How is this any of their business? I seriously doubt they'd feel the same if someone went bombing their palace up.
But yea- it made me sick to read some of the things people had said. How many people did he kill? Like 168? Yes. 168; 19 of which were small children...That doesn't even include the people he just mutated...leaving with one eye and missing limbs etc etc... Yet still, people fought for him. I don't think I could live with myself if I were his lawyer... I couldn't fight for him- I wouldn't fight for him. The man felt no remorse what-so-ever for what he did. If you ask me- they should have made him suffer. Not this easy lethal injection death-. Give him the chair... Bomb him! Make him feel pain. Somebody should have smacked those protesters.

[This message has been edited by Spice (edited 06-12-2001).]

Skyfyre
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since 08-15-99
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Sitting in Michael's Lap


5 posted 06-12-2001 02:31 AM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

It has been said that "To forgive is divine."  There is a reason for this; it goes against all human nature and, some would say, all fairness and justice to forgive unconditionally when one has been wronged.  Therefore, if a 'mere' human can find it in his heart to truly forgive, it would seem that he has somehow risen above the baseness of his humanity to another, morally elevated, plane ....

We are not *all* so lucky, however.  Some of us thought that justice was served today -- that Timothy McVeigh got what was coming to him when he was put to death.  Some people cheered.  Some breathed a sigh of relief to know that there was *no* chance he would ever be released to kill again.  Some wept with joy -- and some wept in sorrow.  Some lit candles and sang songs and prayed that this man, who willfully took the lives of so many others, would not meet the fate that the justice system had laid out for him.

None of them were wrong.

Timothy McVeigh was guilty of a heinous crime; that fact is not in dispute even among those who opposed his execution.  The debate rages not over the crime, but the punishment -- the validity of the death penalty as a deterrant.  From a practical standpoint, what good is a punishment if it does nothing to dissuade someone from committing a crime?  From a moral or spiritual standpoint, doesn't violence beget more violence?

On the other hand, had the sentence been commuted, what's to stop the next McVeigh from blowing up the building with your children in it?  And if, Heaven forbid, it DID happen ... what penalty would you suggest for the person who slaughtered innocent members of your family?

Tough questions -- and not ones I feel qualified to answer yea or nay ... but I must admit that when the lives of children become involved, it becomes very, very personal to me.  If it had been my children ... well, let's just say that rational thought and morality would have very little to do with my reaction.

Just my opinion.


Linda

Decaflame
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since 05-11-2001
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6 posted 06-12-2001 11:07 AM       View Profile for Decaflame   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Decaflame

It is good, then, that all people can come together and share their thoughts, morals, attitudes, convictions, knowing that no one has the correct answer, for even He has been known to wipe evil off the face of the earth [if you believe in God, and the Bible]...

who is to say then that He did not allow us this thought to put to use the action of our convictions, by our rules, which in essence, and in part, follows His rules.

We are not God.  [thank goodness]  But I do thank God for giving some of us the strength we need, to follow through with the Rules as are set down by the Government, that is of our creation.

It is still up to the people to monitor their government's actions.

Be ever vigilant, with compassion.

[This message has been edited by Decaflame (edited 06-12-2001).]

Paula Finn
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since 06-17-2000
Posts 5525
missouri


7 posted 06-12-2001 02:44 PM       View Profile for Paula Finn   Email Paula Finn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Paula Finn

Ok my two cents worth here....I firmly believe in the death penalty...maybe it isnt a deterrent to other criminals...but it sure keeps one person from killing again and again....I'm not saying that every one who kills deserves to have thier life taken in penalty...but violent sadistic criminals arent gonna change by being incarcerated...and I sure dont want them in my neighborhood around my children...Everyone has thier own opinions and beliefs...and they are just as valid as mine...but Timothy McVeigh deserved to die...168 people...168 innocents...and you are right...some of the people protesting his death would change their minds if they had had a family member in that building...to forgive is divine...but there are some things just not forgivable....
RainbowGirl
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since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


8 posted 06-13-2001 07:10 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Hiya Lady...how's things now with your son..hopefully good and happy..:-)

I must admit, my thoughts were twofold on this subject, 1) with all the families that lost connection with those they loved and 2) feeling how weird that my local radio station was reporting on it at 12:50pm (10 mins before execution) and playing "the wonder of you"...

It seems odd to me that the reports seem to say that he was so ambivalent and yet here we were listening in the preceeding moments before someone's death...I hate what he did but I also hate the system...2 wrongs don't make a right...here, they are saying - did he just admit to it wanting the publicity?....

A friend of mine was the insurance adjuster and he felt sure there was more than 1 involved but he also felt the perpetrator was killed in the bombing...

How sad that people feel the way to make a statement is to kill/injure others..:-(

Truth for me is that the death of someone doesn't ever bring back those you lost...just makes me feel sadder still that one can go to such measures...I just hope the families of those involved can and do, find a little peace in their hearts so that they may remember their familes and lay them to rest - finally.

[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 06-13-2001).]

DYME
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since 07-29-2000
Posts 109
Texas


9 posted 06-27-2001 05:03 PM       View Profile for DYME   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DYME's Home Page   View IP for DYME

All I can say is thank you!! Someone else besides me sees that. It makes no sense for someone to go and kill hundreds of innocent people with a cold heart and for people to turn around and say, "don't kill him. he didn't mean it. he's a human being. give him a chance at life." Did he give anyone else a chance at life? No he didn't. Should he be given a chnace at life? No he shouldn't.

I'm not crazy...I have papers to prove it!!

No weapon formed against me shall prosper... ISAIAH 54:17

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


10 posted 06-27-2001 11:18 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

McVeigh considered what he did an act of war against an overbearing government. That does not make it right to take 168 lives, but allow me to make a comparison.

The majority of the world considered the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WWII an act of war. Tens of thousands of innocent Japanese citizens dies during those bombings. But it's okay, because the government says so?

Now, on another note. First of all, an execution doesn't save you money, it's really a pretty expensive ordeal, so the tax money that goes to keep prisoners alive is a moot point.

And to get to my final point- the death penalty has not proven to be an effective deterrant against crime. It does insure that the guilty person can never kill again- so does life in prison. So what, really, is the point of execution? Simple- it's justification. People don't seem to see the fact that wanting another human being to die or suffer is sick and cruel, no matter what that person did. Revenge is an easy excuse for normally peaceful people to get off on violence. But it's wrong! We are not gods, and I don't think we have the right to send a human soul through the system of black & white and condemn that man, no matter how evil we may think he is. He's still human.

everything's fine.

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