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Passions in Poetry

Responding to ones own poetry.... Marina and Marina 2 ???

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Member Elite
since 09-26-2000
Posts 3830
tRyIn tO fIt iN2 mY oWn ShoEs

100 posted 06-06-2001 01:36 PM       View Profile for xShUgArHiGhx   Email xShUgArHiGhx   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit xShUgArHiGhx's Home Page   View IP for xShUgArHiGhx

I liked the old way a lot better. I agree with Marina..i think its annoying to have your poem get lost in the crowd and not be able to bring it back to recognition...there are so many poems posted a day that poems get pushed down so fast!! I liked the old way better where you can bump your poems up...Im glad you brough this topic up Marina  
Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium

101 posted 06-06-2001 03:13 PM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

WHOA... I seem to be quite a bit of a latecomer here...

Can we consider this situation... I do not have a computer at my apartment. One may ask why not? Well, simply because I am away from home (In India) working on 3 monthly contract basis (in Belgium) which luckily has been extending since the last two years. and the cost of buying a computer would be equal to the custom duties I'd have to pay to get it to my official residence in India, and that is just one of the reasons. I work 5 days a week and am bound to my computer at work for 10 o 12 hours and I need the weekends to play catchup with relaxing, food, social activities, local friends, sport ... so basically I surf from my place of work, typically before and after working hours... believe me, that makes it a long day.

Then consider this, I post a poem on a friday, and maybe get a couple of  replies, and then it gets plunged because there are many users during peak hours. Please remember the world times also, I am in belgium, so I am about 7 hours away from most of you who post from USA etc... so when I shut my PC down usually earlier than on other weekdays, it is just the best part of the day starting elsewhere. Well, I come back on Monday and check my work back. It is not in the library, since the library is not updated that frequently. It is not in today's topics either. So I search back in the forums and glance through each of those lovely blue pages. This gives me a great view of all posts gone by, and a chance to read, but that is what I might have done even otherwise. But, since I surf from work, I cannot abuse my work privileges and surf all the time, that's against my work ethics. So even before I got to my poem, I am out of time, so I simply rush to my previous post, sometimes neglecting other posts, and respond for I feel the urge to thank each one of you for reading and commenting; and I always try to combine my replies in one post. Sometimes, some writers leave behind a wonderful poem as a response, others simply say what they feel etc. So while thanking I think, maybe more should read this work, since this has affected atleast one reader, and since I understand the "plunge" effect, I assume most people have not read that particular one. But my response doesn't send the thread back to the top. I dislike calling this a *BUMP*. I have had this situation in the earlier way of working, quite often that readers who manage to read the poem 'on the second run', comment, "how did I miss this one?" etc.

Does that not create a doubt of maybe the sending back the thread to the top should be re-introduced?

A poet/writer craves for some attention. But, mostly he/she craves to gain the knowledge that someone else was moved by his/her write in a certain way and for precisely that reason, it is essential that the "attention span", as some might wish to call this, is more.

When I had more time at my disposal, i.e. when my room-mate had a computer in the apartment that I shared, at weekends, I used to be reaching out to posts with very few replies 0, 1 or 2 in that order and try to encourage the writer to write more and not give up, and that has worked in many cases. All constructive critiques and remarks were of course sent by e-mails, as some members here would be ready to acknowledge.

But, since life is not the same at all times, the time that we have to do what we like most is also not the same quotient. Well, that is philosophy and not part of this discussion, and I have already spoken a lot.

I still read about 20 to 50 poems a day and try to respond to about 15 to 40 of them depending on how I feel about the poem and when I type my "thank you" response is not with respects to how many I might still reply. But, there is a tendency with me (as is with all) to post a poem (If I have one) when I leave the site and check back the next day, when these days, I find that post laying in the pages far away read by a few members who happened to be there at the same time, while others couldn't reach the post, who might get a chance the next day if the old feature were restored.

Whatever, I am rambling away too much, wasting much of all of your precious time. And it is getting to a 14 hour work day today… so all I will say is that I prefer the "back to the top" way of working for the open forums, and no aliases, please unless it is because of particular reasons other than to be read or to cheat the system, for that will soon be spotted and …

Of course, Ron has the final choice and I appreciate his wonderful way of dealing with issues in a concrete manner taking all opinions on an equal basis.

Thanks for reading what I ramble,
I hope to catch up with this thread later,
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas

102 posted 06-06-2001 04:36 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Hey there Sudsy...  

Wow, it's been a while since I've seen you around...guess I tend to stick to the discussion forums a tad too much. And don't worry...since many of the more social threads were moved to the Lounge, posts tend to stick around a bit longer here in the Alley.   <--ain't this cool?  

You espoused yourself very eloquently, but I have the feeling that you used a lot of your PiP time formulating this reply. By doing so, I know that the poem/reply discussion has touched you deeply.

I'll be sure to hunt your work down when time permits.

You have a good one, Sudsy, and try not to wear yourself down too awfully much.

Pax Poeticus,

Member Elite
since 09-05-99
Posts 3505
Bewilderment , USA

103 posted 06-10-2001 02:07 AM       View Profile for Dr.Moose1   Email Dr.Moose1   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dr.Moose1

I just read through all of the above , and all are good points ( for or against )however, the one that caught my attention  most was the  " todays topics " solution .
This is probably one of the most user friendly poetry sites there is . Ron has done a wonderful job of making this a fact .
All the necessary tools are in place to provide each individual with that which they desire . Personally , I find it hard to comprehend the nature of this discussion .
We are poets , not politicians . We write because we have to . After that , who cares ?

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since 02-10-2000
Posts 2267
Pickering, Ontario

104 posted 06-20-2001 02:27 PM       View Profile for Marina   Email Marina   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marina

I was just reading Irish Rose's remark on "posting" to other people's poetry.  And well, I am sorry but I do see something fimiliar about both these topics.  Im fact I feel in a way they are connected.  Mow granted I, myself, am guility on not responded enough to other people's work as I should, but if one does ( as we all should at least try) why can you then not have the right to "bump" yours back up.  You have done right by others, so why can't you do right for yourself????

Just my thoughts for today...


It is a blessing to have wings for words, and passion in pen
Marina Crossley

serenity blaze
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105 posted 06-20-2001 03:40 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Now isn't this a trip? I just thanked people for replies on three of my poems..(I tend to neglect that sort of thing when pressed for time I shamefully admit it) and? THREE OUT OF FOUR poems bumped to the top!!!! me going crazy!
Titia Geertman
Member Ascendant
since 05-07-2001
Posts 5297

106 posted 06-25-2001 07:25 PM       View Profile for Titia Geertman   Email Titia Geertman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Titia Geertman's Home Page   View IP for Titia Geertman

I think the same discussion is going on on different forums. One in Suggestions, one in Feelings and here in The Alley.

I think I don't see about 3/4 of the submitted poems, just because lack of time.
Internetting is quite an expensive business for me because I have to use the phoneline and phoning costs a lot in the Netherlands. I live too far out in the country for kabelinternetting. (Gosh, we got gaz for cooking, heating etc. only a few years ago)

I have the same problem as Sudhir, I'm always posting when you have your dinner, that is on a late hour for me (it's 1 AM now).You probably post your own poetry first after dinner and after that read some other poems, well at that time my poem will be on page 2 or 3 already, so out of sight.

I read a lot, more than I reply to, not every poem affects me in the same way, but I miss a lot too. So if you don't get a reply from me, it's not always lack of interest, but just lack of time. Lately I just walk through former pages and look for poems with few replies because I think those deserve to be looked at more closely instead of the poems that already have 10 to 25 replies.

When I have to reply to all the poetry from people that replied to me, well, I think I do need a second job to cover the costs and I won't see my bed at all.

As for alias... I learned about their existance only recently and I don't approve at all (some private exceptions excluded maybe). I felt a bit 'taken by the nose' as we say overhere. That means that I welcome somebody at Passions who's poems I replied to just before. I think that's not fair. No wonder poems are moving fast to nowhereland.

Well, we all have comments on this subject, but I don't know the answer neither. I only hope Passions is not turning into some contest of gathering the most replies.

I reply to words, not to names, at least I try to.

My count on open #14 = total posts 482, original posts 50. Don't know if that's good or bad.

So my time is up, it's half past two AM, want to take a quick look at open #14 and then it's bedtime, full day work tomorrow.

See you all at open #14 I hope.


A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess...
Feel free to use the pictures on my website.

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since 08-25-99
Posts 604
Florence, SC, USA

107 posted 07-10-2001 10:59 PM       View Profile for rascalx   Email rascalx   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit rascalx's Home Page   View IP for rascalx

I think my brain has turned into mush after reading all of the previous replies, but as they were well written and presented many valuable points, I just had to follow the thread through to its "completion". As for my own 1.3 cents (taxes and inflation, ya know  ), I will go on record by saying that I agree with Ron. While I find it frustrating at times that a poem I'm quite proud of has slipped into the "lost realms of page 6+", I can not think of a better way to make sure that all of the writers here are fairly represented. Yes, we all want to be read..thus, irregardless of talent or popularity, we should all get the chance to be read. While no system is perfect, if the readers and writers here utilize the tools that Ron has so wonderfully provided for us, our poems as well as our responses WILL be read in a manner that benefits everyone.
                          - Jeff
Titia Geertman
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since 05-07-2001
Posts 5297

108 posted 07-18-2001 07:16 PM       View Profile for Titia Geertman   Email Titia Geertman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Titia Geertman's Home Page   View IP for Titia Geertman

I just want to explain that for quite some time I thought that I was being rude if I didn't answer every reply I got on my poems. It took a lot of time doing that resting lesser time to read and reply.
Then I saw others replying once in a while and that's what I'm doing now too, most of the time that is.

Am I glad that the BUMPING UP is not available, for you must have thought of me doing that on purpose, while I thought I was just being polite.

I really don't know what's best. I never knew the bump up time so I've no experience with that.


A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess...
Feel free to use the pictures on my website.

Dusk Treader
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since 06-18-99
Posts 1231
St. Paul, MN

109 posted 07-19-2001 01:52 AM       View Profile for Dusk Treader   Email Dusk Treader   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dusk Treader

Wow.. I just managed to read through this entire thread, and boy there are a lot of arguments. Forgive me if I've missed some past point or decision, as there was a lot of information and it's getting late.

I am glad to see that the bump "feature" has been removed. I've always felt like I was cheating other people out of the spotline when I replied to my own works, but I also wanted to extend my thanks to the wonderful people who commented.

I agree with Ron, especially when he says (and I paraphrase) why should any author have the right to decide their work deserves another go around? That just doesn't seem right to me. We have the nice silver folders now that tell us when a post has been replied to, and if you really want to know if the author replied to our reply we'd remember and be able to do a quick search for him/her. I do this all the time.

I don't like "bumping." I think the important thing here is the poetry.

On a semi-related note, I wonder how the replying would change in Open if only the poem's title was listed on the forum list. Poet's name and the number of replies it has would all be inside. People would be attracted by interesting or creative titles instead of a poets name or the bandwagon appeal.

Okay, shutting up now  

"They that start by burning books will end by burning men." -- Heinrich Heine

Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia

110 posted 07-20-2001 12:30 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel


Perhaps this has already been suggested ( I haven't the time to read through 5 pages of responses ) but, I was wondering if it was technically possible to add an e-mail notification to thread responders -- at their election of course.  This would seemingly allow fellow poets to know when they have been 'thanked' without scouring the back 40.
The Lonely Stranger
since 06-18-99
Posts 367
Upstate, NY, USA

111 posted 11-25-2001 06:16 AM       View Profile for The Lonely Stranger   Email The Lonely Stranger   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for The Lonely Stranger

Hi all .... I guess I'll pipe up here.

First on a semi related (Posting Etiquitte) topic, I want everyone to know that I read about two screens of poetry a day. I do not, however, comment a lot. To be honest I don't understand every poem and I don't want to cheapen the value of a reply because I clearly didn't understand their poem. So please know that if I don't comment on your poem .... I almost surely read it. Would anyone be able to suggest a way for me to make a comment that says that I took the time to read a poem even if I didn't understand it? I'm all for learning new people skills.

Now to the topic at hand. I originally responded to each and every response to my poems ..... then I saw a more polite way which was to wait and reply to several at once. And I even try not to do that more than twice. Perhaps we simply establish an etiquitte that says you may bump your poem back up with thank you's only once or twice, we are all adults and surely could abide by a standard ... yes ?

No one ever listened themselves into trouble.

The Lonely Stranger
since 06-18-99
Posts 367
Upstate, NY, USA

112 posted 11-25-2001 08:20 AM       View Profile for The Lonely Stranger   Email The Lonely Stranger   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for The Lonely Stranger

Suggestion :

If the "autobump" stays dead .... a possible solution to the "author thanks" issue is this :

1) When a non-author responds in a thread, his/her e-mail addy is combined with a thread number to form a record in a file as in the example below ....

2) Add an "e-mail all responders" button that will read all responder names from the file and put them in the "mailto" portion of an e-mail and present the e-mail window for the author to type a "group reply" in which he/she can cite individual replies or do a group thank you.

3) After each "e-mail all responders" is executed, the program could delete those responder records from the file to prevent repeated e-mailing of thank you's to people who have only replied once. Only the responders who are new will get the e-mail each time.

So what do ya think???

No one ever listened themselves into trouble.

Member Elite
since 08-29-2001
Posts 3003
where insanity meets breeding

113 posted 11-25-2001 11:29 AM       View Profile for Tracey   Email Tracey   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tracey

Lonely stranger, one way of letting people know you've read their poem, is to do like Vandana does, she simply says "enjoyed", without going into an explanation. I know she's read my poem and enjoyed it. Something like that would let people know that you liked the poem and read it. Just a thought

On the topic of e-mailing someone everytime the author responds to a response: I personally wouldnt like that feature. I usually respond to anywhere from 10-30 poems a day, so if all those people responded to my response, that would be an awful lot of e-mails in my in-box. wouldnt be so bad if there was just one e-mail sent at the end of the day, listing all the authors who responded to my response, but not one each.
Just my 2c worth

If she who dies with the most toys wins, then can I have some toy boys please?

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114 posted 11-25-2001 11:29 AM       View Profile for rosepetals25   Email rosepetals25   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rosepetals25

I'm not sure if I already responded to this or not... I didn't see my name when I scanned the pages... which surprises me because I'm sure I would have responded by now.

I also like and miss the bump feature.  It had it's problems..  authors abusing the self-bump..  but over all I believe it was a good thing.  It gave a chance for lesser known poets to be seen more often.  Alot of people respond to names.  Which is understandable.  If some one has a lot of posts you see their names often, and they becomes friends. Familar.  New faces get passed with out a second glance, usually.  

I also like the feature for.. .well... selfish reasons. *chuckles* I know writing is suppose to be all about just that writing, not the replies. The reason I look for replies aren't for acceptance to see a large number of replies by my name, but to see if anyone offered a suggestion of what could be done better.  Learning from the other poets has helped my writing improve more than I could ever say.

I don't think we are forcing people to read the poems that are bumped back to the top.  I think I read someone say in this bundle of replies, that they have their own mind..they know what they want to reply to.  Seeing the poem back at the top wouldn't make them suddenly want to reply. And that is fine. But, I know that I miss some poems.  With the bump feature I have a second chance to find the pome. Today's Topics is a brilliant idea, and it has helped much, but I still miss some poems, not being able to be here as much as I would like some days.

Over all I like the self bump. I thought it was a good idea.. and I miss it.

I also liked an idea I saw, about the "newbie forum"  This would give the new people a place to stretch their legs, get to know how things work... I don't think they would have to post there.. but they could be given the option. Have everyone under 500 posts be able to post in there.  That way, their name will be known, at least to a few.  And everyone else can stop in and read and reply to the poems. I really like that idea.. and I would gladly volunteer as moderator if it would come to light...

Ok.. I'm done now. lol. Thanks for reading my rambling ramble  


"My heart is like an open book, for the whole world to read"
     - Motley Crue, Home Sweet Home

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since 02-10-2000
Posts 2267
Pickering, Ontario

115 posted 11-25-2001 01:01 PM       View Profile for Marina   Email Marina   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marina

As commented above by The Lonely Stranger, my suggestion was to bring back the "unbump" feature but you have to have so many replies say 5-7 BEFORE you can bump yourself and only to a max of twice.  

Just saving those who don't have the time to read through 5 pages of the issue which has been going on since I orginally posted this.

Thanks to everyone who is still putting in their thoughts on this issue, we are all members of the Passions family and as such we are all intitled to our opinions.


It is a blessing to have wings for words and passion in pen.

Marina Crossley

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116 posted 11-25-2001 05:39 PM       View Profile for RosePetal   Email RosePetal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for RosePetal

I agree with Paula...Maybe putting a limit on how many times the original poster can bump it up will be the best way to handle this. It doesnt really matter to me either way because my poems wind up on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th page after 30 mins of me posting it.
It's all good, no matter what decision Ron comes to.

[This message has been edited by RosePetal (edited 11-26-2001).]

since 02-23-2001
Posts 489
Sunshine Coast

117 posted 11-28-2001 07:05 PM       View Profile for Bec   Email Bec   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bec

Hi All...

This certainly makes for an interesting read. However, I do have a question about how this works. I know many members, including myself, encourage constructive criticism. If another member were to read my work, and make suggestions that I don't agree with, and I post a reply to say so, how are they to know what I've said if they don't come back to my work? Although the originator of the work is made aware of replies to their post, people who post replies aren't made aware that the originator has then responded to what they have said.

Please please please don't think I'm trying to start an argument, because it seems there are some people losing their cool over this thread, I'm just asking a question.

Does this make sense? I'm almost finished semester, the ol' creative juices are going into hibernation for a while...


The past is a foreign country - they do things differently there ~ Unknown

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since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas

118 posted 11-28-2001 08:22 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Howdy Bec. To answer you question, when you reply to your originating post, it will show that in Today's Topics. Notice the timestamp when you reply to your own may not show up in today's Today's Topics, but in yesterdays (easily checked with a click on the yesterday link on TT's page). Note, this will not 'bump' your work, but it will show in TT with a muted folder color, indicating that the originator has replied to own work.

Hope that helps.

Alicat, Alley/Lounge Mod
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