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Passions in Poetry

Responding to ones own poetry.... Marina and Marina 2 ???

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suthern
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Member Seraphic
since 07-29-99
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on the threshold of a dream


25 posted 02-05-2001 09:29 AM       View Profile for suthern   Email suthern   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suthern

never mind *S*

[This message has been edited by suthern (edited 02-05-2001).]
Ron
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since 05-19-99
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Michigan, US


26 posted 02-05-2001 04:13 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I have removed about half a dozen "chit chat" posts, as I consider this an important topic. Banter is great in its place, but I think serious discussions deserve serious responses. Let's stay focused on the issues, guys.
Parker
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since 01-06-2000
Posts 3135
... the old black rum


27 posted 02-05-2001 04:32 PM       View Profile for Parker   Email Parker   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Parker's Home Page   View IP for Parker

Well, I guess my only real suggestion was no doubling up on your replies .... one right after the other... sure would eliminate extra bumps..... had some more ideas... but I have brain lock....i'll be back.

Parker
Marina
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since 02-10-2000
Posts 2267
Pickering, Ontario


28 posted 02-05-2001 05:01 PM       View Profile for Marina   Email Marina   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marina

I agree with Parker's suggestion.  I feel that no one here can dispute the fact that if your poetry is bumped back to the top, it will be read more than someone sitting in the 100th spot.  Most of us here would wait until we have several responses and were on at least page two, before we would respond. This to me is reasonable and not abusing the system.

I think there is a simple solution for this problem.  It is a matter of personal choice.  Either you respond in the post and have it bump, or people can e-mail there thank you's and not respond in their poetry.

I have been a member here now for exactly one year.  I have always enjoyed the poetry and the new friends I have made.  I received an e-mail today in regards to my "issue" with this new umbump feature.  it starts as follows...

What is the deal with you and the "unbump" feature??  You haven't written
anything in the past god knows how many months. . . not that it's important
or anything. . . but you act like it's something that affects you. . . and
since you haven't been or written at Passions in forever (or at least a
couple of weeks) why are you taking that feature to task in such a manner??


It is true I no longer post as much as I once did.  This is for personal reasons and certainly nothing to do with Passions.  I enjoy Passions just as much today as I did a year ago.  However, I AM still a member and so therefore I AM intitled to express myself as I have done in the past and will continue to do so when I feel it necessary.

I stand firm on the unbump feature.  In saying this however, I must also say that I am very grateful for all the work Ron has put into all this "new Passions."
Ijust HAD to say all that....  

Marina

Ron
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29 posted 02-05-2001 06:17 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Marina, while I certainly didn't write that letter to you, I nonetheless apologize for one of our Members doing so. EVERY person who visits this site, whether they register or not, whether they post poetry or not, has a right to voice their concerns and opinions. And they will be heard.

Frankly, this is one reason why I have very seriously considered removing email addresses from public view. Too many people seem to feel email is a viable way to circumvent courtesy. But that, I suppose, is fodder for another thread.
Marina
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since 02-10-2000
Posts 2267
Pickering, Ontario


30 posted 02-05-2001 07:17 PM       View Profile for Marina   Email Marina   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marina

Ron,

Thank you very much for your quick response in regards to this matter.  Though I most certainly apprecaite your apology, it is not necessary.  It was indeed NOT you who sent me this e-mail as you have stated and therefore it is that persons place to offer an apology.  Although I completely understand as Webmaster to this wonderful place, you have responsibilies to the members, however I feel the onus lies with the member in such cases as this.

Thanks again,
Marina
Jesse Jaymz
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since 01-24-2000
Posts 757
Youngstown, ohio


31 posted 02-06-2001 09:19 AM       View Profile for Jesse Jaymz   Email Jesse Jaymz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jesse Jaymz's Home Page   View IP for Jesse Jaymz

Marina,
i completly agree with you on this subject.  i love the bump up feature we once had.  in some forums like adult it moves slow and you dont need it.  but in places like open you post and its gone in a half hour.  and with more and more people joining everyday the forums are moving alot faster.  great peices of poem are just falling.  and personaly i dont like that.  i think the replys are just as important as the poem.  when i get a reply it makes me feel so great.  and i love thanking that person and that person seeing that thank you.  as much as we would like to, not all of us go back to the poems we read and read the replys.  especialy if it is on the 5 or 6th page bye the time we get there.  it would be inmpossible to do hat all the time.  so i love the bump feature we had.  true i dont post as much asa i would like to anymore.  alot of it is personal probloms.  but like ron said we are all member and can voice our opioin.  thats why i love this place.  and i do thank ron so much for having this place for all of us to gather and for all the things he has done.  and i hope to see it running for many more years.  thank for letting me vent  
Jesse


True beauty is often hidden in darkness...
Marina
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since 02-10-2000
Posts 2267
Pickering, Ontario


32 posted 02-06-2001 07:48 PM       View Profile for Marina   Email Marina   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marina

i have placed a couple of questions or suggestions on this issue in Q&A for those who would like to know more...
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum13/HTML/000598.html

Thanks,
Marina


[This message has been edited by Marina (edited 02-06-2001).]
Parker
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since 01-06-2000
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... the old black rum


33 posted 02-06-2001 11:07 PM       View Profile for Parker   Email Parker   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Parker's Home Page   View IP for Parker

Thanks Marina for the link, I'll check it out.

Parker
dgvarner
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since 05-13-2000
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High Springs, Florida


34 posted 02-06-2001 11:47 PM       View Profile for dgvarner   Email dgvarner   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for dgvarner


so..my two cents (and that may be all its worth..haha) goes something like this...

i love this place..but i dont have a LOT of time to spend here...the bumping of my own poetry gives me a chance to at least let people know i appreciate their reading me and leaving their key-prints on my post...even when i dont get the chance to read many of their posts (which i hate... )  sometimes all the time i have is to say thank you..and if a lot of people have stopped by my post since i last got to visit passions, that can actually take me a good bit of time, as i'm slow and thoughtful...and i dont want people to think i dont give a rip, while my post is lying stale on page 5 or 6 because it didnt go back to the top with my appreciation..

i dont always make much sense..getting from my head into words...so..i may do best just to say..i agree mostly with paula, insect, and haleyja as far as their "arguments" FOR the bump..and theyve got some good ideas...i understand that some people do abuse the bump idea where their own posts are concerned...but as has been said, they could rcv a warning..and a penalty for the abusive nature of their bumping..

i like best the idea of a specific button for those who would wish to/not to bump with their thank you replies...

btw..love the new smilies!

shutting up now...i'm the ramble queen..sorry..

hugs, g



Sven
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35 posted 02-07-2001 01:16 PM       View Profile for Sven   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sven

Okay, I'm refrencing back to the thread in Q&A for this reply. . . check it out if you'd like. . . thought that my reply belonged better here than there. . .

quote:
As I understand it the purpose of this new feature is to not bump our poems up so that they can be read, but in reality to bump them into oblivion after 3 or 4 posts.


This is totally wrong.  What the unbump feature (or should I say, "The removal of the Bump Feature"?) does has been explained before, so I will not go into it again.  

quote:
Sven, I don't think Marina is the only one that liked the old bumping process, so why pick on her.


I'm not picking on Marina, she started the thread, she gave her opinion on the subject.  I was speaking to her directly.  I even sent an e-mail apologizing to her if it seemed like I was doing as such.  That was not my intention.  

And if she is speaking for those "silent voices" then perhaps we need to hear more from them.  We have from some of them already, but if there are more of them out there, perhaps they need to make themselves more known, as well as those of you who like this feature (or rather, the removal of this feature).

I don't know about anyone else, but I look at the bumping of other poet's poems by me as a chance to say to other people, "Please look at this poem that I've found".  Sure, that might sound a little crazy, but it's how I look at it.  And yes, when that happens, other people (including myself) do get bumped down.  And yes, the author will indeed reply less than the other poets (although I don't know why we need to state that).  But I see it as part of the interaction.  The sharing of other people's poetry.  Which is one of the main reasons that we're all here. . . we not only like to write poetry, we also like to read poetry by others, and yes, have our poetry read as well.

It's not selfish to want to be read Parker. . .it's normal.  We all want to be read by others and told that our work is good, I know that I do.  But that doesn't happen all the time.  Not everyone likes my work.  Not becuase they don't like me, but because they just don't like what I write.  And that's to be expected.  You can't please everyone.  It's life.  

And yes, I am a prolific writer, and yes, there are days where a lot of my posts will be on page one at the same time.  Which is why I spend a lot of time replying to other poets, especially the ones that took the time to read and to respond to my work.  But I don't stop there. . . I try to read as much as possible. . . by as many people as possible (and yes, I know that not all of you have that luxury. . . I am merely speaking for myself)

But wait a minute. . . what happens when I respond to so many other people??  You guessed it. . . I bump myself down. . .

If someone wants to read my work, they'll find me. . . if I want to read someone else's work, I'll find them. . . if anything, another effect of the removal of this feature is that it makes you go back (beyond page 3) to look. . . which in turn, I hope, lets you see other posts by other poets that you might have missed. . .

But, there are writers here who are more prolific than I. . . would you also limit them?  Would you impose rules and regulations like I've seen on other Forums (some that limit you to only 10 posts per day!). . . or would you rather Passions be the kind of place that it is. . .where anyone can come in at anytime and know that they're going to read some of the best poetry and prose by some of the best writers in the world???

Thanks. . . I love all the new features too. . . they're excellent. . . keep it up Ron. . .  

Thanks for reading. . . and for letting me give my opinion. . .

--------------------------------------------------------------

To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.
Parker
Member Elite
since 01-06-2000
Posts 3135
... the old black rum


36 posted 02-07-2001 04:29 PM       View Profile for Parker   Email Parker   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Parker's Home Page   View IP for Parker

Just to quickly respond again....

quote:Sven
This is totally wrong. What the unbump feature (or should I say, "The removal of the Bump Feature"?) does has been explained before, so I will not go into it again.


Since its still early since the change over and removal of this feature…. I can only state my opinion with out any hard core stats. But I’ll stick with my belief. Poems will disappear into oblivion faster without that feature. This will hit the new poets harder and they will see, oblivion sooner. The regular poets will get recognized and responded to more often, this is reality …..(or my opinion of it.   ) Time will
Soon tell or maybe already is…..

quote:Sven
But wait a minute. . . what happens when I respond to so many other people?? You guessed it. . . I bump myself down. . . .


You've stated it Sven.... all your replying is just going to bump yourself and all the ones you don't reply to down to oblivion.... there is no stopping them there going down. So maybe you should reply to everybody.  

The only fair thing to do is to remove bumping altogether…. Do I want this….NO WAY. The other options I mentioned don’t thrill me too much either. I put them in as alternatives and mostly to show, that if you really want to be fair…. Then be fair all the way.

I don’t want too many restrictions put on us, either, I don’t want Passions to be like the other places, if you’ve read that into my comments
Then reread them again pal, cause that is not what I meant.

As for the issue on Marina, well I don’t want to really get into it too much, but its my opinion too. I judged it by all that I was privy to read.  
Anyway, she is speaking out for those that won’t and so are you. It just seemed like you were more concerned on putting down her opinion on this issue, when others have the same opinion. So enough said, it probably shouldn’t be part of this discussion. So I wont say anymore on it….
Unless you bring it up again….. So lets not… K

I guess we need to agree to disagree on this issue. There is always going to be two sides and that is what makes this place so diverse.
Whatever happens Passions will go on and still be great……

Oh, yes… I know its been mentioned but whats to stop a poet who creates an obvious second alias username…. Say “PoetGuy” and “PoetGuy2”  from just replying to his own posts with the second username, wont that defeat the unbump feature. This will be obvious, they’re not hiding or disguising themselves, will that become against policy. Just a thought cause its bound to happen.

Parker

I have no poetry to write…. So I’ll write this trash…


  

Ron
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37 posted 02-07-2001 07:04 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I don't have a lot of time, but I would like to add a few points.

Those who frequent the Philosophy forums will know that I am a strong proponent of "natural" systems, and believe we interfere with them at great risk. Capitalism, as just one example, works because it's based on natural "laws" like supply and demand, laws which can be quickly destroyed when governments start meddling (i.e., fixing prices). On the other hand, we need strong antitrust laws against monopolies, else Capitalism will inevitably plunge into injustice. Okay, enough economics. My point is that I believe we sometimes need to intervene in a process, while still trying very hard not to interfere. Unbump was my attempt to intervene in a process that was becoming increasingly unfair to many.

When you reply to another person's post, you are essentially saying "This is a good poem." The post shoots to the top of the page, to get a fresh start at being read. The more people who respond to that poem, the more people will get a chance to read it. In theory, the best poems get the most exposure. It's a fair, very "natural" system, and every Member here is on exactly the same footing. And, yea, I know a response isn't "always" motivated by the quality of the work. It's often motivated by the popularity of the Member, but that's just another way of saying the poet has spent their time replying to others - something we ALL want to encourage. A response can also be motivated by theme, title, time of day, and I guess whether there's a full moon or not. But, again, we're all on the same footing where those are concerned.

Bumping your own post has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the work. Neither pro nor con. I wouldn't even have a problem with that, if everyone still remained on the same footing. But the perception of politeness prevents us from all being equal in this regard. Some refuse to bump their own post, preferring to email their thanks or offer none at all. Some withhold their thanks as long as possible. And some, because they have the perception nothing is wrong with bumping their own posts, will reply to every second or third post.

NONE of those reactions are inherently wrong! But neither are they equal, and they certainly don't have anything to do with the quality of the poetry. Those who are either too meek or too polite are being punished by a system that should instead be centered around the poem and not the personality of the poet.

Sadly, there will never be a perfectly equitable system. There are people here who write poetry with meanings on several different levels, much more difficult to read, much more difficult to understand, and they typically receive fewer responses even though their very depth adds to the quality of the poetry. There are some who pursue sensationalistic, ego-enhancing themes that garner more responses than quality should dictate. But while the system is, and will likely always remain, imperfect, I do think it's pretty fair. I also think it rather closely mimics real world publishing, where buying your own book probably isn't the best way to establish high sales.

Personally, I would hate to see these forums turn into little more than a popularity contest. I'd like to think we are here to share poetry that is meaningful to us and, perhaps, to learn to do it better. We all want to be read, else we wouldn't be here. But posting at Passions is almost a guarantee you will be read, and probably appreciated, often by many more people than you realize, certainly by more than take the time to respond. Those who are seeking higher number, who are seeking popularity, have a very simple solution, one that is on an equal footing with every other Member - you need but write better, more popular poetry.

In closing, let me tell you first what I won't do, and then what I will do. I won't make an unfair system more unfair by letting some bump and other choose to not bump. People shouldn't be put at a disadvantage because they want to be polite. Nor will I add a whole bunch of rules about how many poems you can post, or how many thank you's you can extend, or whether a post on page three should be automatically brought forward because it has too few replies, or whether the third thank-you on an alternate Tuesday should be allowed to bump the thread. One of the things that has made me the most proud of our family is that our Members care as much about people as they do poetry - new people never fail to get responses and everyone watches for those occasional zero-reply posts to insure they don't get ignored. Courtesy, in my estimation, goes a whole lot farther than rules.

What I will do, however, is continue to listen. I'm under the gun right now and don't have time to respond to every argument, but I assure you I'm reading them. I honestly haven't heard one person yet tell me why they should control the destiny of their post, rather than leave it to the majority, nor has anyone suggested why their thank you is more valid than the poem it MUST replace at the top of page. But the Unbump isn't carved in stone. When everyone has had more time to accustom themselves to it, and when I am under a little less pressure, I'll try to come up with a fair way for everyone to vote on the issue. All I really want, after all, is a system that's fair to everyone.
Alicat
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since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


38 posted 02-07-2001 07:07 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

I would like to take this moment to thank all involved in this discussion for being very mature and responsible with their responses. This had made this thread, which I at first thought to attract many attacks, one of the most intriguing ones to read. And this is all due to you, the participants. This is what the Alley is for, disputation, as well as rants, raves, and complaints. And though there have been several differing opinions, the poets thus represented have offered their arguments with the highest respect towards all others. For this, I salute each and every one of you.


Alicat, Alley Moderator

[This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 02-07-2001).]
Marina
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since 02-10-2000
Posts 2267
Pickering, Ontario


39 posted 02-07-2001 07:24 PM       View Profile for Marina   Email Marina   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marina

After reading the comments placed in here today I feel I must respond once again.

Sven you said:
_____________________________________________
"I'm not picking on Marina, she started the thread, she gave her opinion on the subject.  I was speaking to her directly.  I even sent an e-mail apologizing to her if it seemed like I was doing as such.  That was not my intention."
___________________________________________

The ONLY reason you sent me an e-mail with your paper thin apology, was because you had originally sent me an unsolicated, nasty e-mail, with your "I am the heart of Passions attitude."   In which you said, and I quote

"  You haven't written
anything in the past god knows how many months but you act like it's something that affects you"

Well here is a newsflash for ya... IT DOES!!!
it affects every single person here at Passions!  I have stated all my reasons why I prefer the "bump" feature as have many others.  I 'm not going to waste everyone's time by repeating myself.  How you can still ask why I feel as I do, I have no idea!  Perhaps you simply haven't been paying attention.


You also said:
_____________________________________________But wait a minute. . . what happens when I respond to so many other people??  You guessed it. . . I bump myself down. . .
_____________________________________________


Every true!!!  So then why is it then that you always respond to others first and then yourself??  If you respond to yourself last, doesn't this put your poem on the top???


The Alley is a place to state your opinions and voice your concerns.  It is also for mature adults. This issue is not suppose to be based on who you are, how often you post, or how often you post to others.  We all just want to be read....that's all.


In the words of Forrest Gump..." And that's all I got to say about that."     


It is a blessing to have wings for words, and passion in pen
Marina Crossley


Marina
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since 02-10-2000
Posts 2267
Pickering, Ontario


40 posted 02-07-2001 07:30 PM       View Profile for Marina   Email Marina   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marina

As I had placed my previous post prior to reading Ron and Alicat's, I would like to say thank you to Ron for reading and listening, and also for being patient with my ravings!!

Thanks,
Marina
pegasus111
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since 07-27-2000
Posts 2226
ocala, fl, usa


41 posted 02-07-2001 07:32 PM       View Profile for pegasus111   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit pegasus111's Home Page   View IP for pegasus111

I'll wait to see how it works and what changes are made, if any, to help resolve the obvious differences of opinion. I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this.

the woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep, and many miles to go before I sleep...Frost


Swamp¤Faeryie
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since 12-04-2000
Posts 395
fairyland....of course;)


42 posted 02-07-2001 07:39 PM       View Profile for Swamp¤Faeryie   Email Swamp¤Faeryie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Swamp¤Faeryie

i agree entirely with insect.I liked the old way best. First of all,thank you's are very important,and they also provided an opportunity to answer any questions from commentors,and i thought the old way was beneficial in keeping conversations going. And i also think that having the opportunity to bump your poem back up was a good thing,poems can be easily missed because they go down to fast. I confess sometimes when i've been away for a day i don't always go back to read things from the day i missed,but when the poet replies with a thank you and zips it back to the top the poem get's another "round" so to speak,then i may see it,and get the chance to reply. That's the method i use with my own poetry.i usually let the poem go until it's at the very bottom  before i do a thank you,that way i can do it all in "one whack" and reply to all those who have posted comments in one reply. However,i often find that after doing so i get more comments from people who hadn't spotted it,or were gone.

thanks for the chance to share the opinion

sammi


Do i contradict myself?Very well i contradict myself.I contain multitudes.~walt whitman
Sven
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43 posted 02-07-2001 08:14 PM       View Profile for Sven   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sven

The reason that I sent you that apology Marina was that I did indeed feel that I had taken you to task far more than perhaps you deserved. . . but, I do feel that you reacted quite strongly for someone who hadn't been here in a while. . . that's my opinon and you or anyone else doesn't have to like it. . . again, I apologize for taking you to task . . .

Now then. . .

If you would have quoted the rest of my e-mail to you. . . (and I chide myself for not saving a copy of it). . . people would have seen that I said that you were a member, that you'll always be a member no matter what, and that you're entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else. . . including me. . . and I also encouraged you to begin posting more and said that you were missed here, not only by me. . . but by other members of Passions as well. . . you're an excellent writer Marina. . . I've always felt so. . . you've come a long way from your beginnings here at Passions. . . as have we all. . . and it would be a shame to let that gift that you have go to waste just because you don't feel that your writing is being seen by enough people.

Let me say something else. . . some of my poetry gets a lot of replies. . . most of it however, gets more moderate amounts. . . do I feel bad because I don't get as many replies as some of the more (for lack of a better word) popular members of Passions?  No, I write what I write. . . and if someone likes it, if someone is inspired by it, if someone takes the time to tell me that they've enjoyed it. . . that's all that I need. . . even if no one responded. . . I'm sure that someone will have at least read. . . for there are lots of people here who read, but don't reply. . . and I reply to as many poems as I can. . . I love everything that I read here. . . daily I am moved to tears, laughter, joy, and so many other emotions by the superb and talented writers of this site. . . I feel honored and humbled to be here with them. . . I have learned much from them. . . and I will always be grateful for the lessons that I have taken from them. . . thank you People of Passions!!!!!!

And I have never responded to other people first and then myself. . . in fact, I've responded to myself first and then to other people. . .but you know what Marina?. . . it doesn't matter if I did or if I didn't. . . because Passions moves so quickly. . . even if I did post to myself last to put myself on top. . . I didn't stay there long. . .

Now then as for your words on my "I am the Heart of Passions attitude". . . let me just say that I love Passions. . . it's a part of me. . . I love the people that I've met here. . . I love the community that we have here. . . I love the poetry that I'm honored and blessed to read here every day. . . I love it as much as anyone else here. . . but probably not as much as Ron. . . if any one person is the "Heart of Passions" it's Ron. . . this is something that he has put his heart, his soul, and his life into. . . and he does it without being paid for it. . . without making us pay for it. . . and with very little fanfare. . . he does it because he knows the power of the written word. . . he does it because it's a part of him, it's his dream. . . he does it because he loves this place and everyone in it. . . and we all know it. . . I am not the heart of Passions. . . I'm just someone that's lucky and blessed to be a part of it. . . as are you. . . and everyone that's ever been here and will be here. . . thank you Ron!!

And now. . . having had my say. . . I will leave. . . thanks to Alicat for letting us conduct this discussion here. . .and to Ron for listening and watching. . . thanks also to you Marina, for bringing up this point that has a lot of people talking. . . and for taking the time to respond to me. . . you have my utmost thanks. . .

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.


[This message has been edited by Sven (edited 02-07-2001).]
Ron
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since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


44 posted 02-07-2001 10:10 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

As I said before, I think this is an important topic. Let's return to it, please, and try not to get side-tracked...
Lone Wolf
Member Ascendant
since 03-16-2000
Posts 5900
Lansing, MI USA


45 posted 02-07-2001 10:17 PM       View Profile for Lone Wolf   Email Lone Wolf   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Lone Wolf

I for one feel that the new unbump feature is wonderful and I hope we keep it.  Why do I think this?  Because it puts the focus back where it belongs on the poetry, not on the replies.

Now, I agree with Ron that interaction among the membership is a positive thing and is important.  But, I do not feel it is more important than the poetry.

If I write a poem and it drops to page four with only three replies, then so be it.  I am glad that I can thank those people for replying without dropping someone else's post from page one just for the simple reason I wanted to say thank you to three people.

If I like a certain poet's writing, then you can bet I will take the time to search the pages and look for their work.  Then again, if I want to be sure not to miss anything they write, I will just add that poet to my library.  It is simple and hastle free.

I do not, however, agree with Parker that Marina's plea to bring back the unbump feature is in the majority.  I think many of us, including me, have been reading these discussions and following along silently.  God only knows what their opinion really is.  

I just chose to make mine known here.  The only way we'll all know for sure is if we can somehow vote on this.  

Ron, is there a possibility of voting like we have voted on the main page for the new features we like?  Except, make it so that you have to sign in to vote?  That way you could ensure only one vote per member is cast and that only members have a say in this.  Just a suggestion.

Thank you for listening.  And I will go on record as saying I agree with Sven!
Parker
Member Elite
since 01-06-2000
Posts 3135
... the old black rum


46 posted 02-07-2001 10:39 PM       View Profile for Parker   Email Parker   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Parker's Home Page   View IP for Parker

Well, just to defend myself.... Lone Wolf.
I said that there were others that like that feature, but nowhere did I state that it was the majority. For all I really know I'm in the minority, but since I don't have stats who knows. I just know based on the replies that their are members in both camps. So please don't quote me if your going to get it wrong, because I would not make such a blatant fact less remark.  
Anyway, Ron has spoken… and he made way too much sense as always. I enjoyed being apart of this thread and arguing my point. If I said anything to offend anyone, it was in the heat of the moment, and
I apologize if I stepped out of line……

The bump is dead…… long live the bump.

Parker
kaile
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Ascendant
since 02-06-2000
Posts 5323
singapore


47 posted 02-08-2001 03:26 AM       View Profile for kaile   Email kaile   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kaile

hi everyone,

i know i declared my departure but i have been lurking every now and then and have been following this thread with interest...

i decided to make my opinion known because Lone wolf did and i just thought more voices should be heard?

i preferred the bump option...i agree with you, ron that a good poem is sufficient to attract readers on its own merits and that bumping wont be necessary...

but in the forums where everything moves rather fast, poetry gets dropped to the fourth or fifth page an hour or so just after you posted it....

personally, i feel no one is going to search hard for my writings if they are on the back pages and bumping just offers me another chance for my writings to be read....

the amount of responses that one gets is rather dependent on whether the person has established good relationships with the fellow poets in pip....i believe some of us have the habit of just responding to our friends or people we have come to know and just ignore the rest, for lack of time or other such reasons....

nothing can feel worse than seeing something you put in a lot of effort into drooping into goodness knows why while something written by a fellow poet recevining lots responses because he/she is popular, has established his/her voice, has formed cliques etc....

its very well to say that people feel embarrassed about bumping their own posts...they are either well loved for their unique brand of poetry(just like you, sven  ) or have built up strong ties with others, so they dont have to worry about their posts being relegated to the backwoods...

what about struggling poets like me who dont really write awe-inspiring poetry and dont really get to know the poets here personally? if i see my posts in the fourth or fifth pages, do i just ignore them or do i bump them up, hoping for them to be read?

i chose the latter because comments are important to me...after all thats why we all write...i understand that improving my poetry will generate me more replies and we are all in the process of striving to better oursleves but does that mean that our writings should not get attention just because they are cliched and amauterish?....

i guess i sound blunt and harsh....i apologise...but though i bump, i do think that i do not manipulate the system..i reply more than i post or i post a new poem in an old thread(now, surely thats a good reason for bumping a thread..so that people may read the second poem  ), wary that i take up unnecessary bandwidth....in fact sometimes i just post a second poem under an old thread because i feel insecure about the writing and dont have courage to post it under an entirely new thread....

its my humble opinion that moral judgements not be imposed on us bumpers...firstly, people get more responses becuase their friends will read and encourage them...secondly, we all want to be heard, thats all....

i agree with ron though either bump or unbump...no middle option..thats only fair and i believe we virgos always strive to be fair,(LOL, Sven)

just a humble opinion
and i hope all is well



[This message has been edited by kaile (edited 02-08-2001).]
Acies
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 06-07-2000
Posts 14805
Twilight Zone


48 posted 02-08-2001 10:26 AM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

Ron -- I see this thread is still going on.

Can I make 1 suggestion?
here it goes

Why don't we allow members to be able to bump their poems only once or once every certain amount of time, just to satisfy everyone.  This allows the poet to wait till others have really stopped replying to their post before they reply back.  After this, they can only bump it back up again after a certain amount of time.  

This gives poets the chance to tell others that they have replied back to their questions about his poem, at the same time, it will prevend others who only bump their poems up each and every time out of selfish reasons.


I see no changes, wake up in the morning I ask myself, "Is life worth living or should I blast myself" TUPAC SHAKUR


Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


49 posted 02-08-2001 11:13 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I think we should keep the suggestions coming and personally, I'd like to see more conversation from more people here..we haven't seen a lot of other members discussing this. So if you know of someone who hasn't put in their 'two cents' please encourage them to do so.

And I can imagine some of these suggestions would be difficult to program with this software..hmm?
 
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