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Passions in Poetry

New forum needed??????? who knows...what do you think?

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Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 06-21-2000
Posts 7338
In the winds of Cherokee song


0 posted 11-12-2000 01:42 PM       View Profile for Mark Bohannan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mark Bohannan

As of late, there have been some very sensual pieces
put up in the open forums and I must admit to guilt in this as well.  There are some poems that push the borders of sensuality and eroticism that really don't deserve to be put in the adult forum but being that it is the only place to put them as of now, do you think that we need a new forum for just this type of poetry.  One where the eroticism and sensuality could be expressed as long as it does not delve into the graphic nature of sex.  I know that we have quite a few forums already but should we include a sort of "R" rated one without having to go straight to the "XXX" forum for all those poems that fall in between the family guidelines and the hardcore?  Would be interested in all of your comments.  I think it is worth consideration only in the fact that maybe it would make the decisions of the moderators more helpful and also lose the risk of offending some visitors to the open forums and still leave the free expression of the poets at it's purest level.  Thank you in advance for any and all comments either way.
Skyfyre
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since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


1 posted 11-12-2000 03:02 PM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

Mark:

The problem with creating this type of forum is that someone will be called upon to make the hairline decisions between it and Open, or between it and Adult.  A poem may be judged "not suitable for children" for many reasons, and those reasons will vary from person to person.  What I allow my children to watch on TV may be different than what you find permissible for yours -- this is sort of the same situation.  So tell me ... who's right?  Should my kids follow your rules or should yours follow mine?

The Adult forum at Passions is well-established, and thanks to Ron and Sharon, well-run.  The age-limit there is 18: only one year higher than the unsupervised age-limit for an "R" rated movie.  I think it would be unrealistic for us to assume that most of the underage persons who visit our site are actually "supervised" while surfing.  As such, in my opinion at least, there is no reason to create another forum specifically for our 17-year-old members and future members.  Admittedly, they see enough of "rated R" on TV -- why should we risk our credibility as a responsible web site by further reinforcing that genre?

Sorry, Mark.  I appreciate a good sensual/erotic poem as much as the next poet, but I don't think they need their own forum.  Seventeeners: learn some patience!  

Respectfully,

--Linda


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.
Dopey Dope
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since 08-30-2000
Posts 15536
San Juan, Puerto Rico


2 posted 11-12-2000 04:40 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Well I'm one of those seventeeners you're talking about and all I have to say is that it wouldn't make much of a difference to me.



I was born myself, raised myself, and will continue to be myself. The world will just have to adjust.

I hate your socks. I'd like to burn them!

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


3 posted 11-12-2000 06:34 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I must agree with both Linda and Dopey Dope (especially Dopey, him being the sexiest man alive, and all...) why not let's just utilize what we have? That is eroticism, after all...I promise herewith to behave, and send me yearnings to Adult---where it belongs...and I apologize here for my previous indiscretions.  Hugs.
Temptress
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since 06-15-99
Posts 7276
Mobile, AL


4 posted 11-12-2000 10:48 PM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

Well, I'll jump on here.  I think this is a good idea, but even still any new forum for erotic and sensual poems (without such graphic wording or descriptions) should still require a password and permission for use pertaining to age.  That way, the hairline decisions wouldn't have to be made, because no children would see it anyway.  I'll grumble here a bit to say that a lot of more soft sensual poems in adult have been passed up and ignored on occasion for the more graphic and hardcore poems.  Yes..yes..Adult is sometimes slower, but still this happens whether it is slow or not.  I wouldn't think it would be difficult to determine which poetry was suitable for which private forum at all.

*Jenn*


My name isn't Baby, and I don't want to cyber.
Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


5 posted 11-12-2000 11:32 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

I'll let y'all hash this out together (you might be surprised to know the subject's come up before...) But I did want to clear up what seems to be a fairly common misconception about the Adult forum.

quote:
(Adults Only) This forum is set aside for more mature topics.


Nowhere does it say that the Adult forum is a place strictly for "XXX," as you worded it so eloquently Mark, poetry. The Adult forum is for topics (such as sexual innuendo) which are more mature in nature. Mature is not limited to "smut" poetry. It can be about virtually anything viewed from a mature perspective. A point of fact, is that you would be hard put to find many things in that forum which are on that extreme end of things. (This of course depends on your point of view.) It has restrictions much as the other forums do. The ones it does not have, conversely, are those on subject matter... to a degree. Even there, we have had people "cross the line."

There is some incredible work in the Adult forum, and there is much that you would have a hard time convincing me deserved a "XXX" rating.
Dopey Dope
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
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since 08-30-2000
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San Juan, Puerto Rico


6 posted 11-13-2000 01:40 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

I agree with serenity.....I am the sexiest man alive!



I was born myself, raised myself, and will continue to be myself. The world will just have to adjust.

I hate your socks. I'd like to burn them!

Lakewalker
Member Elite
since 08-05-2000
Posts 3939
On the streets w/ people


7 posted 11-13-2000 02:39 PM       View Profile for Lakewalker   Email Lakewalker   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Lakewalker

Woah Dopey, control yourself!

"Disagreements stimulate thought, thought stimulates action, and action stimulates life." --Me!!

http://www.thehungersite.com
Wilfred Yeats
Member Elite
since 08-04-2000
Posts 2916
Wilmington, Delaware


8 posted 11-13-2000 03:15 PM       View Profile for Wilfred Yeats   Email Wilfred Yeats   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Wilfred Yeats's Home Page   View IP for Wilfred Yeats

I've been one of those mavericks - who has a very difficult time understanding the prudery of the American audience in general.

I'll explain that below but first let me say I agree with Temptress and Mark.  I wholeheartedly endors the idea.

How many of those who want to shield our "children" from explicit sex (or any sex) are keeping their children from reading the bible - in particular - the songs of solomon?

How many were and are incensed by the quantity of violence and killing in graphic detail - that is presented in regular television and movies without sex - specifically places like the History channel, the discovery channel, and the learning channel, schwartzenegger movies, friday the 13th movies etc. -- and didn't get their dander 'up' until sex reared its head? Frankly I'm FAR MORE INCENSED  by voilence than Sex - Expressions of love do not result in ugly death.
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


9 posted 11-13-2000 05:38 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

i think it's a great idea.

i often write pieces with a sensual overtone and phrasing that could be considered "adult" in nature, but frankly, rarely post in the adult forum because, whether it was the original intent or not, most often the works posted in the adult forum are quite explicit and i feel like my poetry doesnt' belong there... there are pieces i've never posted at passions because they are too sensual for open, and i don't want to place them in the adult forum because i don't think they fit well there

there's a middle road and hollywood calls it "R"... and sometimes here at passions i don't know where certain pieces i write "R" welcome.

and i agree with jenn-temptress that this new proposed forum could be password protected by age, just as the adult forum is so there wouldn't be any problem there with making hairline decisions

well, i R done - and you all R fine with me, so just carry on and Rticulate your Rguments without an becoming disRmed... hehe  

(hey, but there's also the other side to this issue which is how large this site is and the difficult job the moderators and ron already undertake so i R no big influence here, i think, but thanks for letting me speak... HUH? what do you MEAN you didn't let me!!??   ok, so i admit it, i R outspoken and i R just me so R all of you so X me out if y'wanna, but i'll just keep on writing and rambling and DRIVING ALL OF YOU CRAZY!! hehe *grin)

- all you can ever really ask out of life is a sincere apology and some decent poetry -

[This message has been edited by doreen peri (edited 11-13-2000).]
Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


10 posted 11-13-2000 07:27 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Hey Wil... For what it's worth.. Violence is definitely not condoned here.  If a post is graphically violent and/or glorifies harm to others or to the poet themself, it's subject to edit.... Thankfully, it's a very rare happenstance around here..
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


11 posted 11-13-2000 11:47 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Let's "edit" Nan's response... LOL

It's subject to editing or deletion.  
Wilfred Yeats
Member Elite
since 08-04-2000
Posts 2916
Wilmington, Delaware


12 posted 11-14-2000 01:00 PM       View Profile for Wilfred Yeats   Email Wilfred Yeats   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Wilfred Yeats's Home Page   View IP for Wilfred Yeats

Hey Nan - I hope you didn't think I was suggesting that graphice violence should be condoned or is condoned here or anywhere else - I just felt that - unlike the popular media in other countries - i.e. Italy & France, this nation (not this forum) displays a level of hypocrisy not seen since Christ decried the Scribes & Pharisees.
Poet deVine
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since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


13 posted 11-14-2000 01:48 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine


I waited to reply to this post to see if there was a clear consensus on the idea for a new forum. But now, I feel I should put in my 34 cents (the price of a stamp beginning in January).

There wasn’t always an Adult Forum. It was created when the poetry in Open got a bit on the ‘adult’ side (ok, I admit it – it was me!!!). It was Ron’s idea to have a place to post poetry that would not be suitable for the younger readers and to maintain the family oriented spirit that makes Passions such a wonderful home. He asked me to moderate it, and I agreed. Then came the problem of what was acceptable in Adult. I felt I could not impose my views of what is acceptable on anyone but I felt that we should not shun those with views that were different, therefore, I took the guidelines for Passions and tailored them for the forum.

Violence in and of itself is not allowed and especially violence against someone else (be it a sexual or physical attack).

There is a lot I would say about some of the acceptable posts, but feel uncomfortable discussing them in this forum where younger readers could see them. (If you wish to know please email me and I’ll explain my position.) Sexuality is in the eye of the beholder. What I find to be good erotic poetry, someone may find tame. What others think is good, I may find too explicit. But this forum does not belong to me. It belongs to the members of PiP. Therefore, THEY set the tone. If no one posts the beautiful, sensual poetry that Mark and Ron K. Fox wrote, then we are deprived of reading such lovely words. If all that is posted is of a specific hard core genre, then that’s all we’ll have to read.

We’ve had many different ‘cycles’ in Adult. We’ve enjoyed the humor and camaraderie of some very funny poems. We’ve had poems that challenge our tolerance and compassion. Recently, we had an influx of new poets who do write with a more sensual tone. But also, we’ve had a few poets who posted and didn’t reply at all! I call them the ‘post and run’ poets. As with any forum, replying to someone’s work is essential to keep the forum alive. I could reply to each poem, but that defeats the purpose of the forum.

I do not feel the Adult Forum is XXX rated. I’m not even sure what that means. Who determines what is X and what is XXX? Not I. My mother’s opinion differs from mine in what we consider pornographic and that’s a good thing! We are different and have different views. But here at Passions, we must adhere to the guidelines that were created to keep the Open Forum family oriented.

I feel if we create another forum and not put a password on it, we will be faced with a multitude of nightmares and would not solve the problem. Younger readers still would have access to the poetry there. If we put a password on it, aren’t we in effect recreating what is already available?

If you want to make the Adult Forum a place for the poetry with “sensual overtones and phrasing” “where the eroticism and sensuality could be expressed as long as it does not delve into the graphic nature of sex” then I urge you to join us there. It will become the place you seek. But unless you are willing to help create it and dedicated to maintaining it, the tone will revert to what you’ve described as hard core and XXX rated. Complaints from the members determine what is acceptable or not in Adult. Therefore, what’s in Adult now is there because no one complained.

Passions in Poetry Forums – all of them – are yours. YOU make them what they are! I challenge you (and fully support you) to come to Adult and make it what you want!
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


14 posted 11-14-2000 06:55 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

sharon? you are just the most eloquent lady.
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


15 posted 11-14-2000 08:10 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Sharon I couldn't agree more!
RainbowGirl
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since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


16 posted 11-15-2000 10:16 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Ok time for me to go to bed but here's my take on the subject...

I think there's nothing nicer that the warm feeling a seductive poem can give but if it's over-stretches the boundaries and becomes embarrasing then you're more likely to turn the page, just as you would with a book...but we all read different books don't we?

So, what each finds embarrasing could become something of a misnomer...i.e. when I watch something containing blood and gore I cover my eyes and peek through them but someone else may merely laugh and say "tomato sauce"...likewise if some guy presents himself to me with no clothes on, what's there to find?

If you lay it all on the line what is there to uncover?  

Give me seduction, warm me up and send me to sleep with something on my mind but please don't show me that there is nothing left to unwrap cause it spoils all the fun and leaves nothing for my imagination to run riot with...*g*

Maybe I'm just a treasure hunter...LOL

Wilfred Yeats
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since 08-04-2000
Posts 2916
Wilmington, Delaware


17 posted 11-15-2000 11:58 PM       View Profile for Wilfred Yeats   Email Wilfred Yeats   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Wilfred Yeats's Home Page   View IP for Wilfred Yeats

I hate 'beating a dead horse' but with all due respect - I must speak again - While everything Sharon says is true. (She speaks so eloquently.) I feel there is justification for a 'R' forum - with the same PW restruction as Adult now enjoys.
My reasoning is this: Balladeer is firmly suggesting that the guidelines for Open will be more rigidly enforced. AND Experience has taught many of us that those who would read our "borderline" pieces in Open WILL NOT go to Adult. They MIGHT go to a 'R' forum. (One like the holiday forum) - Perhaps a experimental 'R' forum trial run might be in order.
Poet deVine
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18 posted 11-16-2000 12:21 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Bill, you said:

"Experience has taught many of us that those who would read our "borderline" pieces in Open WILL NOT go to Adult. They MIGHT go to a 'R' forum. (One like the holiday forum)"

We have many 'lurkers' in Adult. You'd be surprised how many ask for access that never post! And why wouldn't they go read it if they are the right age? What's wrong with Adult?
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


19 posted 11-16-2000 11:15 AM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

What connotates X? or XXX? hmmm... that's a good question.

I think there are subjects & topics & a way of presenting wording which i graphically  exceed "sensuality" and that could connotate an X or XXX - those subjects, topics, and presentation techniques include: sado-masochism, overt descriptive phrases & terms referring to specific body parts, descriptive wording of acts of sexuality described in a manner that includes graphic details and a blow-by-blow account of intimate relations.

On the other hand, in my opinion, poems which instead imply, suggest, metaphorically refer to, or use imagery or double-entendres which can be considered sensual -- are not X or XXX -- but could be considered R.

There is definitely a difference between Hustler Magzine and Playboy, for instance, and I'm certain nobody would disagree with that.

As you said, Sharon, these are subjective opinions... what is X to one person, may be XXX to another, what is G to one person, may be R to another.

Sharon, you said:
"If we put a password on it, aren’t we in effect recreating what is already available?"

And I would answer with a NO, and this is why --

When i write a piece with sexual innuendos, metaphors, or allusions using terminology not as graphic as my definition of X above but instead of an R nature (and of course, i realize these are MY definitions), there is nowhere to post it at Passions, except in Adult. But posting it in Adult can sometimes  place it next to other poems which are considerably more graphic in nature and fall within my definition of X or even XXX. This makes me uncomfortable, and I know that's just me, but it's me... so... that's how i feel.

Recently I posted a poem called "We Deliver 2" in Adult because it was clearly unsuitable for Open. But, I didn't feel it belonged sitting next to a poem about torture, which made me feel quite uncomfortable.  

Yes, I am one of your "hit-&-run" occasional Adult posters because I do not particularly enjoy reading explicit language written by strangers and therefore I don't reply.... It's just not my thing. So? That's just me. When I go to post in Adult because my poem doesn't fit in Open, I always skim through the posted poems, and if I see something I feel comfortable with reading and responding, I do. If i don't, I don't.

So, all of this is my opinion, but I guess it would have to be, huh, because I'm the one typing this!! LOL  

Therefore, I believe there is a place for a password protected forum for 'sensual-erotic' poetry here at Passions and I don't believe it is recreating something which is already available.

(But... hey... I don't HAVE to post everything I write here, either.... I could just share those poems with my Muse... LOL... )

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts    
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


20 posted 11-16-2000 12:05 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

See Doreen - I always KNEW you were trouble...
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


21 posted 11-16-2000 12:53 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

Christopher...

i'm shocked!


        

admit it... you've taught me everything i know~! (well almost)  


[This message has been edited by doreen peri (edited 11-16-2000).]
Poet deVine
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22 posted 11-16-2000 06:51 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I still disagree. The Adult Forum us what WE make it. If no one complains about the poetry posted there, it will remain. I am not the judge..nor do I want to be.

I invision a continual squabble about what is and isn't sensuous and taxing the patience of members whose work is dragged from one forum to another because the Moderators, who have to keep track of the content, feel that post is inappropriate for that specific forum.

And that said, I think it's ultimately up to Ron to decide.  
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


23 posted 11-16-2000 09:25 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

i cannot judge.

i cannot complain.

i have no judgement over ANYTHING that anybody writes. It's fine with me.

seriously.

as a matter of fact, i applaud the fact that there is a place for people to write whatever they want.

That's the glory of it all.

i am not about to go into a forum and complain about the writings of others.

i said all the rest i had to say above which included that there are already a lot of forums and the moderators are alreay busy and i'm not pressed for this at all....


[This message has been edited by doreen peri (edited 11-16-2000).]
PanDol
Senior Member
since 03-11-2000
Posts 1273
USA


24 posted 11-17-2000 11:20 PM       View Profile for PanDol   Email PanDol   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PanDol

OK, I have a lot to say about all of this but I'll TRY and
keep it as short as I can!  


First off, I have mixed feelings about this comment:
quote:
There are some poems that push the borders of sensuality and eroticism that really don't deserve to be put in the adult forum

Ok, I would like to know just who should be the judge of that.
I have read a few pieces in adult that have offended me, but I just discontinued reading and moved on.
I just don't think this was a fair comment to make.


And, to what Sharon has said, agreed %100 on the "post & Run" poets.
I do agree, for the most part,....BUT....
I fear that if more poets start to come into adult wanting to post sensual only and begin to "complain" about what's being posted, where does that leave the rest of the poets who prefer to post more graphic pieces?
I walk a fine line because I post many levels of adult pieces....from loving to graphic.
Though I do understand both sides of this,
I guess my feelings are mixed.


Isn't there some way this can be done with out opening another forum?
Is there some way each piece can be labeled somehow along with the title to warn readers of it's content?
Just a thought.......

And last....
Doreen....I have read your pieces the few times that you've posted in adult and I LOVED them. I'm sorry you feel that they don't "fit" or belong there.
I for one am not one to frown on a piece just because it's not graphic enough!
Let me just say this......if I could write like that, I would!  

JMO on this matter.......
You all have a good night now, ya' hear!


~PanDol

 
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