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Copyright infringement? My god, how far has capitalism taken us?

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Deranger
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since 05-10-2000
Posts 528
Somewhere, between here and th


0 posted 08-25-2000 07:20 PM       View Profile for Deranger   Email Deranger   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Deranger


I recently read the announcement titled "Whose poem is it?", and I have to say Iím disgusted.  Donít worry I not necessarily aiming any disgust at Passions.  In fact, I really enjoy my experience at your fine website, you provide an invaluable resource to many and ask nothing in return, itís very commendable.
But I was a tad disturbed when I find threads locked because they simply arenít written by the poster.  The reason : Copyright Infringement.  The root of the reason: Money.  Green, cash, dinero, whatever you want to call it.  Everybody wants it, the people who have it want nothing more then to get more, enter ďgreedĒ.   The point is, the posters (who post work that is not there own) are trying to share the original authorís message, and possible make a few people feel better.  Certainly thatís not a crime, is it? Thatís the whole idea behind poetry, (influencing peoples emotional state) it was never meant to be hindered by a capitalistic society hell-bent on making a couple of bucks.
Though I understand your legal obligations,  I cannot condone the force that drives them.  Thatís ok, people are entitled to their own opinions, thatís yours, this is mine.

Thank you for your time,


Cordially,
Alex Crino  

Poet deVine
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since 05-26-99
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Hurricane Alley


1 posted 08-25-2000 07:46 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Believe it or not, copyright infringement is very serious. Even Shakespeare was accused of not writing his work! It is sad that this has to be....but such is life. If you like, I have some good info on copyrights that I could email you.
Denise
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since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


2 posted 08-25-2000 07:53 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Alex, while I'm sure greed is a problem in some corners, I'm sure it isn't the reason behind the copyright law. When someone writes something, the law states it is theirs and theirs alone to do with as they wish...it is not for others to decide who and when to share it with without the author's express permission. Often there is no monetary consideration, but permission is still reqired of the author of the work, plain and simple. If a fee is requested by the author or by the author's heirs, then so be it, that is their right under the law. I believe that this holds true up to 75 years after the author's death.....not quite sure on that point, but it's something like that. The law is there for a reason, that reason being to protect a persons 'creation' from unauthorized profiteering or other benefit of something that is rightfully the author's....makes perfect sense to me. I have had requests from people to use pieces that I have written. I have no problem with that, as long as I am asked. Now if they want to use it for reasons other than just personal, such as making cards or whatever and plan on making money from it, then you better believe that I would want in on the deal and would draw up some sort of contract for my fair share!

Denise
Rex
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since 06-29-2000
Posts 484
Houston, Texas


3 posted 08-25-2000 05:37 PM       View Profile for Rex   Email Rex   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Rex's Home Page   View IP for Rex

dsnyder.....You are correct.  The law was changed not long ago from 50 to 75 years after death. Regards.
Deranger
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since 05-10-2000
Posts 528
Somewhere, between here and th


4 posted 08-26-2000 05:04 PM       View Profile for Deranger   Email Deranger   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Deranger

Thank you for taking time to reply,

But I believe you have all missed the true point of my letter, post or whatever.  Monetary motivation wasnít my true concern, if I could refer you back to this line from my original post, ďThe point is, the posters (who post work that is not there own) are trying to share the original authorís message, and possible make a few people feel better.Ē  
The locking of non-member poetry is my concern here, not capitalism.  I donít think its right or fair to deny people the authors message on the grounds of non-membership.  As long as the poster doesnít make a habit out of it, I donít see the problem.

Again, thank you for your time.
  


[This message has been edited by Deranger (edited 08-26-2000).]
Ron
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since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


5 posted 08-26-2000 05:50 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I wish I had a bit more spare time to properly address this issue, but will have to settle for merely touching upon a few points. Points, I feel, are important ones.

Posting Stephen King's latest novel on the Internet would be a great way to share the author's message and could possibly make a few people feel better (or worse, depending on how scary the novel is). But I can pretty much guarantee you King (and his lawyers) would be something less than appreciative. It's perfectly acceptable to quote a paragraph or two of the novel in your signature (it's called "fair use" doctrine), but not acceptable to publish large portions of the book without the author's approval.

Should a poet be treated any differently than a novelist? Certainly, the work of the poet is often much shorter, making the Net publication easier, but a poem is as much a work in its "entirety" as is the novel. Is it only a "little" infringement because the work is short? And in many, many cases I think the poet put in more work and a LOT more heart and soul than I've ever seen in King's work. Using a few lines of a poem for a signature is acceptable ("fair use"), but publishing the entire poem is not. Any more than it's right to publish an entire novel.

But, let's set aside legality for a moment. Rod McKuen probably didn't make as much money on "Listen to the Warm" as King did on "Misery." You might even convince me McKuen didn't put in as much effort. And while I have absolutely no doubt we would hear from a few lawyers were we to publish King here, I would like to think McKuen would look around at the caliber of people posting and feel pretty welcome at Passions. He probably wouldn't mind someone sharing his work here. I'd like to think that - but I really don't know.

Do you think McKuen would appreciate seeing his poetry on a porn site? Or posted next to a poem advocating racial supremacy and hate? I doubt it. I know I'm a bit fussy about where my poetry is posted, as I suspect most writers are. Now, whether McKuen would want his work posted at Passions, or whether someone's brother's girlfriend's mother's boss's nephew would want their work posted at Passion will always be conjecture - until and unless the poet gives their permission. And the only permissions that works for me is to have the author post the poetry.

McKuen or someone's nephew isn't likely to lose any money by having their poetry posted at Passions. And I don't really expect to have a lawyer knocking on my door. This issue isn't about money, nor even about following the strict letter of the law, although I think both of those should be important to an artist.

This issue is about respect.

As a writer, I would hope that people would have enough respect for me to ask permission before posting my work somewhere. I know that won't always happen. There are plenty of places on the Internet where you can find copyrighted poetry, copyrighted lyrics, and even a few of those copyrighted novels by King. But I figure if I want respect then I better damn well be willing to give it. So you won't find them at Passions.
Nan
Administrator
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since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


6 posted 08-27-2000 01:38 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Case in point -

A few days ago I had the privilege of meeting a direct descendent of a great American (deceased) poet... I showed her the Passions site, beginning at the main site - We took some time to look over the "Classic" section with best of the "late greats"....

She was very curious as to why her great-grandfather was not included, since he was one of the best known of our contemporary poets.  I, on the other hand, was proud to be able to tell her the reason - that she and her family hold the copyright to his work.  
She was totally pleased that Passions stands upon that sort of integrity.  I, of course, was also glad.

Imagine how I would have felt if we had improperly included his work and she had found it - told me it was an infringement - etc...I wouldn't have been a happy poet ...  
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


7 posted 08-27-2000 11:13 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Very good case in point, Nan. I'm proud to be a part of this wonderful place that holds integrity in such high regard.

Denise
Parker
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since 01-06-2000
Posts 3135
... the old black rum


8 posted 09-02-2000 03:09 AM       View Profile for Parker   Email Parker   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Parker's Home Page   View IP for Parker

I'd like to say the idea of sharing a poets work is a commendable idea... except that you should ask permission.... I had a poem of mine posted on a website without my permission. I was honored that the website owner enjoyed my poem, but was not impressed with the errors that were put in the poem... first off they didn't use my name, and that is the most important issue. I'm not looking for monetary return on my poetry. But its my poetry and I want to be asked if another wants to share it and to know where its being shared. I think itís pretty arrogant to think that the idea of sharing the work makes it an honorable cause. I share my work where I feel it should be shared. Whatís the big labor in asking for permission. If I found your beautiful sports car with the keys in it, is it ok for me to take all my buddies for a ride in it because I want them to know how amazing it is....... I'm sure you would be impressed..... Have the courtesy to ask the author, otherwise you are assuming that you know what the author thinks, and if you do that then that is arrogant and you are a fool.

Parker



[This message has been edited by Haleyja (edited 09-02-2000).]
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