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Passions in Poetry

Popularity Contest??

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Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


0 posted 07-15-2000 01:40 AM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

It's been a long time since I've felt the need to show my face in this forum (with the exception of an occasional reply to one of Christopher's tantrums LOL).  For this, I have been exceedingly grateful; contrary to popular belief, I have no love of perpetuating controversy for its own sake.  

As you might imagine, this respite has unfortunately come to an end.

Recently, Ron Carnell, the owner of this site and host to the thousands of daily visitors thereof, introduced a "novel" idea (no pun intended): why not pool the considerable talents of the many poets who visit this website to create a book of poetry?  Better yet, why not allow the members of the site to choose the content of the book by voting for their favorite poems?  Enter:  the Voices on the Web project.  Great idea, right...?

You will note that the above indicated voting for favorite "poems," not favorite "poets" -- were Ron interested in publishing an anthology of selected works of particular poets, I have no doubt that he would have indicated this in his description of the project.  Unfortunately, it seems that the outcome of this project will be decided not so much by a show of talent as by a show of popularity.

If you have visited the forum dedicated to this project at all, you might have noticed that a few poets and/or poems have been garnering a great majority of the votes.  You may also have noticed that in some cases (NOT all cases, flag-wavers take note), the number of replies (and one must assume votes) is, in all fairness, all out of proportion to the quality and poetic value of the poem in question.  I believe it is no coincidence that in every case the author of the poem is one of our more "popular" poets -- that is, a poet who has many friends on the forums.

How does this happen?  Well, admittedly, it can't ALL be popularity -- I have seen many excellent works by many of our "popular" poets fade into obscurity (read: off page one) within the first day -- so what's the difference?  The answer, I think, can be summed up in three letters: "ICQ"

When I first got my ICQ set up, my list had about 20 people on it; while I thought this was too many (and have subsequently edited it accordingly), I have come to find out that 20 is a laughable minimum compared to the mammoth lists that many of our members boast.  Is this, in itself, a bad thing?  Not at all -- it's great if you can have that many friends and keep up with them all -- and in some cases, such as moderators, I can see the necessity of maintaining open lines of communication thusly.  However, I think that ICQ is partly responsible for the sabotage of the Voices project, or at least the medium by which that sabotage is being carried out.

Let me give you an example:  you sign on to your 100-member-list ICQ, and have about 20 URLs waiting for you from friends and fellow members of Passions (don't laugh -- this HAS happened).  Suppose you read each and every one of these posts; some you like, some you -- well -- don't like.  The "likes" are easy -- you reply, you vote -- case closed.  But the "don't likes..?"  Well, as I see it, you have three choices:

1)  Grit your teeth, type a polite message to your friend explaining that this isn't the type of poetry YOU would expect to read in a reputable publication, and hope they don't know where you live to wreak their revenge.

2)  Don't reply at all, in which case your friend will either a) keep sending you the URL until you DO reply, or b) become offended, in which case you may refer back to the outcome of choice 1)

3)  Reply with pleasantly noncommital praise, vote for the poem, and burn in Poetry Hell with an eternal crisis of conscience.

But seriously, folks ... and I DO mean seriously, because I assure you that Ron DOES take this project seriously...  voters: I would advise -- no, I would BEG -- you to exercise a little more discretion in voting .. you may have noticed that Ron has made it impossible for the author to check who voted for the poem and who didn't ... USE this to your advantage!  You need not vote simply because you replied.  Poets: I urge you to use a little discretion in both posting and URLing your poetry -- if it is truly a masterpiece (as it should be, if you are submitting it for publication), it will speak for itself -- you need not "market" it.  Not to mention, a real "friend" would not put a "friend" on the spot like that.

Just my take.  BTW, if anyone is even considering taking this as a protest on my part because of some lack of replies to MY work, rest assured that I would be more than happy to withdraw ALL of my submitted works from consideration if it will convince just one person to take this a bit more seriously.  Nuff said.

--Me




YOUR LIFE IS A TEST

It is only a test ...

If this were your Actual Life, you would have been given better instructions!

Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


1 posted 07-15-2000 02:12 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

You mean we can vote for these things? Wierd...  

Seriousness aside.. good point (as much as it galls me to admit that I side with you, tantrums notwithstanding! ) I do as you suggested (oh-oh, gonna be in trouble now) I like a lot of poetry here... I think there are many talented, exceptional writers. I also think there are many who have incredible potential. But... yeah, there's some who don't necessarily appeal to my taste. (How's that for tactful!) So if someoe sends me a URL (I won't tell you how many I have on ICQ) I reply as I see it. If I think it's great work, then I may vote. *shrug* Sorry everyone else.

One of my concerns, not unrelated, which may already have been addressed, was that there are going to be a lot of people who vote, simply because it will up their count. I do think it fair that you reply.. this is an interactive environment after all. Why "bother" if you're not going to... well, interact. But there's a level of unfairness to that as well, seeing as how those who don't have to work, are home all the time, whatever... there are a million different scenarios.

I know, I'm starting to ramble. I agree with you Kess. And will ask the same as you, for people to be sure to be very thoughtful when voting. Ron did his best when he figured out how the voting should be tallied (still makes my head spin thinking abou tit!) I think that since he put his all into it, we should do no less!
Justbleu
Member Elite
since 08-31-99
Posts 3430
Oregon, Originally From Alaska


2 posted 07-15-2000 08:27 AM       View Profile for Justbleu   Email Justbleu   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Justbleu's Home Page   View IP for Justbleu

Wow!!!  I agree with you both!!  Skyfire you enlightened me!! Thank You!!  That's a shame ICQ is being used like that!!  

Bridgette


"Somewhere, somehow, it should be possible to touch someone and never let go again. To hold someone, not for a moment but forever." Unknown
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


3 posted 07-15-2000 09:26 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Kess, you have valid argument.  I am not on any type of ICQ [anyone can check that out] and I would have hoped that the Voices forum stood on its own...I was not aware, and am saddened to learn, of poets who would send messages to friends in this family to "ask" them to please "read and vote for me".  Tsk.

As far as "popularity", I myself wondered, "would someone think I was voting for this because I am familiar with that person's work?"  Well, I am familiar with many peoples work here [after a year's familiarity, you get to know a few] but in Voices, I have hoped to set rules for myself...to "judge" as it were the content and context of the poem, would I like to own a book where I could go back, again and again, and lovingly stroke the page that contained those very words that make me think, or cause my heart to beat just a little harder.

That is how I vote.  I hope others will heed your comments, and vote for the good of the book, not the ego of the poet.

Sunny

~~~Keep your face to the sunshine and you cannot see the shadow.
Helen Keller ~~~

When you want to be loved, look within...KRJ

RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


4 posted 07-15-2000 10:14 AM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

I do have ICQ but it's not on much these days and I certainly haven't received any messages asking me to either read or vote on anyone's work within VoTW but I'm a typical brit I'm afraid and tend to comment or vote purely because I enjoyed it rather than because someone asked me to, so it wouldn't do anyone any good anyway...LOL

I do think that's a shame though if that is happening...  

HUGS



[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 07-15-2000).]
Poet deVine
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since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


5 posted 07-15-2000 10:56 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Since honesty is the 'soup du jour' I'll tell you that I am sent URLs via ICQ. Not one person as asked me to vote for their poem. Asking me to read it is all they have done and so, I do. And I reply. Since this is a 'secret ballot', I vote for the poetry I think is worthy of Passion's good name. I've read and voted for some 'newbie' poetry because I'm impressed with the poem....I guess I thought that's what we were all doing. I am saddened to know that some are 'campaigning'.


Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


6 posted 07-15-2000 11:25 AM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

Sharon, you have brought up a point that needs clarifying -- thank you.  

I never stated, nor meant to imply, that I thought that anyone was "campaigning" in the strictest sense; as in, sending it to friends and saying "vote for this or die" LOL.  I only meant to point out that if you do send poetry via URL to a friend, more often than not that "friend" will assume that you are asking for their vote (if not in so many words) and will likely give it to you, whether they really want to or not.

The main objective of this post was not to berate anyone, but to point out the fact to those who may not have noticed that Ron has designed a SECRET ballot -- so voting need not necessarily follow replying.  Heck, if you wanted to be REALLY sneaky, you could say you voted (stroke your friend's ego) and not really vote ... shrug ...  

My only wish here is to ensure that the Voices project gets what it deserves:  the very best of everyone's poetry, not every one of the poems written by the "best" poets.  

Thanks,

--Me
Poet deVine
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Hurricane Alley


7 posted 07-15-2000 11:52 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Whew! I'm glad no one is boldly soliciting votes!    

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


8 posted 07-15-2000 01:02 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Much thought went into this project before it saw the light of these boards. While it may not be "iron clad" in it's "Checks & Balances" systems, I do know that you can all depend upon the wisdom of one certain Passionate host to make sure that everything is done fairly for all.

"You can take that to the bank."..;*
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


9 posted 07-15-2000 01:31 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

It is clear that many poets here get read more often than others. That's the nature of the beast. This is not just a poetry posting board, this is a community. People build friendships and also become "fans" of someone's style of writing.

The Voices project, I am sure, is in excellent hands and I truly believe that the results will be remarkable and all will be happy with them.

I don't know why I feel compelled to say all this but here goes....I am a writer. It's not just what I do. It's what I am. I write because I enjoy the process, because it helps me evaluate life, and because it is an art I truly love. I also like to know that I am read and that my writing is appreciated.

BUT, I am NOT one of the poets here who gets 20 responses or more on a regular basis, especially to my serious work. I am not read as often as others.... but that's ok, you know why? I would rather get 5 quality responses from an audience of readers who clearly "got" what I was trying to say. That's because I write for the art.

But this thread is not about ME, is it? It's about the book. I gave that background in order to say this....

I do NOT think this is a popularity contest. I think people are being very responsible and voting only for those poems which they think have the quality to appear in this book. We all want to be proud of the book. I submitted several more poems than most, in hopes that at least one of them would get printed... but if none of them do, that's just fine... I am happy to be part of participating in the process.

I respect Ron very much and I'm sure he will do everything necessary to assure a quality product. And that, to me, means that the book will not be unbalanced with too many poems by any particular poet.

I think that's all I have to say but if I think of anything else.... I'll be back... LOL.... you know me... once I start rambling, it's hard to stop.

doreen

Whatever you do, don't bring Yoko to band practice.
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


10 posted 07-15-2000 01:38 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

I have to agree, in the point that, it has brought people to do things they normally don't do. Hey, I've gotten poetry icq'd me from people I don't even talk to.  

But all in all I hope everyone is fair and would do what most of us seem to be doing. I would hope they vote for the content of the work and not for the poet.

I would hope that if my poetry can't stand on the merit of content, I would rather it not stand at all. (no snickering now  )  It has crossed my mind also about people voting just for the sake of getting more votes themselves. I hope everyone will be honest in this.

I seriously think things will turn out alright. There will be some fantastic poetry contained with this book. Actually the best of what we have to offer!
X Angel
Senior Member
since 11-07-1999
Posts 1592
Oregon


11 posted 07-15-2000 04:23 PM       View Profile for X Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for X Angel

Well I have screwed up I seem to think...I have been campaigning for others to read other poets work. I am one of the people who sees someone new on the forums (with a book submission) with a really great poem, I will send the URL to a few of my icq contacts...shame a great poem is missed cuz someone posted under an unfamiliar nickname. I would never ASK anyone to vote for anything, and would NEVER expect to even know or be told if they had voted. It's none of anyone's business. I vote because I think the poem is good, has potential, whatever. It doesn't hurt to vote for someone you don't even know (or if it's so awful ya don't vote for it...at least reply....REPLY so people know someone actually has read their work LOL), they too are in it as much as anyone. I'd really hate to see this book turn into a pile of upset people, instead of a compilation of the best poetry. Funny thing to me tho...it seems the poems I have seen with lots of replies are really good ones, but maybe I am not the one to judge because I have no poetical knowledge of structure, form, meter....I just read it and if it falls smoothly on my ears I am loving it!
  
Dunno....just adding my 1 1/2 cents to the pot
*hugs2all*
~Heather

[This message has been edited by X Angel (edited 07-15-2000).]
X Angel
Senior Member
since 11-07-1999
Posts 1592
Oregon


12 posted 07-15-2000 04:28 PM       View Profile for X Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for X Angel

GROUP HUG!!!!!!!!

*<8oř~~*
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


13 posted 07-15-2000 04:33 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I appreciate someone sending me the URL to a poem they've read and really liked. It's hard to read everything here and I am always glad to read someone's work. If YOU recommend it, then I'll read it. I may or may not vote for it - my choice - but I'm glad you sent it. (and isn't it great to find a gem! LOL)  
Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


14 posted 07-15-2000 06:04 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I would think that only people who are not involved in showing favoritism in any way should be the proper ones to discuss it  
X Angel
Senior Member
since 11-07-1999
Posts 1592
Oregon


15 posted 07-15-2000 06:35 PM       View Profile for X Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for X Angel

lol well said 'Deer
Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 11-06-1999
Posts 43042
Florida's Foreverly Shores


16 posted 07-16-2000 12:04 AM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

Skyfyre~

I can only speak for myself -

I certainly only vote for poetry that is 'in my opinion' of the quality that would cause me to purchase a book.

quote:
'the number of replies (and one must assume votes) is, in all fairness, all out of proportion to the quality and poetic value of the poem in question.  I believe it is no coincidence that in every case the author of the poem is one of our more "popular" poets -- that is, a poet who has many friends on the forums.


*First, I would have to say that anyone who 'assumes' that I have voted for a submitted poem - is doing just that 'assuming'.

I have many friends on this forum and receive comments on my poetry because my constituents have come to know that I often write what they like to read.

*Secondly, if I believe it is a poem of merit that moves me in some way -
I'll vote for it - if not, I won't.

I will continue to comment on any poem
and as many poems that I wish to comment on.
(and goodness knows that's a lot !)  
All who have come to know me in these forums know that I am, by my nature, a positive person who displays encouragement and affection for many.

I spend a lot of time off of the forums, working with people to help them with their poetry.

Why ?  Not because I'm a qualified poet-tech,
but because I care and they know I care.
I have e-mailed approximately 30 poets and suggested that they submit a piece that I particularly enjoyed from their archived works.

I have sent (through my e-mail) the URL to a piece of work
that I found particularly touching or moving to others to read.
(book submissions or not)

I've never asked anyone to vote and no one has asked me to vote for a poem.

*Thirdly, this book will contain what Ron Carnell envisioned - quality poetry from a variety of poets.

This project is in the very capable hands of a man with a vision.

I'm confident that most of our membership is considering the book project as seriously as I am.

*Lastly, I'm going to turn on my ICQ and see what pops up.  Those who know me know that I don't turn it on as I don't particularly like to be disturbed while I'm writing or composing.

Thanks, Skyfyre, for addressing what you felt was an issue to be discussed.

Respectfully~
~*Marge*~



~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
noles1@totcon.com


RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


17 posted 07-16-2000 12:30 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

It's not a case of changing my mind but I'm really glad I just remembered to pick up my mail because there was a mail there sharing a find in one of the forums and I have to say that I'm really pleased it was sent to me because it's a forum I rarely visit but the poem is exquisite and yep, I voted but from free will..but I also add it wasn't from the author, well don't think it was...LOL...who can tell these days..   But I am pleased because I miss so much these days and that was one that I would have been sorry to miss...so I guess this leaves me wondering about the whole subject because if we all shared when we found a treasure I bet it would bring more smiles to perhaps some disheartened poets...

Although I have to admit it's not something I really think to do myself...I guess for me the difference is whether it's the author asking me directly or whether it's someone so pleased because they found a treasure...

Ooops, think I rambled again...*g*

HUGS all
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


18 posted 07-16-2000 12:44 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

I agree with that RG. I did send one out that I read in Spiritual, because it totally awed me and blew me away! I had to share it with the others I thought would enjoy it as well.

Rest assured, I'm sure once again, that things will work out wonderfully with this.
No one knows we're voting or not voting, unless of course they state so in the reply.

So let's just keep reading, and voting, or not voting according to how each individual feels.    We're going to have one awesome book of poetry when it's finished.  
Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
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since 11-06-1999
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Florida's Foreverly Shores


19 posted 07-16-2000 01:51 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

Yesterday I found a 'treasure' in a forum that I had decided to make my 'read' for the day ...

I felt that there were a few friends that would also enjoy the quality of the work and that were not frequenters of that particular forum ...

I shared the URL with 20 friends -
one e-mail came back as 'undeliverable'
so 19 friends had the opportunity to read something that I felt they would find touching.

I didn't ask them to vote -
don't care if they did or didn't -
just wanted to share.

quote:
Friends ..
I found this in The Corner Pub
and wanted to share it.


Interestingly enough, I did turn on my ICQ last evening and had a peek at the ONE submitted poem that was ICQ'd to me by a friend of the author ! !
I wasn't asked to vote -
In fact I had already read and responded to that post.
Not revealing if I did or did not vote !
But it was a keepsake for sure.

If I find another treasure -
I'll be sure to direct my friends to it.
If you find one you think I'd enjoy -
please feel free to let me know.

Wow !  The forums are busy and there are lots of GOOD poems out there to be read and enjoyed.

What FUN - FUN - FUN !

*LOL@ RainbowGirl~
I'm not the 'author' - HONEST !
I'm the blonde !
Love ya' all !
~*Marge*~



~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
noles1@totcon.com


Mike
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since 06-19-99
Posts 2528


20 posted 07-16-2000 02:00 PM       View Profile for Mike   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mike

Of course there is favoritism.  The selection is by popular vote.  Even with the extremely limited contact I have with the social aspects of the forum, I have been solicited for votes.  That is human nature and an expected result. Not a problem.  I know that Skyfire, Doreen, and a great many other poets are not going to respond and vote for my poetry. I do not say that to criticize, only as a fact. I do not hold myself out as a poet, and have no illusions as to my literary expertise. I had planned on submitting only one poem, so I picked out what I thought would be a poem the public at large would enjoy and was well written.  I received six responses.  I then posted the poem I thing is probably one of, if not the best I have written. I garnered 13 reponses.  It is clear to me that if one of my poems makes it as a selection, it will be the poem I feel is my weakest entry.  I say this for this reason, the poets do need to look at themselves and what they want out of the book.  Personally, I think one poet, whom I know will never come close to garnering enough votes to get a poem selected , epitomizes Passions, and should have a poem included.  While I doubt I have enough votes for any of my poems to be entered, I do think there are poets who deserve to be in the book more than I, and hopefully my withdrawal will allow one of the fifty poets who does not have enough votes publication. In close I say to all poets, including the establishment, look at all poets and make an effort to include the best poem of each poet.
I do apologize for voting for so many poems Skyfire, I did not do so to garner support for my poems, but was trying to show support for others, as I think sometimes sacrifices in quality are necessary to obtain a better end result.  I wish the book well.
RainbowGirl
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since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


21 posted 07-16-2000 03:18 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Just a quickie before I share dinner with Snoops..*g*

ROFL Marge, I knew it couldn't be you as the author, was just pulling your leg..   Feel free to send me anything that you think I'll enjoy and that applies to anyone..   I say that because I find it takes me ages reading them and even longer with pen in my mouth thinking of a suitable reply and sometimes I can't so end up reading and leaving without anyone even knowing I'd read it...sometimes they make me cry and I wish I could hug them but I can't and words often seem so futile...ooops

HUSG

Mike: Geesh, solicited???  Heck I don't even like replying to my own anymore in case someone thinks I'm trying to get more replies or even a vote...to be honest I find the whole thing kind of scary...but glad you handle it so well..

HUGS

Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


22 posted 07-16-2000 04:03 PM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

Sigh ...

Again, I say that this post was NOT intended to berate anyone for "sharing" what they thought was a good poem, whether it be their own or someone else's, nor was it in ANY way designed to discourage people from voting for poetry they actually enjoyed reading -- that was the whole point of the ballot in the first place, was it not?

Additionally, nowhere in my rambles did I EVER question Ron's ability to do ANYTHING --and that includes his ability to turn out a worthwhile and representative anthology in the Voices project.  I thought only to make his job a bit easier by encouraging more frugality or at least discretion in voting.  I knew, when I typed this rant, that it would likely not be well-received; I was willing to take that risk.

Chris, Bridgette, RG, Sunshine, Sharon, doreen, Michael M, Nan, WhtDove, Heather, Marge, and Mike:  I would like to thank you for participating in this discourse, thereby assuring me that SOMEONE is paying attention to what is going on around here, even if they don't agree with me (which isn't required, yanno)  

I would also like to thank those who contacted me via ICQ and email regarding this subject; I understand your desire to remain anonymous and removed from the general melee, but I appreciated the opportunity to hear your opinions as well.  

Thanks all,

--Kess


Poet deVine
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Hurricane Alley


23 posted 07-16-2000 04:13 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

As we wind down to the close of voting for poetry, may I suggest that we take some time to read poets that haven't garnered the most replies. We certainly have a lot of good poetry here! Have you read the book submissions in Teen, in Dark, in Spiritual? Because they are there...so let's read, read, read.

Kess, I'm glad you brought this subject up for discussion. Better to talk about it than brood about it.  

Now! On to Voices #2!!!!
Portia
Member
since 05-18-2000
Posts 157


24 posted 07-16-2000 06:08 PM       View Profile for Portia   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Portia

I am going to stick my neck out here.

I am relatively new. I was introduced to this forum by a friend (Joel the Wolf), and I introduced another friend to it (gothicmoth). I post reasonably regularly to Dark Passions and occasionally (but not often) venture from there at the behest of gothicmoth, who reads here more widely than I have felt comfortable doing. So perhaps I am impertinent posting in a thread so full of Senior Members and Moderators and Members Emeritus. But here I go anyway. Those who know me know I can't, as a rule, keep my mouth shut.

I didn't know that a book was being compiled until I saw the small book icons beside poems. Then, it was beside more, and more, and more... beside poems that were reposts, cross-posts, poets' old material... People were dragging poems out of mothballs merely to get them submitted for the book. New  names were appearing with no-- or few-- posts prior to strings of book submissions. And this is all just in Dark.

Granted, this has turned up a lot of great poetry. I have enjoyed popping into Voices and reading. Some of the book submissions are excellent. Some are, as Christopher said, just not to my taste. I believe I have voted for one poem-- one-- and that was because I thought the message was timeless and perfect and universal and *should* go into a book.

I do admire Ron for sifting through all this writing. I would not take that task or any part of it if you *paid* me simply because I am not good enough to say what's good. The book is an excellent idea; however (extending neck further), I would venture to say many very good poets are seeing the influx of new members, new posters, new poems, new book submissions, and are feeling intimidated, nervous, perhaps even repulsed by it. It seems that the "book bandwagon" has made a lot of work for Ron, and has generated a sense of "posterity greed" in a lot of otherwise good poets, which is a shame because this is a gift Ron has offered; not something a Frost-come-lately should just expect to have the right to. I wish at this late date there were a way to pare down the material, pare down the number of posts/posters, or make it less a popularity or my-name-in-print-first contest. But this is just my opinion, little though it helps. It disturbs me that it has come to this and really, I can't wait for it to be over, and I know I am not alone in that feeling. I wonder how many people we will lose *just* because the book project is over. *That* will be the most bothersome thing. But perhaps a bit of a relief as well? Not because of the quality of any poems, but... well. We will know who the forum's real friends are, won't we.

Thank you for reading. I will be here all week for rotten tomato/cabbage dodging or coin/rose tossing.

[This message has been edited by Portia (edited 07-16-2000).]
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