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Ender
Member
since 12-08-1999
Posts 246
Yuma, AZ USA


0 posted 01-30-2000 03:49 PM       View Profile for Ender   Email Ender   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ender's Home Page   View IP for Ender

i guess i was wrong.  

[This message has been edited by Ender (edited 01-30-2000).]
poetry_kills
Senior Member
since 12-04-1999
Posts 552
new orleans


1 posted 01-30-2000 04:22 PM       View Profile for poetry_kills   Email poetry_kills   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit poetry_kills's Home Page   View IP for poetry_kills

ender: first... yes, marilyn is an adult... frankly i am disturbed by the fact that you would object to this... i challenge you to produce a post by her (or refer me to one) that shows her unappreciation of scorn towards "teen poetry".... secondly, i am bothered by the idea that you would seperate "teen poetry" from other forms of poetry... good writing is the same, despite the age of the writer... we are all here to learn to be better poets, not to pat ourselves on the backs about how we're going to be the next shakespeare... none of us are perfect and none of us write perfectly... we could ALL stand some major improvement in our poetry... finally, this forum DOES have teen moderators, but i personally am thankful that we have someone older, wiser, and more experienced to help us grow and learn (both in life and as poets)... i hope that marilyn reads this and knows that i, for one, truly appreciate her efforts and her presence here...

sincerely,
jerome the boy with the blue thumb

 A savage place! as holy and enchanted
As e'er beneath a waning moon was haunted
By woman wailing for her demon-lover!
~Coleridge
LoveBug
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Ascendant
since 01-08-2000
Posts 5015


2 posted 01-30-2000 05:02 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

I have to agree with Poetry_Kills completely. It should make no diffrence if Marilyn is an adult. Age is just a number. She has never said anything aganst the poetry here unless it is inappropriate. She gives suggestions to help us grow as writers, as does most of the people here in the forum. Like Poetry said, this is a place to help us become better writers, not to see how much praise we can get.  

Also, I think that being aganst Marilyn moderating because she is an adult is just as bad as if someone didn't want you to do a job you are qualified to do just because you are a teen. Think about that. In a way, you are no diffrent from some of these people most of us have encountered that either hate or are afraid of teens, and will do anything to keep us from our rights. But, that's just my opinion.

 "To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world"
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


3 posted 01-30-2000 05:31 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Please don't cringe, but I was a teen in the sixties. You might have heard of that decade? We were the ones with long hair, bell bottoms, Woodstock, beatniks, flower power, and music deemed an instrument of Satan. Some of us fought in Vietnam, many of us fought against Vietnam, some of us burned bras, all of us burned bridges. If there was a rule - we broke it.

Was that a result of the era? Or was that simply because we were teens, rebelling against a world that made little sense to us. I don't know. I make the point simply to make it clear that I understand "breaking rules." To be frank, I've spent most of my life breaking rules.

I came into Teen today because I received an email from Ender offering to help moderate the Teen forum. Coincidentally enough, it arrived not an hour after another email from Marilyn - asking if I could find someone to help her and Alwye in here. So, needless to say, I was very pleased with Ender's offer. But before I turn over the keys to my home to someone, I kinda like to know a little bit about them. What better way, I said to myself, to learn about someone than by reading their poetry. So, in I came.

A moderator's job, first and foremost, is to encourage people to write and to contribute. I'd like to think Passions is about sharing. And about growth. I think both Marilyn and Alwye, and indeed all the Moderators here, do a great job of encouragement. But a Moderator also has a secondary job, the job of enforcing the rules. We don't have a lot of them, I think. Most deal with content and keeping Passions a family-oriented site, though a few are a bit more arbitrary and are concerned more with just plain keeping the place organized. I really do understand breaking rules. I know something about chaos. And I know it doesn't work for long. Rules - and especially our primary rule of Respect & Tolerance - are the lubricant that makes a society able to function. Without that lubricant, friction would destroy us.

Unfortunately, Ender's credibility as a potential Moderator was hurt a bit when I discovered this thread. One of those "organizational" rules we have is that Poetry forums are for poetry and Discussion forums are for discussions. We also have a rule about using our Photo feature for things other than photos, both to preserve bandwidth and insure our threads load quickly on your computer. Gee, just one thread and Ender already broke two rules.

I really would like to find another Teen moderator in here. Not because I think Marilyn, as an "adult," can't or isn't doing the job, but rather because I'd very much like to get the Teens more involved in the web site. Those that have been to the main site might know we have three categories there entirely devoted to teen poetry. And I get a lot of great participation there. Marilyn is a moderator here because she cares about two things very deeply - Teens and what we're trying to accomplish at Passions. Heck, Marilyn cares about people - and I guess that pretty much covers the other two points.

I'm going to close this thread and move it to the Alley - where it should have been posted to start with - but I encourage everyone to come over and continue the discussion. What do you think I should be looking for in a Teen moderator?
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


4 posted 01-30-2000 06:09 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Ender, I would like to know what you posted originally. Seems odd that you would edit it out......

As for a moderator....someone who respects the guidelines...reads and responds to the other members..and has the attitude that Passions is a home...

[This message has been edited by Poet deVine (edited 01-30-2000).]
Marilyn
Member Elite
since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada


5 posted 01-30-2000 06:11 PM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

Well I am unsure of what this is all about. I found this thread after it was deleted by the author. I would like to make myself available for discussion if there is a problem with me. Yes I am an adult, I am 32 years of age to be exact. I enjoy talking with the teens in the forum and didn't realize I had hit a nerve of anyone. I would like to discuss this and see if we can smooth out what ever the problem seems to be.

Thanks,

Marilyn.
poetry_kills
Senior Member
since 12-04-1999
Posts 552
new orleans


6 posted 01-30-2000 06:24 PM       View Profile for poetry_kills   Email poetry_kills   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit poetry_kills's Home Page   View IP for poetry_kills

marilyn: there really is nothing wrong... ender was just a little put out when he discovered that you were an adult... i suppose he assumed all the people in the teen forum were teens (including the moderators)... it seems that things have been amended now and i'm certain that i speak for the majority of the forum when i say that we've loved having you as our moderator and are eager to learn all we can from a more experienced poet...  

sincerely,
jerome the boy with the blue thumb

 A savage place! as holy and enchanted
As e'er beneath a waning moon was haunted
By woman wailing for her demon-lover!
~Coleridge
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


7 posted 01-30-2000 06:42 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Marilyn, I wish I were 32 again!

Your aging fellow moderator
Denise  
LoveBug
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Ascendant
since 01-08-2000
Posts 5015


8 posted 01-30-2000 08:18 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

I, too, find it curious that Ender decided to delete his/her message... but I've already posted my opinion about that, so I'm going to reply to Ron's message.

I think that a Teen Moderator should be able to be trusted, first and foremost. Also, a moderator should have the respect of the people posting in the forum. So, I was thinking, perhaps the people at the Teen Forum could vote (secretly, if they wish) for their next moderator. I'm not sure about any policys or anything, voting may not be allowed for all I know, but it's just a suggestion. Tell me what you think!

 "To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world"
Marilyn
Member Elite
since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada


9 posted 01-30-2000 08:38 PM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

Poetry kills and LoveBug: I appreciate your support of me in this. I have wondered myself about the feelings of the teens toward me. I am glad that you like my presence in the forum.

This issue with Ender started with my editing one of his/her peoms. I contacted him/her and asked if he/she would edit the poem themselves and gave him/her a time limit. when the poem was not edited I did it myself and again contacted him/her about what I had done. I believe this is what set this whole thing into being. I did not do this in order to hurt his/her feelings but because of the guidelines set up for all members to follow. I think the poem and the content (except for the offending words) was well done and well thought out. I also mentioned this to the author.

Yes the forum is for teens to post their poetry and to create freindships. I have posted only 2 pieces in the teen forum because I thought you all might like to see my work. The responses were few therefore I have not posted more. I am just a responder and a friend to the poets there. I make sure the guidelines are followed and do not interfer with your interactions unless I feel it is needed. If any of you feel I need to do more or do less I would like to hear from you. I would also like you all to feel free to contact me about any and all concerns you have about the teen forum.

Thanks again,

Marilyn.

Denise....don't worry about the grey hair hun...lol. Mine will be coming soon enough.

Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


10 posted 01-30-2000 09:04 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

hehehe....no grey hair yet!! Don't know why, though!!  

Denise
Voyce
Junior Member
since 01-30-2000
Posts 15
Colorado


11 posted 01-30-2000 09:13 PM       View Profile for Voyce   Email Voyce   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Voyce's Home Page   View IP for Voyce

i had read the origninal message posted by ender, and i understand where he is coming from.  I am not saying i completley agree with it, but i do understand it.  I trhink he was trying to say that the fact that an adult is moderating a teen forum is odd.  I mean, i thought a teen was moderating the teen forum because of the fact that it is a teen forum.  It really doesnt sound right when someone says there is an adult working at a place designed for teens.  i know you guys have been a teen and all.  

so, i guess Ender was just saying that an adult looks at things differently than a teen does, especially poetry.  the maturity levels are different and so are the attitudes.  

but, i sign off now saying i am happy this forum is here.  I mean, where else would i post my work.  but this is a new screen name, so dont look for any of my old stuff.  and my old name is trashed forever.
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


12 posted 01-30-2000 09:20 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Maturity is not related to chronological age! Nor is a view of life different for any of us...I've known some immature 40 year olds..and some very mature 15 year olds...
Mistikman
Senior Member
since 01-10-2000
Posts 729
San Jose, CA, USA


13 posted 01-30-2000 09:28 PM       View Profile for Mistikman   Email Mistikman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mistikman

In response to marylin, I say post more stuff in teen forum, I will be sure and reply to it and keep it alive until it hits a nice 10 responses or so   As the moderator, I would love to read some of your stuff  

 I am not a poet, I am merely one who speaks in emotion
Alwye
Moderator
Member Elite
since 06-16-99
Posts 3968
In the space between moments


14 posted 01-30-2000 09:32 PM       View Profile for Alwye   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alwye

I personally, am very glad that you are my co-moderator, Marilyn.  For any of you who may not know, I am indeed a teen moderating the teen forum.  I am 16, and I strongly feel that having both teen and adult moderators is a great mix.  I don't see any reason for anyone to feel put out because Marilyn is here.  Quite the contrary, I believe her presence helps out because she knows quite a bit on how to improve poetry and she is a great person to look up to.

As for maturity, I agree completely with Ms. deVine on the issue.  There are many mature teens and there are many immature adults.  This is no exception at passions. Both mature teens and adults moderating in teen I think is what's best for the forum.  

Ron, as for choosing another moderator for teen, I think someone mature, involved with the forum, and who seems to have a good head on their shoulders would do nicely.  I do have a suggestion, if you'd like, and that would be Master.  Only my opinion, but he seems to fit the criteria.  I hope you find someone that you feel is right for the forum. Whatever you do decide, rest assured that I am fully dedicated to my position as moderating teen.  I love being there.


 *Krista Knutson*

~*Like a lion, without fear of the howling pack,
Like a gust of wind, ne'er trapped in a snare,
Like a lotus blossom, ne'er sprinkled by water,
Let me, like a unicorn, in solitude roam.*~ Hymn Of Buddha

Mistikman
Senior Member
since 01-10-2000
Posts 729
San Jose, CA, USA


15 posted 01-30-2000 09:39 PM       View Profile for Mistikman   Email Mistikman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mistikman

Voyce, I hope you know yer not fooling anyone. Anyone who looks at one of your old posts as Ender can see you have the exact same link as your webpage, and on your webpage(linked to from Voyce) it says Ender in big letters at the top. Im sorry, but this is just an insult to my intelligence when you try to support yourself with a different name. So far you are the only one who resents marilyn moderating the teen forum. If you want to act this way, maybe you shouldnt be posting here.

[This message has been edited by Mistikman (edited 01-30-2000).]
poetry_kills
Senior Member
since 12-04-1999
Posts 552
new orleans


16 posted 01-30-2000 10:47 PM       View Profile for poetry_kills   Email poetry_kills   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit poetry_kills's Home Page   View IP for poetry_kills

marilyn: i'm with mistikman in saying that i wish you would post more of your works on the forum... i'd certainly keep an eye out for them... and i know that no one had a problem with Toerag posting a good deal of his poetry in the teen forum, even though he's old as dirt compared to some of us (no offense toe)... also i would like to say that i (for one) will stand by you if this frivolous comment ever comes to be a real problem for you... as for my ideas for a new moderator, i've emailed you about that already... i'm sure you all will make the best choice for all of us in the teen forum...  


sincerely,
jerome the boy with no brain


 A savage place! as holy and enchanted
As e'er beneath a waning moon was haunted
By woman wailing for her demon-lover!
~Coleridge
Isis
Member Ascendant
since 09-06-99
Posts 6390
Sunny Queensland


17 posted 01-31-2000 12:13 AM       View Profile for Isis   Email Isis   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Isis's Home Page   View IP for Isis

I can understand the confusion.  Poor Marilyn doesn't even know and can't read what was said.
Age has nothing to do with it.  We have teens in dark poetry too, and they all seem to really like me regardless of my age.
Like myself, I know Marilyn is one of the gang (as teens would say) and this is all a misunderstanding and will blow over.
I know now the problem language, well Marilyn is doing her job as I do with my teens in dark.  They usually understand or come around.  So Maz chin up it'll all work out for the best Hon.



 Let your heart guide you. It whispers, so listen closely.
~Isis~
(Sovereign of the Spirit)


Jer
Member
since 12-02-1999
Posts 455
USA


18 posted 01-31-2000 01:47 AM       View Profile for Jer   Email Jer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jer

Wow.... What a topic!  I do not know what Ender has against Marilyn but I hope all is resolved.  From day one that I have been in the Teen forum, Marilyn has been there.  Not many of you may know but my bestfriend died on Thursday in a car accident and Marilyn has been there for me.  She is understanding, caring, and a great person to say the least!  I love her alot as a friend and I can NOT see how anyone could have a problem with her.  Behind every teen there is WHO?  An adult I say.  Marilyn is the adult behind the teens helping and supervising. She makes sure the topics are appropriate and that no one is being unfair to others.  I think everyone in the forum is aware of her age due to a certain post she and I brought back to get the forum back into a family. It has worked.

As for Ron's search for a moderator...  I do not think we need one!  At first, I wanted to be one and I was told no, but now I know. I have a new understanding....  Everyone that is in the forum is a moderator in his or her own way!  We all help doing something and if we have a problem, we voice it and one of the two people with more power help.  If any forum needed another moderator, I feel it should be Open.  Anyway... those are my thoughts and that is all they are.  Ender....  You have the right to your opinion but do not start problems!
Tamma
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Senior Member
since 01-17-2000
Posts 933
In His Arms, Harpers Ferry, WV


19 posted 01-31-2000 01:45 PM       View Profile for Tamma   Email Tamma   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tamma

i think its a good i dea to have an adult moderate the forum, she keeps us in line  

 *how was i to kno that today id meet someone like you? how was i to see the light with him in my path and you too far to touch?*

Angel
Senior Member
since 07-02-99
Posts 597
Pennsylvania


20 posted 02-01-2000 12:30 AM       View Profile for Angel   Email Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Angel

I agree with the majority on this one. I think the idea of an adult moderator in the Teen Forum is a great idea and I honestly don't think anyone is more suited for the job than Marilyn   . You can tell that she obviously cares not only for the forum but for all of us as friends. There is so much we can learn from her not only about poetry, but life as well.
There was a time, not so long ago that I posted a message when I was contemplating suicide. Marilyn was one of the many who were there for me, and helped me more than she could possibly know  . Reading her post and just knowing someone was there for me, calmed me down and got me thinking clear again. Thanks again  . I am complete behind you on this   and consider you someone I can always go to talk if I ever need to.

I also find it odd that Ender would edit is originating post. Just my thought on the subject.


 ~Susie~



[This message has been edited by Angel (edited 02-01-2000).]
poetry_kills
Senior Member
since 12-04-1999
Posts 552
new orleans


21 posted 02-01-2000 12:40 AM       View Profile for poetry_kills   Email poetry_kills   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit poetry_kills's Home Page   View IP for poetry_kills

i am one of marilyn's biggest supporters in this issue, but i would also like to say that we should not treat ender differently just because he made this one mistake... i'm sure marilyn feels the same way... i, for one, am willing to give ender a fresh start and the same respect i gave him before... i hope that all of you will find it in your heart to do the same...

sincerely,
jerome the boy with no brain

 A savage place! as holy and enchanted
As e'er beneath a waning moon was haunted
By woman wailing for her demon-lover!
~Coleridge
Alwye
Moderator
Member Elite
since 06-16-99
Posts 3968
In the space between moments


22 posted 02-01-2000 10:55 PM       View Profile for Alwye   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alwye

You are very noble, poetry_kills.  And I shall follow your lead and do the same...everyone deserves a second chance.

 *Krista Knutson*

One lives in the hope of becoming a memory.
~*Antonio Porchia*~
 
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