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Why bother?

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Sally S.
Senior Member
since 06-07-99
Posts 887

0 posted 01-27-2000 12:25 PM       View Profile for Sally S.   Email Sally S.   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sally S.

Sure, I have been away (off and on) for a while.  Though I have been peeking in...reading mainly but, I do respond when I've the time.  I tell you this much...from some of the comments on replies or comments given about poetry content, I've kept my replies to a minimum!

I once adored this place.  I've been here for quite a while.  Things have changed so much.  Even "cliques" have formed...and I don't use that word lightly.  I thought we as poets, were all equal here.  Not the case at all.  I'm surely not the only one that feels this way.

What is it?  The sheer number of members?  (and please don't throw it in my face that I've only 700+ posts, while others are astronomical...that doesn't mean I can't READ!!!!)

Another thing...though it may sound selfish, why wasn't I given the opportunity to join in a Birthday wish for Ron?  The were no notifications...not one person emailed saying "pssssst, wanna know a secret?" Nothing.  Not given the opportunity to write a poem or say BOO!  

Can you spell "C L I Q U E" ??

Selfish, right?  Perhaps.  Hurt feelings more like it.  No, I'm not best buddies with Ron, or Nancy, or Sharon.  But, like I said before...I've been involved with Passion's for a long time.  (At least I think I have?)
I haven't contributed enough?  Ok, I can live with that.  Give me the line..."We can't possibly invite 2000+ people to join in the celebration."  Ok, understandable.  More than understandable...I agree 100%.  Doesn't mean it doesn't still bother me...a bit.

I don't have 3000 posts...but I'm HERE!!!  See me waving from the sidelines???  I tell many people of this site.  I don't consider myself an outsider.  Or at least, I didn't.  Until recently.

I do quite a bit of reading here.  If I could respond to everything I've read, I'd be in those 1000 #'s too.  I simply can't.  If I did, I'd miss out on the reading.  Time restraints, you know.  And I feel I learn a great deal more through reading than replying!!!!  

I'm still HERE!!!  And I'm not going anywhere, because I still love this place.  I just will have to accept the changes and remain on the sidelines.  Reading...reading...reading and replying when I can.  
Ok, 'nuff said.

[This message has been edited by Sally S. (edited 01-27-2000).]
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Rara Avis
since 06-07-99
Posts 7296
America the beautiful

1 posted 01-27-2000 01:17 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

I agree with Sally. I, too, have been away on and off, one time taking a three-week hiatus due to the sheer frustation (and hurt) over the cliques here. I have been here since the forums opened and know very few people personally. Heck, I can count the number of people I know personally on one hand.

I can't stand the cliques. I know some people have their friends that they reply to, and their favorites, and I can live with that. But it seems that they only read certain poems by certain poets. This is the reason why some poems have zero responses while others have 30-40+. Everyone wants to go and read a certain poet, for reasons other than the fact that that certain poet is good.

The cliques don't bother some members, but they do bother others. I don't like the fact that my work is not going to be read just because I am not the favorite of another member. I try to read a variety, including those who have few or no responses and going back all the way to the very last topic and bringing it back up. I know how it is to have your poetry with hardly any replies and to have it sitting at the bottom.

I simply don't have the time to have thousands of posts after my name. I have been here for over seven months and am barely numbering in the thousands. Like Sally, that doesn't mean I can't read or am ignoring people. I just can't do it.



 "He have his goodness now. God forbid I take it from him!"
  -The Crucible

[This message has been edited by Elizabeth (edited 01-27-2000).]
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

2 posted 01-27-2000 01:34 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Hi Sally and Elizabeth!   How are you guys? I'm always glad to see you! You guys were among the first to make me feel welcomed here and I'm sorry that you are feeling sad. I'm glad you're both staying and I'm glad you came back Elizabeth! (I guess me bugging you all the time paid off...hehehe) Well, I just want to say that a high # of posts under your name doesn't mean anything...mine are only high because I have an over abundance of time on my hands....I guess most people have time restraints and can only reply to their friends or favorite poets...I know it may seem cliqueish but it is probably just as you had said before...time for most people is very limited...I, for one, will read anything that either one of you posts! I will be cutting back on reading and responding since I am beginning to feel burned out. But I'll be on the look out for you two!!  

Love ya, guys!!
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA

3 posted 01-27-2000 04:16 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Well... Here I am... Take yer shots, I'll do my best do duck - and still love ya!!

As the very first member of Passions (after Ron of course), I can assure you that both you, Sally - and you, Elizabeth have been members since the first week this place was open to the cyber-world for memberships... I personally love seeing either of you post.  It brings me back to a time when things were simple around here...

I can't worry about what I can't change - and "groups" of friends are going to be inherent in any conglomerate of people.  Our members bring their own friends along with them... Ergo, we have a predisposition to housing pockets of poets..... If it's any consolation, though - I read just about everything on my forums... I can't say I have enough time to venture into all of the others all of the time.... I wish I could - but then I wouldn't have time for a life...

Sally - about the birthday - I have to take total responsibility for it... I threw the party, and I knew there would be some who would feel they would have liked to be included... All I can say is that I'm only one person - and I was out straight on that project for a good couple of weeks... The only thing I could figure to do that was fair was to make the included poems from the moderators (this btw is not a clique - there are only a couple I speak to regularly)... The others just sort of fell into my lap.... I did apologize already for my own personal restraints in time, asking for your participation anyway... I truly wish I could have asked everyone ahead of time... So, please, feel free to join in now.... Thanks, Sal...  

[This message has been edited by Nan (edited 01-27-2000).]
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273

4 posted 01-27-2000 05:23 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

A member of a 2000+ replies is creeping in...I know how you feel, I do. It has only been in the last few months that I have been able to reply so prolifically - I am at university and here in New Zealand we have a huge break from November to the end of February - due to health reasons I was unable to work over this period and with lots of time I regularly sat at the computer and wrote poems and came often to my second home. It really is time restraints. I would say that if people are going to judge others on the basis of replies then that is wrong and unfair. Before I made friends here I used to wwatch my poetry sink with hardly any replies and have not forgotten how it felt! It was truly an awful feeling!!

I will agree with Nan that cliques are probably unavoidable. I will not deny - and do not want to, that I have some very close friends at Passions - who have enriched my life and opened doors to new ways of thinking. I also try to respond to a wide range of poems - and I do not respond to my friend's poetry exclusively - I certainly do not respond to all of the poems they write...I'd never rest! I think that in itself has the potential to lead to hurt feelings. My priority when I first get to Open 5 is to welcome any new members and I try to ensure I reply to a fair range - of people I know and do not know.

Sally and Elizabeth - you are both very welcome to join the group hug - that includes new members and old and everyone equally.  


 'Writing sharpens life;
life enriches writing'
Sylvia Plath
Sally S.
Senior Member
since 06-07-99
Posts 887

5 posted 01-28-2000 11:42 AM       View Profile for Sally S.   Email Sally S.   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sally S.

...returns in a better mood.....

You know, I must apologize for raining on Nan's Birthday Parade.  That wasn't why I initially opened this thread and though I was feeling "left out", I knew the reasons for it.  Nan, you out did yourself on this and don't let my sourness take anything away from that.  You deserve much better than that.

As to the main reason for this thread, Elizabeth know's exactly how I am feeling.  I waded through the old forums.  I'm not positive, but I believe it was close to a year ago.  That's all, you say?  I tell you this, my poetry has grown tremendously over this past year.  In fact, I'm much more proud of my recent writing than I have ever been thus far!  Problem is, I'm not sharing as much now as I did that year ago.  Lack of replies...part of the reason.  The main reason was because of the groups who have formed and focus mainly on themselves.

You're right Nan, there's no stopping that and although they exist, the people for the most part, are pleasant.  It just isn't the same.  I miss this place...the way it was in the beginning.  (There's that "old soul" shining through once more.)

I have slowed MY replies down to a bare minimum.  The problem with that seems that I don't LOOK like I'm here.  Not much I can do about that except for replying...again. (I'll work on that...)

So, don't forget us "geezers"...we're as important as the fiesty "youngin's" here. (Life imitating Art?  vise versa???)
I still luv ya!!!!  (((HUGGLES)))

Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

6 posted 01-28-2000 03:43 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I really wish you would start posting more, Sally! I miss your poems and would be thrilled to see more from you...puhleaaaaze?

Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561

7 posted 01-28-2000 11:18 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Sally I hear your crys.  I venture into open very rarely these days.  I mostly stay in Spiritual now. Poems just drown out there now, and it sure isn't like it used to be.
I try to go in when I can and reply to what I can. I've been very disheartened lately.
If I miss your poetry, please send me an email and let me know that you posted!!  
I'm glad you aren't leaving! Us geezers need to stick together...hehe
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028

8 posted 01-29-2000 11:08 AM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

Hi, you wonderful, sensitive, terrific passionate poetpeople.....

I guess i got here Justin Thyme to say that I am guilty of "falling into Nan's lap", as she so aptly put it, for the birthday bash planning. I've known Nan for a loooooong time... met her at yet another poetry forum prior to passions even being established... and we are friends. Yep. Like the real kind of friends that talk about real issues and know what's going on in each other's lives and all that. In other words, I tell her what's going on in my life and she listens without giving advice... and I like that. Whereas, she tells me some things that are going on in her life, and I give her lousy advice she didn't ask for. Frienship.... y'know?

Anyway, point is, i saw her online and IM'd her and asked her what she was doing because she kept not responding to me because she was busy and eventually i asked and asked and asked Chinese water torture...until she finally admitted that she was throwing this birthday bash and then i kept pressing her to see it.... and then i finally talked her into letting me do a page... WHEW!

So, that's my story.... I crashed the party planning.

As far as "cliques"... well, friendships form and people go to read what their friends wrote because with a site that has grown this big, you can't read everything.

As far as "wishing it were like it used to be"... i often say that about everything... my little baby boy is now 17.... my marriage just fell apart.... I used to be a size 8. Dammit! Give me the past back!!! hehe...

but on the other hand... the future can also be fun, y'know? I like the idea of posting in one of the lesser active, smaller forums, which I think was the idea when Ron established a bunch of forums.... variety, after all is the spice...

gonna shut up now... gotta go write a poem about time restraints... byeeeeee.... smile! I love your poetry Sally, Elizabeth... wish there were more hours in the day... i was one of the first members here and have "only" 680+ posts... too many poets, too little thyme...

God Bless

Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA

9 posted 01-29-2000 01:31 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Justin Kace your Thyme runs short, visit -    
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom

10 posted 01-29-2000 10:13 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Hi Sally:...I try to answer what I can but invariably as I start to answer, I get caught up in a talk somewhere or something happens and I can be here for hours and find I only answered 5 but I read a lot..LOL

As for groups, well yes, I'm guilty of belonging to one, it's called PIP... and I will admit that like Doreen I often know what's going on in my friends lives and so try to encourage them, cause sad times needs all the love and hugs you can give and if it's something great that's happened then sure as eggs are eggs, I'm going to be the one handing out the glass of champagne for them as well...but I like to think I listen to what I read as well as just read it, if that makes sense and I never was shy so I'll jump right in on someone's conversation and give me 2 pence worth - like now... ))

One other small factor, here in the UK, we pay for our phone bills and depending, it can range from 1p per minute to 4.2p per minute, so everything I say, has a cost - to me....I want shares in PIP when it goes public..


 Memories give you the power to collect roses in the winter...
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

11 posted 01-30-2000 12:26 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Sally, I am REALLY sorry you feel that way. You were one of the first people I met here and I have enjoyed our association very much. Back then, there weren't a lot of us but we were close and always supported each other. I would be very surprised if you posted a poem and did not have the old "regulars" respond to it. I know I've never missed one. There are just so many new people who don't know you (or many of us) and don't take the time or have the time to read people they haven't been seeing regularly. I had three members asked me by e-mail last if I've ever posted a poem on Passions....I guess because it's been a whole week since I've posted one! I would ask you to go by the responses of your "old" friends and not be concerned by the lack of responses of the new ones. There are just so many and they have their friends, too. Such is the way of the world. The same goes for you, Elizabeth. I can't believe either one of you would be slighted by those of us who know you.

As far as Nan not letting you know about Ron's birthday...well, she's not getting any younger, you know. Rumor has it she's going to be able to hide her own Easter eggs this year!  
Member Patricius
since 07-05-99
Posts 11105
Glen Hope, PA USA

12 posted 01-31-2000 10:30 AM       View Profile for hoot_owl_rn   Email hoot_owl_rn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit hoot_owl_rn's Home Page   View IP for hoot_owl_rn

Sally...I'm sorry that you feel this way. I am one of those with the posts in the thousands and am so only because I hate to leave anyone out. I try not to read only certain peoples works and try to replt to as many as I can even if it's just to say I like the content here or this speaks from the heart. I think passions is a wonderful place and although everyone wishes it wouldn't happen, I think anywhere you get 2000+ people together, they are going to seperate into smaller groups...I believe that happens with most animals of groups that large too. I hope to see you post more and glad your feelings haven't caused you to leave
Member Elite
since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada

13 posted 01-31-2000 12:01 PM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

Hi Sally.   I am not familiar with you or your work. I will try and change that. I am a modertor in the teen forum and don't get the chance to spend as much time in open as I would like. I am guilty of what you have ranted about because of my limitations.   When I do get to open I read those I know first and then try to get to the new posts. I also go to the url's that are sent to me by my friends. I wish I had the ability to respond to every post but I am afraid I get near burn out when I attempt to do such. I also have to admit that my first love is prose and I have not found the time to go there in some time.   I understand your feelings and the feelings of those in a similar position. My posts in open generally come in spits and starts. Sometimes I wonder if anyone other then my friends remember

I promise that I will make every effort to change this but I can not guarentee anything. I find reading my old favorites refreshes me after reading teen poetry constaintly. (not infering teens can't write good poetry!)

Gosh I hope this helped.
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