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 So many faiths and so much bigotry.
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Passions in Poetry

So many faiths and so much bigotry.

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suicidal dreams
Member
since 09-28-1999
Posts 345
Toledo Ohio USA


0 posted 11-14-1999 09:43 PM       View Profile for suicidal dreams   Email suicidal dreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suicidal dreams

Ok the first time I heard about the spiritual forum I was so happy because I figured it was a great place for people to learn of the endless amount of beliefs and religions, but now Ive learned otherwise.

Ive posted my poem Heaven in that forum knowing people may not like it due to its what seems satanic nature, but I am hardly a satanist. I am an athiast In a way, I mean I believe in both god and the devil and all that yet I follow neither. The poem was what my beliefs reflect, that to me heaven and hell are one, you cant have one without the other it is logically impossible, but it reflects how to me they are both one, and in my life the darker side was more prevailent in my life.

It really makes me angry though when they say that it doesnt belong in that forum because it does not reflect any of the ideas that appear in the footnote of that forum. Well it does the only reason they said this was because they didnt want to admit that they hate it for the belief cause its so Anti-christ to them, when its not anti-christ or pro satan, and if they cant at least be man or woman enough to admit that, then they shouldnt reply, saying it doesnt belong there.
One last thing b4 I end this. That is I knew this would happen with this forum and I wish that reilious bigotry never existed, why cant we accept others beliefs, wasnt that what America was founded on?

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life is short kill quick
Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


1 posted 11-14-1999 09:57 PM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

I agree with Tom- the footnote for the Spritual forum reads:Poetry and Prose that explores the heights and depths of Faith, Love, and Spiritual growth. Intolerance will NOT be tolerated.

His poem explored a depth, a low point, in faith (my interpretation) and therefore belongs there just as much as any other poem.

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Thinking is just what a great many people think they are doing when they are merely rearranging their predjudices.


DreamEvil
Member Elite
since 06-22-99
Posts 2442


2 posted 11-14-1999 09:57 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Touche'!!

I was worried that all faiths might not be accepted into the Spiritual forum when the idea of it was first presented.

quote:
Poetry and Prose that explores the heights and depths of Faith, Love, and Spiritual growth. Intolerance will NOT be tolerated.


That is from the footer in the forum description. Satanism is accepted as a religion by the U.S. government, therefore anything derogatory said about any satanic or other non-christian post classifies as intolerance which is expressly forbidden in the forum footer. I would then expect attacks on Pagan works posted to Spiritual. Further, the footer says depths. This qualifies as depths.

Somewhat redundant, but having said my piece, I must question why this post was presented here.

quote:
And unless your choice is actually contrary to a forum's theme, we'll respect your decision (I doubt Michael would want too many "Mary had a Little Lamb" poems in Dark.


That is quoted directly from Ron's reply to the discussed poem. With such blanket permission, why was this Alley post necessary?

If solely to inform, I can understand it. If more than that, the poem's location had the backing of the forums' owner. Why then post this?
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Now and forever, my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvilŠ



[This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 11-14-1999).]
Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


3 posted 11-14-1999 10:00 PM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

LoL@intolerance will not be tolerated.....so we're intolerating intolerance (Tina TT brought this up in Feelings, I believe)

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Thinking is just what a great many people think they are doing when they are merely rearranging their predjudices.


Michael
Moderator
Member Ascendant
since 08-13-99
Posts 6333
California


4 posted 11-14-1999 11:38 PM       View Profile for Michael   Email Michael   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michael

Blah blah blah...what the hell is all this. was the post deleted, NO! Was the thread locked, NO! You all have way to much time on your hands....I am as entitled to voice my opinion of his poem as he is to post it...thank you very much, I have nothing else to say....


And btw, who brought up "Satanist" anyway? I surely didn't and I have no idea who you were refering to suicidal, when you stated your case...


Michael

[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 11-14-1999).]
Julie
Senior Member
since 08-20-99
Posts 742
Houston, TX


5 posted 11-15-1999 01:25 AM       View Profile for Julie   Email Julie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Julie

I prefer to stay away from conflict but I have a special interest in the Spiritual forum.
Suicidal Dreams: No one indicated any prejudices against your poem. What I saw was that they had a problem with you double posting. I am a follower of Christ and as for the context of your poem I have no problem with it (not that I agree) but surely respect your right to feel and believe as you wish. This is an opportunity by having this forum to learn from each other. The spiritual forum is very special to me and I will do what I can to keep peace there. I PRAY that any misunderstandings here from myself and other members/moderator will be forgiven. Please don't let this get out of hand.

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Julie
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Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss it, you will land among the stars.~Les Brown~
Michael
Moderator
Member Ascendant
since 08-13-99
Posts 6333
California


6 posted 11-15-1999 08:09 AM       View Profile for Michael   Email Michael   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michael

Suicidal Dreams,

Your original post here upset me deeply. I had intended to only leave my first brief response but am compelled to reply further now that I am of a calmer mind set.

First of all, I in no way implied your post was Satanic or "not" Satanic in any way. That your poem reminds me of hell had no bearing on my reply to it. I believe in heaven and hell and have no problem reading poetry about either. I, personally, have posted many poems in Dark and Prose about hell and demons and the like...they are very real to me. I started the "Dark Forum" much for this very reason, do not feel alone in thinking darker things are prevailent in your life.

That I said the poem didn't fall into the realms of faith, love, and spiritual growth, is a statemnet I still stand by...but then I am entitled to my opinion, am I not? I did not see this poem as "Anti-Christ" as you say but I did see it as anti faith. (My Webster's lists in all definitions faith to be "Unquestionable" in belief and/or trust.) Your poem title even had a question mark, didn't it? You, yourself, claim to be athiest so how can you claim this is a faith poem when heaven and hell are not believed in by athiest? I, personally, have read this many times now and still see no love or spiritual growth here either. Again, that is only my opinion. Funny, I have referred many post in Dark to the Adult Forum or even Open, I have referred poems in Open to the Spirital or Dark and always have done this solely to direct a poem to the Forum where it would probably be best recieved, but this is the first time I have ever been called a bigot for doing so.

That being said, I take grave offense at you telling me what I hate, what I do or do not want to admit or what I do or do not believe. I am more than capable of speaking my opinion and more than willing to do so. I also take offense to the implication of bigotry, here. I am as objectionable a person as you will find here. I could have deleted your post or locked it, but I didn't, did I? That you could jump to such a conclusion over a simple suggestion leads me to believe you just wanted trouble to begin with and when you didn't get it, you decided to make some yourself.

I AM MAN enough to stand up for what I believe in. I believe you owe Ron and I apologies for personal insults and for drumming up this totally un called for thread at our expense. So you can either apologize or let your next lie be born of that truth. I have no more to say.


Michael


[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 11-15-1999).]
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


7 posted 11-15-1999 01:00 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Suicidal it was more on your double posting that was confronted. I don't believe anyone referred to your posting as Satanic!
I said I viewed it as a personal hell you were going through because you stated "this is not the Heaven I know." If it were a spiritual growth or fall that you had then maybe you should have explained that a little more in the poem.
To explore the depths of people's faith is what it is about. Different beliefs, everyone has them. You also posted the same thing in Dark and then in Spiritual, we were simply stating that it better fit in Dark.

I'm not against what you believe by any means but that didn't necessarily come through in your work.

I really hate to see this get all blown out of proportion.
suicidal dreams
Member
since 09-28-1999
Posts 345
Toledo Ohio USA


8 posted 11-15-1999 07:04 PM       View Profile for suicidal dreams   Email suicidal dreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suicidal dreams

Ok first things first. I apologize for starting this but the only reason I did was that people at school said some of these same things to my poem and Ive heard these things so many times that I just went with past qualms and made a mistake.
Second I never called you guys bigots im sorry if thats what you took it as I mainly reffered to the people at my school who have reffered to this poem as satanic and have called me a satanist for it I was just letting out pent up anger on the wrong people and that I am truly sorry for.
Third to truly understand what I meant by this poem and so I have a better chance at apologizing I would like you to E-mail me at THEFAMILYFOUR@prodigy.net

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life is short kill quick
Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


9 posted 11-15-1999 07:13 PM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

In SD's defense- I can see where he's coming from, see my previous post. I do however think that people can give their honest opinions on the poem as a spiritual work (faith or lack therof) along with the suggestion that it would better suit another forum.

In Micheals and Ron's defense- I understand why people don't want others to post in multiple forums....

BUT

In SD's defense- If he ahd simply written the word REPOST, as so many others have done, would he be admonished? And I have posted in two forums, and openly said in a note before the poem that I DID double post it, and got no ill words for it.
I'm not saying this as a fact, but MAYBE,the subject matter had a bit to do with the fact that nobody liked his reposting of it, or double posting, call it what you will.

In Micheal's defense- Tom, you did put words in their mouths, by defending the "satanic" nature of the poem, when nobody called it satanic in the first place. In fact, you assumed A LOT in your original post, a lot which was never said.

I am done on this (for now )


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Thinking is just what a great many people think they are doing when they are merely rearranging their predjudices.


 
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