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Passions in Poetry

Freedom of speech (or..delete this NOW Ron)

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DreamEvil
Member Elite
since 06-22-99
Posts 2442


50 posted 11-14-1999 02:40 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Curious it is that when I ask the self-same questions as Sys does, I receive no response.

Smacks of extreme hypocrisy it does, but then so much else does as well.

The story is posted at an even half dozen sites. All of them are respected sites and none have had the result of having me removed, nor has there been a concerted effort to have me quit posting to those sites. In fact, many have hailed my talent as a storyteller in the horror genre. I had thought horror was a valid literary genre. On that note, many of the books and movies today written in that genre have no clearly defined resolution of Good over Evil. If there was, then the sequel business wouldn't be one for long. Just a thought to end this; How many nursery rhymes that are bloody can you think of? Hansel and Gretel, Red Riding Hood, Beauty and The Beast, Ring Around The Rosy, those fit I think. Political correctness has never been my strong suit.

For those who would prefer to see the scope of non-fictional horror that is more human than supernatural, or those that realize Good does not always triumph over Evil, please hit the following link.

Serial Killer Bureau

If any are offended by this link, please notify me and I will remove the truth from this post.

Now that this thread has degenerated from the topic of censorship and free speech, I pray that this thread be allowed to fall into archival oblivion.
------------------
Now and forever, my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvilŠ



[This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 11-14-1999).]
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


51 posted 11-14-1999 02:50 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

Ummm..... Systematic Decay.... I'm going to suggest the same thing Nan did.... please read my posts again.

I have not posted ANYTHING that was "absolutely furious". During this whole civilized discussion/debate, I have adamently expressed my opinion, yes, but was never "absolutely furious" at anybody. Nope. On the contrary, I have stated repeatedly that I understood the difference of opinion however it was MY opinion that I had not every seen any personal slander here, but instead, people have differing tastes in content. And btw, not ONE person has e-mailed me a link or directed me toward a location of posts by any parties who have supposedly slandered DE or personally attacked him. Nope, not one. Where is the evidence of this? That's all I wanted to see. If he was personally attacked, I never saw it. All I saw was people saying they didn't like the content of his posts.

Yes, Scott's piece made me sick. It was my opinion that it had no redeeming qualities as literature. So sue me. I have nothing against Scott. Never have. It's not something I would choose to read. And IMHO, Ron has full control and rights to decide what he will allow to be posted on HIS website.

I have been kind to DE, AND 1984, and ALL parties during this everlasting eternal debate which seems like it will go on FOREVER!!! There comes a point in time to agree to disagree. That's what I've been saying all along. The deal is, though, I don't like when my words are misread or worse... NOT READ. So, when I see someone didn't understand what I said, I keep coming back to explain it again. Maybe I'm a lousy writer, y'think? Maybe my writing is not clear enough. I dunno. I just feel compelled to set things straight when i see someone misundertsood my verbiage. Similarly, if I don't understand what another is saying, I come back and ask for clarification. Isn't that what debate is all about?

Go back and read what I wrote during this and then come back here and quote even ONE sentence that I wrote that reflected I was "absolutely furious" at Mr. 1984, who we now know is Boomtown. Nope. You won't find even one. You will find my frustration that Andrew hid behind a pseudonym rather than revealing his true identity.

And now that I know who it is, I thanked him for finally coming forward which was the right thing to do. "Absolutely furious"? LOL. No way. I think not. I'm just the type of person who stands strong in my own beliefs, just like Boomtown, and I respect EVERYONE who has strong convictions which they stand by.

This is why I respect Ron so much, too.

If people who disagree have such strong convictions are able to finally come to terms with each other and agree to disagree while agreeing to respect each other, well, then... this world will be a better place. Maybe, one person at a time, we can bring more tolerance to the world. Maybe we can all live in peace, harmony and love one day. Remember this? "What would happen if someone threw a war and nobody came?"

Uh oh... my hippieness is showing (damn... and I tried so hard to keep my age to myself! Darnit!

So, go back and read, my friend. And when you read, read with an open mind and remember this.... When I was in High School AND in college, I wrote articles for a "Free Press" we decided to start (as well as poems and short stories for an "alternative" literary magazine). I have always believed that if the status quo will not accept certain viewpoints, you can either find another venue which WILL accept it, or you can start your own. And so we did.

And btw, EVERY word I have entered in this thread I stand by.... every one of them... I don't mince words, as you can tell... I sometimes talk on and on and on and it's ALL straight from the heart. I wouldn't change a word I said above had I known that Boomtown was really 1984.

Honesty is something I've never had a problem with. It comes really natural for me. Just like DE said, it would be nice if people would take the time to actually READ, rather than skim before they respond.

Thank you all again! Have a great day! And if any of you happens to pass by Virginia, maybe we can meet for happy hour and hash this thing out in person over a nice cold Marguerita. Afterward, we'll have a good laugh, a seafood dinner, and maybe a game of pool. (you coming, Balladeer? hehehe... oh whoops.. you weren't even involved in this debate)


your friend and fellow writer,


doreen peri

[This message has been edited by doreen peri (edited 11-14-1999).]
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


52 posted 11-14-1999 03:28 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

OK, everybody, recess is over...time to go back inside now. It is my hope that everyone has played nicely and that nobody hit anyone else over the head with that great big yellow Tonka truck too many times, and that no-one fell off the jungle gym, and that no-one got too seriously ill and disoriented from the merry-go-round (why it is called that I may never know).

FYI, this thread will not be edited by me, nor deleted, though I could, if'n I so desired. But this is not what I wish to be...I rather enjoyed the initial debate, but lost interest when speakers choose to interject their own biographies into the discussion, thereby nullifying any discourse currently in progress. Oh well...maybe next time.

Alicat, the weary persnikitty
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


53 posted 11-14-1999 06:43 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

Gee whiz, Ali! You couldn't mean you weren't interested in my autobiographical information about an underground venue for literary works during HS & college? Was that what you thought didn't follow?

Nah! Couldn't be. That followed. It must've been something someone else said, not me.

I abhor non sequitur responses. ROFLMAO... everybody knows that about me.

dp
Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


54 posted 11-14-1999 07:35 PM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

Doreen and Nan, I will apologize for my misuse of words. No, neither of you were outraged in any way....however, I saw some negative things, which promptly dissapeared once the author's identity was brought forward. Here, I will quote so that there is no confusion.

Doreen, Although you didn't say anything directly negative to 1984, the beginning of your initial reply had a negative drift to it....maybe I interpreted it wrong, and if so, I apoloqize.: "Out of the clear blue sky, in comes "1984" with all kinds of complaints and opinions about Passions of Poetry. Let me ask you, "1984".... how much time to you spend at Passions?"

Nan, you seemed so insistent that whoever the author of this post was should go- here is a quote from your initial reply:" If you'd like to move over there, I'm sure they'd love to have you. Just email me for the URL." Here, you were basically saying, here's a less worthy site, go there instead. And this speaks for itself:"Unfortunately, there are always ingrates who feel the need to put a monkey wrench into a fine-tuned machine. I, for one, am very glad that we can toss them out the door and lock them out."

Nan, here too are two quotes of yours that contradict each other. In your first reply:"I cannot and will not allow any disparagement of his philosophies on "free speech" to be posted without my own remand." This makes it seem that you had a problem with him posting his opinion. But, her is another quote from your latest reply:"I was never angry at Andrew for expressing his opinions. He has an absolute right to feel them and to state them." Your attitude did a 180 when you knew who it was.

Now, you have no problem with him.......and would be happy to have him stay.

Doreen, I feel that I have misread your comments, much more than I have Nan's, and for that I apologize. But Nan, you clearly contradict yourself as soon as 1984 became Boomtown, based on the fact that "I have had a positive rapport with this man for well over a year, and I totally expect that will continue. We can disagree - and still respect each other and remain friends."


I have one last thing to say; had this post been started by Scott, under another alias- how long do you think it would be before he was banned from passions altogether?

I only wish I could say this is the end, I'm done with this. But I have the feeling this crazy debate is far from over.

**sigh**

------------------
Thinking is just what a great many people think they are doing when they are merely rearranging their predjudices.




[This message has been edited by Systematic Decay (edited 11-14-1999).]
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


55 posted 11-14-1999 08:02 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

Thank you, Systematic Decay, for taking the time to scroll up and read my previous posts.

Yes, at the beginning, I made this comment: "Out of the clear blue sky, in comes "1984" with all kinds of complaints and opinions about Passions of Poetry. Let me ask you, "1984".... how much time to you spend at Passions?"

This commnet was to show that I was astounded that someone who I'd never heard of seemed to know so much about the postings and problems of Passions and have such strong opinions about it...and after I thought this entire subject was over a week ago. This was simply my way of asking who 1984 really was.... whether the person using that pen name was a frequent visitor of Passions and whether it was someone we all knew hiding behind a name. It was my way of asking the person posting as 1984 to be honest with everyone about his identity.

I'm very glad Andrew decided to finally tell everyone it was him.

-doreen

Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


56 posted 11-14-1999 08:48 PM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

Doreen, here is a link to Scott's poem, Loving Wife

Loving Wife

Here is a link to a prose piece by Severn, Schizophrenia, which is very similar to Scott's in subject matter. Compare the replies.

Schizophrenia


------------------
Thinking is just what a great many people think they are doing when they are merely rearranging their predjudices.


doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


57 posted 11-14-1999 10:11 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

Hello again, SD... thank you for the links. I just sat here and read both... several times.

I remember the DE poem called "Loving Wife" because I was one of the ones who responded to it. I didn't read the other prose piece by Severn until now.

First, I do not think any of the responses to DE were personally attacking. All the "negative" responses were referring to the content, IMHO.

The piece by Severn was very moving and although there are similarities, as you suggest, in subject matter, the pieces are quite different in content.

The BIG difference is that Severn's piece showed a great deal of love for her mother. DE's piece did not show ANY underlying love. I believe some of the responses to DE's piece were very negative because the words suggested that schizophrenia was to be loathed and made his wife out to be some kind of monster. Contrarily, the content of Severn's piece referred repeatedly to the mother she loved, despite the illness, and how she wished she could have that mother back.

It's hard to explain, but my humble opinion is that when the general public is confronted by hatred, they react negatively. When they are confronted by love, they react positively. This is very overly simplified. But if you read both pieces yourself again AND the responses, you can hopefully see what I'm trying to say.

The biggest issue is whether ANY of the comments to Scott's post personally attacked or berated him as a person. And I don't think that happened at all. I think the negative reaction was to how the verbiage spoke of the illness in terms of hatred without a bit of love behind it. There were no negative comments to Scott as a person, IMHO.

Thanks again for listening. Hopefully we can all realize that people see things differently and let this go.

To all, I apologize if my posts here were lengthy and if you were tired of hearing from me.

-dp
Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


58 posted 11-14-1999 11:00 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

My Dear Miss Systematic DeBergerac

Kindly do not put inferences of my own words into my mouth. I say what I mean and I mean what I say... It's that simple. Allow me to reiterate my words which have been haphazardly removed from my context.

" If you'd like to move over there, I'm sure they'd love to have you. Just email me for the URL."

Do you happen to notice the key words "If you'd like"??? I do not imply, nor should you infer any insistence of any kind on my part.

I said, "Unfortunately, there are always ingrates who feel the need to put a monkey wrench into a fine-tuned machine. I, for one, am very glad that we can toss them out the door and lock them out."


This is a generalization - I made no specific allusions to individuals. Do NOT infer otherwise.

I said, "I cannot and will not allow any disparagement of his philosophies on "free speech" to be posted without my own remand."

You, Miss Decay, said, "This makes it seem that you had a problem with him posting his opinion."

....Not so - This comment obviously states that I will express my own opinion on this issue. Do NOT infer otherwise.

I said, "I was never angry at Andrew for expressing his opinions. He has an absolute right to feel them and to state them."


My attitude did no turns whatsoever. Please refer to my above entry for a complete explanation.

Do not EVER interpret MY words as anything other than what is clearly stated therein.



[This message has been edited by Nan (edited 11-14-1999).]
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


59 posted 11-15-1999 02:17 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Heck...aren't you guys busy when my back is turned...I know, you just wanted to give me something to read when I came back..*g*

1984

I can't help but ask myself why you have such a conviction but choose to post under an alias...well, ok, we all do or most post under one but why not under the recognised one, surely it would have given your case more emphasis, no?

As for everyone else...Freedom of Speech surely has to be something that means something different to each of us but I would like to think that it means taking into consideration what others think and most of all that we are able to debate a point rather than attack the owner for his/her beliefs...

I think that this is Ron's home and we've all be invited into it and much like when someone comes to my home, they follow my rules...i.e...I hate swearing and so, no one swears in my house...enuff said!..*g*

I think everyone should have a group HUG!

HUGS

------------------
You give but little when you give of your possessions. It is when you give of yourself that you truly give.
Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


60 posted 11-15-1999 06:22 PM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

"Unfortunately, there are always ingrates who feel the need to put a monkey wrench into a fine-tuned machine. I, for one, am very glad that we can toss them out the door and lock them out."

Nan, why would you make this comment, on this post, after what was said, had it not been aimed at 1984? Who was it aimed at then? If there are always ingrates, give me some examples to prove it was not aimed at 1984. I just think it is quite a coincidence that you say something like that....(which if it wasn't aimed at 1984, is quite an irrelevant statement) and then you were perfectly satisfied with the fact that it had been Boomtown...sure, a bit upset, but perfectly willing to have him stay, when before, you had, either irrelevantly (which I don't think someone of your stature would do, but then I didn't think you'd resort to name calling either)or towards Andrew, stated the above.

And, may I ask, why did you call me that name, and what exactly did you mean by it? Certainly not that someone else was telling me what to say in my replies...(?) NO...not a moderator....one of the "police officers" of the site......Why would someone as respected as yourself resort to calling names? I simply can't fathom any reason for it.....other than to imply something you thought I wouldn't catch....do you think that even if I didn't understand it, I would simply say, "Oh, I'll just forget it?" NO! I asked several people I know on icq what it meant, and got the impression that I spoke of above. Please, please explain to me WHY you did that.

And why is it that you only resort to name calling after I directly quote your contradictions?

And everyone ignored my previous question...what if it had been Scott who had posted that?


------------------
Thinking is just what a great many people think they are doing when they are merely rearranging their predjudices.


Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


61 posted 11-15-1999 07:57 PM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

Nan-

It has been brought to my attention that I have yet again misinterpreted you- I misinterpreted the name you gave me- I apologize, though I still stand by my observations on your comments. I am truly sorry, for not REALLY listening to the explaination of the character....

One last thing-THIS CONTROVERSY IS DESTROYING PASSIONS....ALL OF THE CONTROVERSY- LETS JUST END IT HERE. TO ANYONE i OFFENDED, OR MISREAD, OR MISINTERPRETED, I AM SORRY! SO LETS JUST STOP IT ALL NOW. I AM (FINALLY) DONE WITH THIS TOPIC, MY LAST WORDS ARE I'M SORRY I EVER GOT INVOLVED, AND IMSORRY IT SEEMS PASSIONS HAS BECOME THIS WAY. I WILL FROM NOW ON POST IN A THREAD SUCH AS THIS ONLY WHEN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, TO INCLUDE A VIEW NO ONE ELSE HAS MENTIONED. I AM DONME WITH THIS ONE.....EVERYONE JUST LISTEN TO RG, HUG, AND MAKE UP....I FEEL LIKE A FOOL FOR EVEN AHVING GOTTEN INVLOVED, WHEN I COULD HAVE BEEN READING POETRY.

-AMY-



------------------
Thinking is just what a great many people think they are doing when they are merely rearranging their predjudices.


Elizabeth Santos
Member Rara Avis
since 11-08-1999
Posts 9405
Pennsylvania


62 posted 01-30-2000 01:05 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth Santos   Email Elizabeth Santos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Elizabeth Santos

1984,
You have total freedom of thought and freedom to write anything you want, but once you subject that writing to the public eye there comes a innate responsibility to the sensitivity of the beholder in a society. Total freedom as you wish it is not accepted in just any society, that's why we protect our children from pornography by a form of censorship, that's why Ron has every right to "censor" whatever he deems necessary from this sight. I don't even understand why there would be a question about this. We are in HIS website. He has opened the door, he has a right to close it. And we have a choice to comply with his standards, to present our work on a site that does accept it, or to construct a site of our own. We still have freedom. You are obviously extremely intelligent and I would love to read some of your poetry.
Liz  
Isis
Member Ascendant
since 09-06-99
Posts 6390
Sunny Queensland


63 posted 01-31-2000 12:20 AM       View Profile for Isis   Email Isis   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Isis's Home Page   View IP for Isis

I'll just add a bit here, late as always.
This is all so simple, Ron's home, Ron's rules, if we don't like them tough.  Either put up with them or leave.
The forum rules work well they must have as Passions has lasted this long.
Like any diplomatic place, there must be rules in order for it to work.
Simple.

 Let your heart guide you. It whispers, so listen closely.
~Isis~
(Sovereign of the Spirit)


LoveBug
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Ascendant
since 01-08-2000
Posts 5015


64 posted 02-01-2000 04:04 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Hey. Well, I haven't been here very long, but I have to agree with censorship of profane poetry. All Ron and the other moderators have asked of us is that we hold up the morals that we already uphold (or should uphold), and respect our fellow poets and the readers of this forum. Most of us do not want to read profane poetry. My father goes through the history of pages I visit every day, and if I went to a profane poem on accident, he would block this webpage, and that's the last thing I want!

And as of your "freedom of speech"... well, you would never begin cursing if you visited a church or a session of Congress or anything like that unless you had very bad manners. What would happen if you did this? You would get the boot, of course. Why should it be any diffrent here?

Well, there's my opinion.

 "To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world"
Boomtown
Junior Member
since 07-01-99
Posts 20


65 posted 02-04-2000 09:25 PM       View Profile for Boomtown   Email Boomtown   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Boomtown

LOL...The ironic thing is that my works- and screen name have NOT been deleted. I requested this in light of the commercialization of the site, the moderation of it's words, the restriction of freespeech that is ART. Is the growth or death of art. Such moderation never effected me, but it MAY someday. MAY is enough for me. I shall not exist quietly within that. Despite my request to Ron, Nan and Michael via email in November 1999, my limited works (dating back to when it had 30 members) and name exist. This is 3 months later, and I still see this discussion is going on. And, I'm still able to post here. Why?

Live free..write free. or live with the consequences. Your choice. I made mine and standed up for it. Now you can leave my name- and my works and have an interesting advisary in this cause of "niceness" (which I live too, but should not have to) or you can get rid of me.

Your choice, moderators. Make a stand.
Craig
Senior Member
since 06-10-99
Posts 882


66 posted 02-04-2000 10:13 PM       View Profile for Craig   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Craig


Boomtown

I can only presume that your request for the deletion of your works was not received by Ron or the moderators and feel sure that now it has been highlighted your wishes will be executed in short order.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile requesting the removal of your work again just to be sure the message has been received correctly.


 Yes, I admit your general rule. That every poet is a fool:
But I myself may serve to show it. That every fool is not a poet.

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


67 posted 02-04-2000 11:50 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

First, Boomtown, I think you are misremembering: I have personally never received any email from you. And when you joined Passions, there were 247 people in front of you, not 30. Second, your Username wasn't disabled simply because you never broke any rules that required it being disabled. Expressing an opinion in a civilized manner was not, is not, and never will be against the rules.

When you went back and edited those opinions, however, you crossed over that line. I never explicitly asked you to post your poetry at Passions. I never asked you to express your opinions. When you did so, though, you invited discussion and response. A dialog between yourself and the other Members of Passions. Returning later to change your words, several days after that discussion had been resolved, impacts not just your side of the dialog. It impacts both sides. Your actions rob the responses you invited of their meaning, whether in part or in whole. You choose to see it as a protest. But it doesn't hurt me, the object of your protest. It only hurts the people you engaged in dialog. Protest? Or simple bad manners?

I chose not to enter this discussion previously because it was obvious from the beginning that nothing I said was going to change your mind. I chose to agree to disagree, rather than try to argue against platitudes preached in a microcosm. The truth is, you and I are not in as large a disagreement as you might think. I, too, believe in freedom. There are plenty of places on the Internet, such as the Scroll, that allow and even encourage glorifications of smut and hate. That's freedom. But there are also plenty of places, such as Disney, that choose to lend their names only to the precepts they believe promote harmony and discourage hate. And that is freedom, too. Were someone to come along and argue that all the Scrolls on the Internet should be shut down, I suspect you and I would stand shoulder to shoulder in protest, Boomtown. It is only when someone comes along and argues that Disney must allow bigotry, wanton violence, and persecutions that you and I would disagree. I will not lend my name or efforts to a site that allows personal attacks. Period. That simple rule accounts for about 99 percent of what you choose to call censorship. The remaining one percent - which represent about four works of "art" out of some 30,000 - were glorifications of rape, child abuse or suicide. And again, I will not lend my name or efforts to a site that promotes people hurting people. Nor will I apologize for it.

Your poetry has been deleted, Boomtown. Sadly, the responses to your poetry were necessarily deleted as well. Does that mean your request in effect caused those people who posted honest responses to be censored? I'm not sure it's fair that one Member can implicitly ask to have the words of another deleted. Nor am I sure it's fair that a Member can edit the meaning of their words and, in doing so, subtly change the meaning of a dialog. Unfortunately, in the interests of freedom, there are rarely any easy answers.

The contents of this thread, and certainly this theme, could perhaps warrant a great deal more discussion. It might well wend its way into 2001, and I definitely don't want to discourage that discussion. But, not surprisingly, this thread has also grown excessively long, now taking several minutes just to load. I encourage anyone who would like to address these concerns to start a new thread, referencing back to this one. I am closing this thread, because of its length, but the discussion is free to continue.

 
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