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Christian Forgiveness

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DreamEvil
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0 posted 10-07-1999 04:11 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

I have to ask, why in the hell do people pretend to be christian and spout forgiveness and then refuse to practice what they preach?

Is it just to satisfy their pride so they can say they are christian without having to look at their own actions or because they are too obtuse to see themselves for the hypocrites they are? Perhaps guilt is their motivation.

While I am here, what about this turning the other cheek drivel? Doesn't that just set you up to be put down again? 'Tis like unilateral disarmament. I will get rid of all weapons of mass destruction that I have just so you can see that I am not a threat to you. Then you will get rid of yours. How incredibly naive that thought is. To do so when human nature and history shows a predilection for violence borders on the insane. Sure you can rob and beat me, but go ahead and do it to my family too. Give me a break.

By the way, though this is letting off steam, the questions are not rhetorical. End of rant.

------------------
Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvil©

Ron
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1 posted 10-07-1999 05:25 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

The problem, of course, is that you're confusing people with Christianity and human frailty with divine perfection.

Christ did forgive. Christ did turn the other cheek. The fact that people trying to emulate Christ and follow His teachings inevitably fail doesn't detract from the worth of the goal. It simply means we're all less than perfect.
Mike
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2 posted 10-07-1999 07:00 PM       View Profile for Mike   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mike

Hyprocrisy is by no means limited to Christians. Perhaps you might endeavor to learn more about the peace churches (Quaker, Brethern, and Mennonite) they have endured against the evils of mankind living the teachings of the New Testament. I might add, it is a common failing to equate forgiveness with lack of accountability. Being a member of a Mennonite church, I feel fairly comfortable in saying most of the members are not naive, they rely on faith.

[This message has been edited by Mike (edited 10-07-1999).]
Poet deVine
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3 posted 10-07-1999 07:35 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I think you are generalizing. If one specific Christian does not "practice what they preach" then your problem is with that one person. A lot of people cover themselves in the mantle of Christianity for various reasons. But ultimately, each person is responsible for his/her own actions. They may not be judged here on earth, but they surely will in Heaven.

To continue with your point about turning the other cheek - I am a great admirer of those that can do this! I counsel my friends to do this - don't let anyone bring you down to their level is what I normally say. Turning the other cheek is harder than standing and fighting, for it's a true form of love. If someone hits me and I hit them back, I've sunk to that level of violence. If I turn the other cheek, I've said that I do not approve but will not do something against my beliefs.

I've read a lot about Quakers and admire their faith and their strength of character.

Here's a question for you - why so angry? No one, including you, is perfect. Accept that. I am not. Ron is not. Mike is not. We can't expect perfection from people...it's too hard to achieve...it's why young girls become anorexic, why athletes take steriods, why some kids cheat on tests to get good grades. We should not expect perfection.. how dull we would all be if we were perfect!

End of my rant!

Nan
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4 posted 10-07-1999 09:11 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

I just can't equate humanity with hypocrisy. That would be assuming a basic malevolency in human nature that I cannot accept. I believe that mankind has an inherent predilection for "goodness", with perhaps an unfortunate abundance of egocentrism; but self-righteousness is quite unbecoming.

All we can do is our best. That means being respectful of each other, even in the face of disagreement and adversity. God knows there's more than enough negativity in the world today.

If people would begin to realize that intelligence wasn't invented in the 20th century, we could actually learn a great deal from our forefathers - even the ancient ones (like Jesus Christ) who were devoid of modern technology. They certainly had a timeless understanding of human nature, though - Didn't they?
DreamEvil
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5 posted 10-07-1999 09:36 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

By the numbers:

Ron, I am speaking of those that claim to be christian yet do not practice christian beliefs. I understand that no one is perfect, but to say you are not perfect is the excuse these people use to continue with their very unchristian behaviors. I am not generalizing christians, just commenting on those that do not even try to be what they claim to aspire to. Humanity as a whole is a subject for another rant.

Mike,
I have done some research into Amish and Mennonite faith, and again I speak of those that profess the teachings and do not even try to practice them.

Lady deVine,
I turned the other cheek for years because retaliation would only show that I deserve what I received to begin with, not out of love for my fellow man. Again, I speak of a specific group of christians. I am not generalizing at all. I do not say, all christians, only those who's actions show they do not practice what they purport to believe.
Why so angry? I deplore hypocrisy and this particular brand of it is responsible for an immense amount of cultural harm. Klansmen go to church and worship God then go out and trash humans for being a different color. The Crusades, Roman expansionism, and many others are large scale examples of this hypocrisy at work.

Nan,
I agree that we should all do our best, but many more only give lip service to God and continue with their uncivil behavior. If one tries their hardest and fails, I will be the first to help them up. If someone chooses to not even try, they deserve nothing but the scorn and derision they heap upon others.

------------------
Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvil©

WhtDove
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6 posted 10-07-1999 09:44 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

First here Dream. Forgivness is something we do because Christ forgave us. We all fall short, and it's hard to see our own faults sometimes. But I wouldn't call it being hypocritical.
As far as turning the other cheek, that is a misunderstanding I feel as most see it. When you are in God's word or speaking of it, and you offend someone you are to turn the other cheek. Being a Christian don't mean you have to let others walk all over you. If someone in the street walks up and just belts you, well then I'd belt back. When it comes to God's word and they are offended and belt you then you turn the other cheek. This is all I will say on the subject.
Christopher
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7 posted 10-08-1999 02:43 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

OK, my opinion, (of course I have one!)
When you speak of our forefathers nan, which are you speaking of? Are you talking about the ones who used the "tenants" of the church to start a hypocritical "crusade" termed as the inquisition? Are you speaking about those in Christ's time who preached all equal under the eyes of God while still holding slaves, with women being little more? I know there are many more than the ones I speak of, but ever has history run alongside war, racism, hypocrisy, etc. It's a fact that man progress only amidst strife.
My point being: Hypocrisy is not a new ideal. There is a lot to be said from studying our history, and preventing what happened before.
In my opinion, hipocrites are a species of man that will ever be. They are the people who desire to be a part of a family or group and are willing to "pretend" to believe/be something they aren't.
Now as with Dream, I am not saying all people. There are people who are true believers, and my hat's off to them. I applaud such people for their faith, a thing so difficult to come by. But I have no tolerance for those who use religion as a crutch to live their lives as they chose, hurting, lying, "pretending," only to fall back on their piety when accosted with guilt or accusations. (Yes, we can even be hipocritic to ourselves.)
No one is perfect.
I think that attempting to reach that perfection is faulted by the very act of trying. We are not perfect, nor can ever be. We can only try to be the best people we can be according to our beliefs. And we can do our best to avoid proclaiming one thing and doing another.
Alicat
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8 posted 10-08-1999 05:32 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, Scott, I too once held that Christians were a bunch of weak, squeamish, hypocritical bunch of losers. Then I became one after years of searching: atheism, agnosticism, wicca and paganism, nihilism, doaism...tried them all. Finally settled on the one which I felt right to me.

And, sure, I will admit that many self-proclaimed Christians have done unspeakable things, from destroying the last of the Coptic faith, sacking Constaninople during the 4th Crusade, the KKK and their rigid Southern Baptists ethics.

But others have done the same under different flags...Hitler was pagan, Stalin was atheist, but since they were not "Christians", I guess their crimes against humanity really don't count.

Now, I have no problems at all with other tenets and beliefs, much to the chagrin of pagan friends...they would actually feel better about what they hold to be true if I hated what they believe, like they do towards me. But I turn the other cheek, and actually try to learn about what they hold so dear, and if their faith can withstand the fires of scorn and ridicule. Despite hardships, deaths, and persecution, my faith in my Lord God and Jesus Christ has not faltered nor broken. If anything, it has increased.

I agree with you on the point that there are many hypocritical Christians walking around today...there are. I refer to them as Church Clothes Christians...like their Sunday Best, their faith and beliefs are worn but once a week. But I do not hate nor disdain them...rather, I have pity on them for what they are missing out on...the beautiful, sublime, wonderous love of God, felt and known.

As I was working tonight, the thought came up in my head once more of all the little rumors of things one DreamEvil had said about me to others...made me smile, it did. And, like I said once before, for this and for other things, I forgive you. And, unlike a gift you don't care for, it cannot be given back to the giver.


Alicat, the twitterpated satiated kilted kitty

[This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 10-08-1999).]
DreamEvil
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9 posted 10-08-1999 06:55 AM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Alicat, just to round out the effect here, I have studied and practiced, Taoism, Buddhism, various forms of Paganism, Satanism (no surprise), three offshoots of christianity, Shintoism, aetheism (more of a philosophy), and various others.

I target hypocritical christians because they are the ones I have the issue with. Not even my Satanic friends practice the same degree of hypocrisy as do christians.

I will accept your forgiveness but I will save it for when it is truly warranted, if you don't mind.

------------------
Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvil©

[This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 10-08-1999).]

[This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 10-08-1999).]
Sunshine
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10 posted 10-08-1999 09:15 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

All of the above is quite interesting reading.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Period.

No one is going to change someone else's behavior. See Nan, and do your best to be the person you should be, and let your conscience be your guide.

Short. Not trite. Now, on to two other subjects one should not speak about in mixed company: politics and sex.
Alicat
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11 posted 10-08-1999 11:47 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Hmmm...well, I guess it all boils down to standards being held. For instance, a vegan having a burger (all beef, baby) would be hypocritical, but not so just an average meat and potatoes man who held to no such standard. Now, if I practiced Enlightened Egocentrism, I would be fine and dandy, with no hypocrisy to speak of, no matter what I did...no societal standards that any would no of (up until the indictment). And the pundits have stated, as well as prominent religious figures throughout history, what and how a Christian should behave and live. But again, it goes back to standards. A Christian Scientist would not buy an antibiotic, while a Baptists would have no problem doing so. Jehovah's Witnesses cannot be critiqued by the same standards as an Amish. Hmmm...well, maybe they can be judged by the basic, bare bones, sediment tenets of what they believe...the stuff left over when you strip and boil away all the fluff, tradition, sacrament, rote, dogma, doctrine, and semantics...when all you have left is the seed that started that personal belief, then a comparison can be made between various religions, "Christian" and "Others".

And DreamEvil, I will save up as well until it is warranted.

Pax Christu

Alicat the twitterpated satiated kilted kitty
DreamEvil
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12 posted 10-08-1999 12:34 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

I agree with you Alicat, on that point at least. I help others and do good deeds (I define what is good, for myself) solely to help others, not out of obligation or religious dogma. I do it not because it makes me feel good (it does) and not because some anthropomorphic deity says I should, but because I see the vast need for help that exists and because it is right. I am firmly and well-grounded in my personal beliefs regardless of the religion I happen to be studying or practicing. In that spirit, I believe that we are both laboring under misconceptions and preconceptions about each other. Out of respect for Satiate whom we both care for deeply, albeit in different ways perhaps, as well as ending these thinly veiled admonitions and digs at each other (subtle and otherwise), I am willing to let all that has come before be water under the bridge at this point. To that effect, I apologize for anything that I may have done, real or imagined (covering the bases), that may have helped to foster this animosity between us. Somewhat like that unilateral disarmament mentioned above, that apology and sentiment comes irregardless of whether you reciprocate or not.
May we at least discontinue with the sarcasm and reference to rumor and innuendo? I am sure you are aware of exactly what I mean as you are not unintelligent. That is not a dig by the way, just a statement of fact.

------------------
Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvil©



[This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 10-08-1999).]
Saxoness
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13 posted 10-08-1999 03:41 PM       View Profile for Saxoness   Email Saxoness   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Saxoness

DreamEvil,

If you are grounded in your own "personal" beliefs, why have you studied and practiced so many other religions? I always thought being grounded in something meant you stuck to it, not wandered around searching for something else.
I have another question........you say you have issues with hypocritical Christians, but what type of hypocracy do you refer to? Perhaps you already stated this, and I appologize if I misinterpreted your statement, but I believe you refered to Christians who do not practice their beliefs. I can only assume that you have caught a few of us who have slipped up in a moment of time, or perhaps a longer period, and have made assumptions about their spirituality. You must remember that Christian does not mean perfect. We are Christ-ians......meaning we believe and follow the teachings of Christ. That does not mean we are perfect, or that we have not acted out of spite, or hate, or revenge.........it simply means that we strive to follow and please God. I'm in no way stating that all who claim to be Christians are. And sadly, most non Christians use that as an excuse to discount our beliefs. There are TRUE hypocrites in the world, but in most circumstances, they are the ones who get away with it. They are the ones who stay in the gray areas, weaving between right and wrong. And as I said before, I could be wrong, but I think you are basing and developing your opinions into a well thought out argument, on a few observances of simple human nature. We all answer for our own sins, and no one elses misdeads in life can be blamed for the choices and life decisions of others. I don't have all of the answers, and I mess up more than I like to admit. But I am not a hypocrite. I suggest you examine your feelings more closely, and in doing so, you will discover that your opinion MIGHT NOT be as correct as you profess it.

------------------
"Glory remains unaware of my neglected dwelling where alone
I sing my tearful song which has charms only for me."

-Charles Brugnot




[This message has been edited by Saxoness (edited 10-08-1999).]
DreamEvil
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14 posted 10-08-1999 05:29 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

I will be happy to explain it again. I take issue with those that give lip service to God and practice their beliefs only when it suits them or their goals. Hypocrisy such as going to a brothel after church and not forgiving those that do them wrong nor even trying to.

As for being grounded in my beliefs, I do not take what my parents or anyone says as gospel. I believe that there is some truth in every philosophy or belief, so I search for those truths. To discount religions that have existed far longer than christianity without even considering that they may have the right of it is really very childish and naive, for if they were not as valid as christianity they would not still be practiced.

Perfection? Who said anything about achieving it? You should try to follow the tenets of your religion. The trying is what I have a problem with as anyone can say they have tried, though most don't even think about it at all when the need for say, forgiveness, comes up. If they did, there would be much less violence and misunderstanding in the world.

You are entirely wrong as I am not basing it upon the fallibility of human nature but the failure to continue trying. If you are not a hypocrite, tell me where your forgiveness is for those who have wronged you with real or imagined slights. As for examining my feelings, I know what they are and they have no bearing on this simple recitation of fact and observances gleaned from my own experiences and those of many others.

------------------
Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvil©

fjones
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15 posted 10-08-1999 05:30 PM       View Profile for fjones   Email fjones   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fjones

Christian forgiveness? Why are you so angry? When you need forgiveness and donít receive it from the person, why canít you just move on. Being judgmental of that person isnít going to get you anywhere. If you are a Christian ask Godís forgiveness. He will give it every time and never hold the sin against you. Christian or non-Christian, you can be a hypocrite.
doreen peri
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16 posted 10-08-1999 06:06 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

D-Evil,

I really don't want to get into this discussion at all but wanted note an observation: Every time you have typed the word "Christian", you have typed it as "christian" with a lower case "c". On the other hand, every time you've typed the names of other religions, you've used an initial cap. Were these all typos?

Just curious.

Oh, and another comment. Isn't it wonderful to have a place to discuss our feelings and faith or lack of it? God truly made a wide variety of perceptions and it's so interesting to hear the views of others. I was wondering about those who don't live in a "free" country like the US. Does the internet loose those boundaries of things they are not allowed to talk about? Just wondering if any of you know (sorry to change the subject).

About the hypocrites, Christ dealt with that when he said, "Forgive them for they know now what they do". People aren't perfect. That's why He lived. That's why he died.

Unfortunately, people have done many horrific things in the name of God. This, and often this alone, has turned people away from seeking out God. It is very unfortunate, indeed. But God knew that we would be like this because He created us and gave us free will. He knew we weren't perfect. That's why Christ had to come. Oh well. We can strive to be the best possible people we can be, can't we?

Maybe one day you'll be able to forgive the hypocrites just like Christ did. And hopefully, He'll be able to forgive you and me for not being perfect.

Ok, ladies and gentleman. Carry on. That's my 3 or 4 cents.


dp
Saxoness
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17 posted 10-08-1999 06:27 PM       View Profile for Saxoness   Email Saxoness   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Saxoness

A religion doesn't have to be valid to be practiced.
What religions, exactly, have been practiced longer than Christianity, besides the Jewish? Pagan religions? Specify please.
You claim you argument is not on perfection, yet you critisize anyone who does not display it in your eyes.
You also say, and I quote, " The
trying is what I have a problem with as anyone can say they have tried, though most don't even think about it
at all when the need for say, forgiveness, comes up. If they did, there would be much less violence and
misunderstanding in the world."

And yet, in your earlier argument, you say and again I quote " While I am here, what about this turning the other cheek drivel? Doesn't that just set you up to be put down
again? 'Tis like unilateral disarmament. I will get rid of all weapons of mass destruction that I have just so you
can see that I am not a threat to you. Then you will get rid of yours. How incredibly naive that thought is. To
do so when human nature and history shows a predilection for violence borders on the insane. Sure you can
rob and beat me, but go ahead and do it to my family too. Give me a break."

First, you claim that turning the other cheek, or in essence forgiving an enemy, is drivel. And then, you claim that the world would be a little better if we could all remember to forgive.
Which is it? It helps to stick with one argument, since we are discussing Hypocracy.

And I'd like to know how, exactly, how you can prove that "most don't even think about it at all when the need for say, forgiveness comes up." Why do you make statements that are so obviously unfounded? Have you taken national surveys? No. This is merely what you choose to believe, which does not make it truth.
And you ask about my own forgiveness. My forgiveness is in my heart, DreamEvil. I forgave my parents for the mistakes they make, I forgive others who tresspass against me, I forgave two boys who took my innocence. I did not have to do so. But I did, and shall continue to do so for the rest of my life.
I turn the other cheek.

Christianity does not have a monopoly on hypocracy. So why the vehemenence? All we can do is keep trying. And, for the most part, we do. We srtive to be Christ like. And there is no hypocracy in that.

------------------
"Glory remains unaware of my neglected dwelling where alone
I sing my tearful song which has charms only for me."

-Charles Brugnot


[This message has been edited by Saxoness (edited 10-08-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Saxoness (edited 10-08-1999).]
DreamEvil
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18 posted 10-08-1999 10:01 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Perhaps you should read the entire thread and see the progression of attitude that develops before making such statements.

Specifics? Voudoun, Santeria, Wicca (far older), the Egyptian mythos, Babylonian mythos (Gilgamesh), and countless others. Of course, you will say that they are all Pagan, but consider this; every time the the Catholic Church converted a population at swordpoint, their gods were incorporated as demons. That implies that they did exist outside of the Christian mythos.

I said that turning the other cheek is drivel and in my opinion it is because I do not see it practiced, even here in the Alley. Conversely, the world would benefit from it if it were practiced by the majority. You are implying a disparity or hypocrisy on my part that does not exist.

As usual for the Alley, I ask a question and instead of answers I receive attacks on my statements and beliefs. Excuse me, that is not entirely accurate. I have received several answers and have ruminated on them. If you care to look, you will find that I have even reconsidered an old animosity in light of the answers I have received. So, again, I ask that you read the entire thread before making such statements.

fJones,
I understand that hypocrites come in every faith. Hypocrisy is a human failing not a religious one. I have more hassles from christian hypocrites than from any other faith and I have several friends of many faiths. It is not an individual that cannot forgive that concerns me but an entire subset within christianity. I dislike hypocrites of whatever faith, but tend to have more problems with those professing christianity.

Doreen,
It is intentional, the lack of caps on christianity. Simply because I wish to make a distinction between the faith and those who practice it. Perhaps one day I can forgive them, but not today. I can forgive one who is sorry and wishes to make amends, not one who continues to commit the same hypocrisy without change.

------------------
Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvil©



[This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 10-08-1999).]
Mike
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19 posted 10-09-1999 01:20 AM       View Profile for Mike   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mike

Biting tongue here...
Saxoness
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20 posted 10-09-1999 02:11 AM       View Profile for Saxoness   Email Saxoness   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Saxoness

Ok, here we go again. You know, I love a good discussion!

Please do not assume that I have not read the "entire" thread. I, in fact, have read it several times before replying to anything.

The other "Gods" as you put it, were claimed as demons because it was false worship of an idol. I fail to see how this proves their existance. Nor, do I condone past methods of conversions. Druids incorporated human sacrifices, but I do not hear any arguments for that.

Back to the cheek bit. I fear you truly do not understand the concept of turning the other cheek. Have you ever read the Lord's prayer? If not, there is a bit about forgiving our tresspasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us. Turning the other cheek does NOT mean being walked over. It means forgiving the slights made against us.
You claim it is not to be found in the alley. I disagree completely. If forgiveness was lacking here, then arguments such as these would not take place. If such animosity and hard feelings existed here, then this forum would simply no longer be. Can you tell me how it isn't practiced in the Alley? I was under the impression that these conversations were respectful. Are you feeling defensive? Because I do not think others are.....I am not. As to my earlier statement, I was merely pointing out that you had conflicting statements. I wondered which one you felt was true, a question you have yet to answer.

I'm glad that you understand that none of this is meant as an attack, on either side.
And again, I will restate, I have indeed read the entire thread.

Why do you have more problems with those proffessing Chrisitianity? And you must remember, that critisizing one's religion is almost certain to draw negative feed back. I get the impression that you comment on Christianity more than others, and therefore may lie the reason why you feel Christians are more volatile.

DE, there is no distinction between the religion, and those who practice it. None at all. Please have enough respect for our opinions, if not our religion, and use correct capitalization.

------------------
"Glory remains unaware of my neglected dwelling where alone
I sing my tearful song which has charms only for me."

-Charles Brugnot




[This message has been edited by Saxoness (edited 10-09-1999).]
DreamEvil
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21 posted 10-09-1999 02:44 AM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

They worshipped idols no more than christians worship the crucifix or the cross. The statues were merely representations of the gods they worshipped. Honestly, there were several statues of each deity in several places so realistically they were only conduits for worship much as the christian cross and crucifix are.

Conflicting statements? I will reiterate for you: "I said that turning the other cheek is drivel and in my opinion it is because I do not see it practiced, even here in the Alley. Conversely, the world would benefit from it if it were practiced by the majority. You are implying a disparity or hypocrisy on my part that does not exist."

There is no conflict in these statements as it is drivel to those that do not practice it and the world would be a better place if a majority did practice it. Where is the conflict in those statements? In the Alley, instead of answering my questions, most attack my questions and my point of view. I am not feeling defensive, just bored with repeating the same issues that some fail to grasp.

Had you read the entire thread, you would have noticed that my position has been rethought because of the answers I received and to be honest, I believe that you are being deliberately contrary as I have repeatedly stated that it is a segment of christians that I take issue with, not all christians so can you please stop generalizing?

As for dogging christians more than other religions, I have said repeatedly, that of all those I know of many faiths, those that are christian are the most hypocritical. If there is no difference between the followers of a religion and the religion itself, then why don't all christians practice the same beliefs since their beliefs come from the same book?

Finally, as I have repeated the answers to your repeating the same questions and I will no longer beat this to death, unless you have something more constructive to add such as answers to my questions I bid you adieu.


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Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvil©



[This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 10-09-1999).]
Saxoness
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Senior Member
since 07-18-99
Posts 1176
Texas


22 posted 10-09-1999 09:46 AM       View Profile for Saxoness   Email Saxoness   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Saxoness

Darn! I don't have time to reply right now..............but I will back! Never fear! lol

------------------
"Glory remains unaware of my neglected dwelling where alone
I sing my tearful song which has charms only for me."

-Charles Brugnot


JP
Senior Member
since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


23 posted 10-09-1999 02:58 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Whoa... how do you sleep at night? All that anger, the rage, the pointed malevolence, and the hypocratic disgust at claimed hypocracy?

How can you remove the splinter from your brother's eye with your vision clouded by the branch in your own?

Never remove a fly from your brother's forehead with an axe.

DE... take a deep breath and try to understand that the whole of your argument, the very bitterness of it's sting is simply coming from inside of you. I pray the gods of earth will ground you in peace and the gods of air will breathe fresh light into your being.

Blessed be tormented one.

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Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
JP



[This message has been edited by JP (edited 10-10-1999).]
Kelly
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since 07-03-99
Posts 153


24 posted 10-09-1999 05:02 PM       View Profile for Kelly   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kelly

/


[This message has been edited by Kelly (edited 10-09-1999).]
 
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