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Passions in Poetry

Syllable counting

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rachana.s
Member
since 09-16-99
Posts 59
madras,tamil nadu,India


50 posted 10-01-1999 03:26 AM       View Profile for rachana.s   Email rachana.s   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rachana.s

brad,

this sure is reading material for the day. thank you. I'll get back.

rachi
JTF
Member
since 08-09-99
Posts 325
France


51 posted 10-01-1999 04:21 AM       View Profile for JTF   Email JTF   Edit/Delete Message     View IP for JTF

Brad , wow !!!! .... that's a brilliant lesson ... ... It will probably take me a month to get through it though ... LOL

Something you said made me smile : "If you're a non-native English speaker you may have problems hearing the subtler stresses in English. Many of my students don't see a difference between say university and universe city ... Definitely !! ... I'm French and I could give you about a hundred other examples ... LOL

I have a question for you ... something I disagreed about with my "English teacher" ... ... Do the 3 words tears, fears and years rhyme ?
Marilyn
Member Elite
since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada


52 posted 10-03-1999 11:31 PM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

Brad...I find this very useful. Please do not stop the lessons. It is a lot to take in all at once but I will print and keep trying to figure it all out. I need these lessons and appreciate them.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


53 posted 10-04-1999 04:25 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Thanks to those who have read and are reading the above 'stuff'. Glad some of you are taking Nan's class. Even if you want to write free verse, the formal aspects of poetry (and indeed how the English language works) can help you control your language and create the poem you want to create.

Is everybody getting comfortable with the terminology yet? At the very least, you can impress friends with your erudition (or in my case, force them to gag me when I start talking about this stuff).

Remember:

iambs and trochees are mirror images.

iamb -- x /
trochee -- / x

anapests and dactyls are mirror images.

anapest -- x x /
dactyl -- / x x

spondee and pyrrhics are opposites.

spondee -- / /
pyrrhic -- x x

Let's see years, tears, and fears -- sounds like they rhyme to me. But what really counts is how you say it. I think there is plenty of variation in the language to argue it if you so choose (in English, there are no rules, only general guides). Robert Frost said 'flower' as one syllable; I say it with two. I've had debates with other teachers on the syllable count of 'orange'. And meter, while some of it is pretty set, is certainly open for discussion and differences of opinion.

It's all how it sounds to you and how well you can describe what it is you actually say.

Have fun,
Brad
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


54 posted 10-04-1999 05:45 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I love Robert Frost. Really, I do. No, I mean, really...

But I find it physically impossible to say flower as one syllable. Same with Orange (and I lived there for twenty years ).
Larry A. Tilander
Junior Member
since 10-04-1999
Posts 13
Belleville, Ontario, Canada


55 posted 10-05-1999 10:29 AM       View Profile for Larry A. Tilander   Email Larry A. Tilander   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry A. Tilander's Home Page   View IP for Larry A. Tilander

Syllable counting? You mean it doesn't come naturally? Write prose then.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


56 posted 10-05-1999 12:16 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Larry, the only things that come "naturally" are an urge to suckle and a fear of falling. Everything else is learned...
Sally S.
Senior Member
since 06-07-99
Posts 887
Ohio


57 posted 10-05-1999 01:09 PM       View Profile for Sally S.   Email Sally S.   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sally S.

I've learned that as soon as you feel you've grasped a subject, something else is added to the mix and confuses you once more!
Honestly, this is terrific! I too will have to print this out to study, study, study.....whew!!!
You know, when I began writing poetry I simply let the words flow together. If it "felt" right, I let it go. (I still do that)
I recently posted a poem in the Open Forum and was told the poem was a "good example of anapestic tetrameter".
Now, I didn't even know what that was until I read the explanation here. The poem just came together that way. (Yes, I'm brave enough to admit it...LOL) Now, I'm going to take a much more in-depth look at my work.
I just hope that in doing so, it doesn't take away from the poem. I've always let the words come out. If I start to analyze...oh man, I'm scared just thinking about it. Wish me luck....LOL
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


58 posted 11-04-1999 04:45 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Just thought I'd bring this out of the woodwork for those who are new and might be interested.

If anybody wants to continue the discussion of meter, I'll probably try to start another thread at the Philosophy forum.

Two more points: I certainly don't want to label anybody but I think it safe to say that Nan can usefully be described as a strict metrist (and there's a brand new book out that defends that point of view) while I am a loose metrist (when I write in meter). Both positions have traditions and both have valid arguments. Of course, if somebody wants to debate . . .

Brad
hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius
since 07-05-99
Posts 11105
Glen Hope, PA USA


59 posted 11-04-1999 11:22 AM       View Profile for hoot_owl_rn   Email hoot_owl_rn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit hoot_owl_rn's Home Page   View IP for hoot_owl_rn

Wow, I got in on this a bit too late...LOL. I'm going to have to print this off and take about two days to read it before I can even begin to comment, because as it stands I must have nt been doing my homework because I am totally lost. I just write, tap it out and hope it works...LOL
Munda
Member Elite
since 10-08-1999
Posts 3629
The Hague, The Netherlands


60 posted 11-07-1999 05:18 AM       View Profile for Munda   Email Munda   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Munda's Home Page   View IP for Munda

Wow ! Thanks for bringing this back out of the woodwork !
jbouder
Member Elite
since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


61 posted 12-17-1999 12:05 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

I know I am very, very late to this thread but I would appreciate any insights into a question about meter that, perhaps, was not addressed:  

How can different metrical types be choosen to help communicate a particular mood?

I've been reading Poe, lately, and have noticed his metrical genius, particularly on how he uses it to re-enforce a specific mood.  Any insights from the collective genius of Passions?

See Philosophy 101 for my posting of this question



 Jim

"If I rest, I rust."  - Martin Luther



[This message has been edited by jbouder (edited 12-17-1999).]
crosscountry83
Member
since 07-30-2009
Posts 335


62 posted 08-10-2009 10:43 PM       View Profile for crosscountry83   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for crosscountry83

I just thought this could help a lot of people although it hasn't been posted on for a decade...

*bump*  

Rileigh
 
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