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Passions in Poetry

Opinion: Bad poetry

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Red Letter
Member
since 05-24-99
Posts 92
Allentown, PA


25 posted 07-26-99 09:39 PM       View Profile for Red Letter   Email Red Letter   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red Letter

feel like I'm walking into the middle of a warzone, but what the hell. i'm always up for a good time

Okay, first off, I think I missed something - who said that they "hated" freeverse? And Baladeer, my friend, were you refering to me when you said that one poet on the forum complained that there was too much rhyming poetry on the forum? I hope not, but just in case, I was not complaining that there was too much rhyme, simply not enough freeverse. That was all. And if you read my comment further along in the same thread, you will see that I very much defended all those wonderfully talented rhyming poets, which I much admire. I just would love to see more freeverse, that's all. Didn't think that would insult anyone and if it did, please know that was the furthest intent from my mind. (After all, I have written quite a bit rhyming poetry myself - why would I venture to insult that format when I indulge myself in it at times?)

Secondly, Ladycat made a comment above: "Free verse for me is a fast and easy way of getting a thought down at the time..." Ouch. I know you didn't mean to but you did a very GREAT disservice to all of us freeverse poets out there (including yourself). Any quality freeverse should neither be "fast" nor "easy". It is IN NO WAY "COP-OUT POETRY". I don't think this is what you meant - I have read and admired much of your work, I just want to be certain that you were not misleading anyone who may not understand the concept of freeverse poetry. I don't care what anyone says or how talented a writer one is, quality freeverse is NEVER an easy task. Nor is any quality writing for that matter.

Well, I've got more to say (don't I always???) but I'll refrain. I hope all you people can work out whatever it is that's tied all yer panties in a knot and maybe hone all that fabulous energy into WRITING! LOL

(just kidding with that comment above... just in case)

DreamEvil
Member Elite
since 06-22-99
Posts 2442


26 posted 07-26-99 09:40 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Doreen,at this point, water under the bridge. Thank you for taking the time with this.
Jessica Pahre
Junior Member
since 07-22-99
Posts 12
Fort Polk, LA, USA


27 posted 07-26-99 11:17 PM       View Profile for Jessica Pahre   Email Jessica Pahre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jessica Pahre

Oh my. I've only been around for a few days, and so don't know that I'm really qualified to stick my two cents in. But having read over everything that everyone's said...well, I felt something tugging at me to pop off with my own opinion.

Poetry sings. No matter what its form, or topic, or length. We all write for different reasons, with different styles and skills, and when everything is said in done, what comes out is both personal and public. It says one thing to its creator, and another to every other person that reads it. Gleeful, funny, sad, thoughtful, wry, clever... everything that I've seen posted in the forums is something that someone put time and effort into. I've always believed it doesn't matter whether anything I write can be classified as poetry or prose. Those of you who have seen my poems in the forum -- and yes, I refer to them as poems, because that is how they feel to me, the one who wrote them -- know I'm a rabid freeformer. But that doesn't mean rhyming verse is any better or worse a form for poetry. For anyone to say 'Freeform poetry is NOT poetry' is just wrong in my mind. Just as wrong it would be to say 'Rhyming poetry is dead, get with the time, peoples'. If it sings to you, or someone who reads it, it's poetry. If it opens up that warm fuzzy glow in your chest when you read it, it's poetry. If it makes you cry, giggle, sniffle, or grin and does so in a lyrical form...it's poetry. The sentiment behind what's written is what matters. Not the form it comes in.

I guess what this all boils down to is don't knock what other people put blood, sweat and tears into. Your prose may be another man's poetry, and vice versa. And yes... this is just my opinion. If I've offended, please feel free to email me with objections. If I haven't made any sense, well... perhaps that was my ultimate goal after all. This place is maintained, with much hard work, for the enjoyment of those who come here. Enjoy it, thank those who work so hard to make it available, and let's just write!

--Jessica steps off the soapbox, scuttles back into her corner--
Darquewing
Junior Member
since 07-30-99
Posts 20


28 posted 07-30-99 03:15 PM       View Profile for Darquewing   Email Darquewing   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Darquewing's Home Page   View IP for Darquewing

This may sound really strange, but I think people need to lay off of the free-verse thing. Like all things artistic, it is merely the way the artists do their thing. As Ron said it is the content of it that matters.People do it cause they like it, and again, like an artist, really shouldn't give a **** about it what other people think of what they do and how they do it.. Not to be rude, but if you don't like something I'm doing or they way I'm doing it, I'm not gonna quit for ya'.

Also what I would like to say is...Who cares how long it takes you to write a piece? This is something I've never understood. I can tell you straight that I write fast...I think fast. So what if someone likes free verse because they can put ideas down faster. I write rhyming and I still do it faster than most people write anyway.

And lastly Dream Evil, people do free verse cause they like doing it...love it or leave it.


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KEEP THE DARQUENESS ALIVE!
Darquewing
Red Letter
Member
since 05-24-99
Posts 92
Allentown, PA


29 posted 07-30-99 07:31 PM       View Profile for Red Letter   Email Red Letter   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red Letter

"I can tell you straight that I write fast...I think fast. So what if someone likes free verse because they can put ideas down faster."

Oh my my my my my my.... No offense to you, my friend, but I couldn't disagree with you more. The POINT of freeverse is not because it can be written FASTER. (I can not even begin to explain the pain in my heart when I read that...) Just because you don't have to think of a good rhyme doesn't mean you don't have to THINK. I promise you, sir, that if you wrote out your thoughts, left it alone for a while, went back and line by line decided how each could be written more eloquently, with more imagery, more imaginitively, more creatively - not only would you be writing higher quality poetry but you would find you will be much more pleased with your work. The more time you put into it, the more personal it becomes. I say this because I, too, think fast. Hell, I talk fast too (you'll be finding that out soon enough in DC, eh? hehehe) - and I also used to write "fast"... I'd write a poem in 5 minutes, be pleased with myself for being so damn creative and slap that sucker on a webpage. Well, the more I wrote, the better I got - and the better I got, the more I began to strive for perfection in my writing. I look back today on that 5-minute poetry (I've been writing for a year now, so this isn't so long ago), I can't believe how much BETTER I've become. No, I'm not an accomplished poet, not by a long stretch but I'm pretty proud of the strides I've made. I've got a far more to learn as well but I'm still improving and that makes me feel even better about my work. What's my point? (I swear, I actually do have one) That it was by taking my time with my work that I became better at freeverse. Please don't take this as an insult but I can TELL when a poet hasn't taken that much time with their work. IT SHOWS and others can tell as well...

Anyway, I just really felt the need to respond and I do hope you do not take any offense at what I said - but I don't want others to misconstrue what freeverse is all about. Like I said above, it is not COP-OUT POETRY. By no means - in fact, it takes the same amount of talent, creativity and work as any other QUALITY piece of writing, whether it rhymes or not.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


30 posted 07-30-99 08:14 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Red, the time and care - and devotion - that you apply to your work gives you at least five years experience, not just one. I first saw your poetry around December (even before you submitted to Passions), and I thought it was darn good. But what you're writing today is almost in a different league. You have grown by leaps and bounds and, right now, I see no end in sight - every poem gets just a bit better than the last.

They say "Practise make perfect." Nope! Practise only makes you old. Practise and a burning desire to improve are what makes for perfection!

Oh, and as I've said in these forums before, good free verse is much, much more difficult than more structured poetry. It's like building a magnificent cathedral - without any floor plans.
Darquewing
Junior Member
since 07-30-99
Posts 20


31 posted 07-30-99 08:28 PM       View Profile for Darquewing   Email Darquewing   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Darquewing's Home Page   View IP for Darquewing

I've been writing and painting since I was six. That was fourteen years ago. In my time I have found that the more you fiddle with anything the less it ends up looking like what you wanted it to be. I understand that many time it will look prettier end the end...but you have to make sure not to lose any of the feeling of it.

It works best to say that when you paint, the more you mix the paints tha more they turn into a brown nasty color. I feel tha same about writing. I usually leave it alone after I do it(except for typo's and really bad grammar) I would rather have what I meant, completely raw, no refining it into what people might like. Same as I paint. I can also take my time. I may never replace a pen or paint stroke, but it may take an hour to put that first letter or color down. And those many a times are the best, then again... I may have spent a lot of time on something fruitless.


Anyhow, I ramble, the idea is that nothing is ever really better than the next. In different eyes do different things appear beautiful. I look for intensity, pure unadulterated power. To me, refinement can be a hassle and a bore. For why spend time on something I already did when I can go on to something new?
Open-mindedness is everything, though. For wiht out it, art in general would turn stale and old. Let everyone see things as they may and enjoy what they can as best they can...

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KEEP THE DARQUENESS ALIVE!
Darquewing
Red Letter
Member
since 05-24-99
Posts 92
Allentown, PA


32 posted 07-30-99 09:16 PM       View Profile for Red Letter   Email Red Letter   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red Letter

Wow, thanks Ron - because I admire you and your work as much as I do, your comment means more to me then you probably realize.

Darquewing - I suppose everyone has their own style and would never slight a person for how they write. I, personally, don't feel that I am losing the 'genuineness' of my writing by revising (on the contrary, most of my work reads pretty much like an open diary). But your point is well taken. I can appreciate your opinion and do hope you can appreciate mine as well...

Thanks for the comment...
JP
Senior Member
since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


33 posted 08-04-99 01:59 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Why am I always the last to get in on these things?

DreamEvil, I tried to talk to you and you shut me out, just has you seem to do with anyone who disagrees with you. Such is your loss, for the ideas of others are what growth is made of.

I've read this whole discussion thread and am truly amazed. I've spent my life seeing conflict in this world: Black vs. white, right vs. left, straight vs. gay.... now it's free verse vs. rhyme. What a waste of energy, no wonder humankind has groveled in this stinking pit for so long and not evolved into our glorious potential.

Poetry, prose, freeverse, whatever you call it is a gift of beauty and joy. Our darkest thoughts and brightest hopes conveyed in elegant phrase and rhyme... why sully this gift with pathetic bickering?

Ars longa, vita brevis
JP
DreamEvil
Member Elite
since 06-22-99
Posts 2442


34 posted 08-04-99 02:16 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Perhaps all of the people in the forum should look at their own actions to determine if they practice what they preach.

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Shall I indulge in flights of fancy hampered by clipped wings?
DreamEvilŠ


TheGreenPolarBear
Junior Member
since 05-23-99
Posts 41
Kansas


35 posted 08-04-99 02:48 PM       View Profile for TheGreenPolarBear   Email TheGreenPolarBear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit TheGreenPolarBear's Home Page   View IP for TheGreenPolarBear

Looks like my post I just made would've fit in better here. Ah well, that's what happens when I read in a random order determined by my own whims. And as long as I'm here, I'll say that I do agree with Darquewing, that's the main reason I don't always heavily revise. I'm not saying I NEVER revise, but ever since I've started reading more poetry by poets like Kerouac, I feel like the more I revise, the more I lose the original emotions and ideas I was trying to get across. So, I guess that's just a repeat of what I already said, but you'll all survive. *grins*

The Green Polar Bear

P.S. See JP, you're not the last one this time.
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