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Passions in Poetry

Mortar and Pestilence IV

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Local Parasite
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since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


0 posted 02-10-2003 01:39 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to Submit your Poem to Passions   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

Good night, my Lamb and Serpent true
I've learned how not to think of You
That thoughts in You are wasted
The truth is as I always knew
And as I've always tasted

I know this world You've set for me
I've counted it by what I see
And what I hear and touch
But what I think could never be
Convincing, quite as much

And with the pens and papers seen
We scribe Your thoughts, and swipe them clean
By truth in senses spoken
Decide that You had never been
That faith in You is broken

Disgusting, how Your judgement rings
Of justice drawn to shameless things
Composed beneath Your eye
That You could dare to grant us wings
And damn us, should we fly

So monstrous is Your judging hand
That sends this stench upon the land
Of pestilence and tar
We crave to be not as You planned
But as we really are

The truth that all Your mortars made
Leaves bathing minds in thoughts forbade
Of sinful acts and pleasures
For faith in You has been betrayed
By wise and tactile measures

I'll grant You not the sacrifice
Of wisdom, as a better price
Is faith for what is true
The truth shall come, by our device
And not by that of You.

[This message has been edited by Local Parasite (02-10-2003 03:49 PM).]

© Copyright 2003 Brian James Lee - All Rights Reserved
Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


1 posted 02-10-2003 02:54 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

Good night, my Lamb and Serpent true
I've learned how not to think of You
That thoughts in You are wasted
The truth is as I always knew
And as I've always tasted

I know this world You've set for me
I've counted it by what I see
And what I hear and touch
But what I think could never be
Convincing, quite as much

And with the pens and papers seen
We scribe Your thoughts, and swipe them clean
By truth in senses spoken
Decide that You had never been
That faith in You is broken

Disgusting, how Your judgement rings
Of justice drawn to shameless things
Composed beneath Your eye
That You could dare to grant us wings
And damn us, should we fly
=================================
I'll grant you not the sacrifice
Of wisdom, as a better price
Is faith for what is true
The truth shall come, by our device
And not by that of You.
===================================
I'll tell ya true..it was real hard to single out verses in this...each one was as impressive as the next....wisdom set to rhymes divine.
I was thinking while reading this how many interpretations could apply to this, the biblical influence being one...but another one that came to mind for me was how timely this piece is in light of the threat of war becoming more frightening every day. The ones in power believeing they hold the truths for all of us...
As always your work leaves me wanting more...
will have to go back and reread some of your previous pieces of this series.
Cant think of a better way to spend me lunch break
PoetryIsLife
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since 10-27-2001
Posts 4115
...in my boxers...


2 posted 02-10-2003 07:14 PM       View Profile for PoetryIsLife   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PoetryIsLife

Damn. There's a worldveiw if I ever saw one. I can't say that I've read a better poetic display of what one feels in relationship to faith.

Was this inspired by "Beyond Good and Evil"?

"Decide that You had never been
That faith in You is broken"

These two lines really stood out to me. They seem to be the summation of your argument/article here.

"my Lamb and Serpent true"

Do you include the symbolic images of good and evil here, further impressing upon us you see neither as ultimately true?

"Disgusting, how Your judgement rings
Of justice drawn to shameless things"

I wasn't sure what you meant by the last line.... his judgement disgusting, because it's drawn to shameless thing... what are to you the shameless things?

"Composed beneath Your eye"

Are you referring to judging us for doing the things which do not shame us?

"That You could dare to grant us wings
And damn us, should we fly"

These two lines are beautiful (read very beautiful), but I'm not sure, theologically what you are saying. Here, are you referring to our imaginations, impulses, our mind, which can naturally does that which is judged wrong by God?

This is inferring that it was His choice for those impulses to be there, right? The Christian reply would be that it wasn't his will that sin come into/onto us, hence the Crucifiction/Ressurection/Salvation aspect of Christianity, correct? Or would you see it differently?

"The truth shall come, by our device
And not by that of You."

GREAT lines here.   In this, you are saying that we/you find the truth by/in/for ourselves, and do not need a "absolute standard", such as the holy text (i.e. the Bible, Torrah, etc), as other religions seem to feel?


While I don't agree with what you've come to see as truth (for myself), I respect that you've seen it as truth for yourself, and have an opinion for yourself, and hence that your language isn't "bahhhh."

Great poem, by the way.   Oh dear, 666 in my post count.... we should worry.

~Titus


Es ist gut, daß das Leben die Toten studieren sollte.

[This message has been edited by PoetryIsLife (02-10-2003 07:16 PM).]

PoetryIsLife
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...in my boxers...


3 posted 02-10-2003 07:18 PM       View Profile for PoetryIsLife   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PoetryIsLife

By the way, if this is about war, then, damn, I was bloody off. It seemed to have parts that could be about war, but ultimately, it seemed overwhelmingly spiritually inclined.

~Titus
Child of the Stars
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4 posted 02-11-2003 10:11 AM       View Profile for Child of the Stars   Email Child of the Stars   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Child of the Stars

Omg!

Disgusting, how Your judgement rings
Of justice drawn to shameless things
Composed beneath Your eye
That You could dare to grant us wings
And damn us, should we fly

I could not get over those last two lines. I think they're going to be stuck with me for a while...so, do tell, not just about faith, is it? That's my 'shallow' interpretation, but I should probably be off to figure out the rest of the series before I decide.

  ~Carly

empty-armed
and half a soul to go
                     -el sol
                        --Zwan

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


5 posted 02-11-2003 03:24 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

The truth is as I always knew
And as I've always tasted

I know this world You've set for me
I've counted it by what I see
And what I hear and touch
But what I think could never be
Convincing, quite as much

And with the pens and papers seen
We scribe Your thoughts, and swipe them clean
By truth in senses spoken
Decide that You had never been
That faith in You is broken

Disgusting, how Your judgement rings
Of justice drawn to shameless things
Composed beneath Your eye
That You could dare to grant us wings
And damn us, should we fly

===================================
this gets more impressive every time I read it....

The truth is as I always knew
And as I've always tasted


I know this world You've set for me
I've counted it by what I see
And what I hear and touch
But what I think could never be
Convincing, quite as much


And with the pens and papers seen
We scribe Your thoughts, and swipe them clean


Disgusting, how Your judgement rings
Of justice drawn to shameless things
Composed beneath Your eye


That You could dare to grant us wings
And damn us, should we fly



Yeah... YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!
PoetryIsLife
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since 10-27-2001
Posts 4115
...in my boxers...


6 posted 02-14-2003 05:56 PM       View Profile for PoetryIsLife   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PoetryIsLife




Es ist gut, daß das Leben die Toten studieren sollte.

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


7 posted 02-14-2003 09:34 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

That You could dare to grant us wings
And damn us, should we fly

===============================

thy adoring public awaits thee ...
dont keep the moth waiting

      
" ... and I never saw blue like that before."

Local Parasite
Deputy Moderator 10 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


8 posted 02-14-2003 10:18 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

Woohoo!  7 replies, and just three of them are by JM.     And hey, 3 by titus.  Which means 3 people read my poem.  

My adoring public of 3 whole people, eh?  I usually wait for more responses before including a thank you message.  Sorry for the lateness, JM.

Thank you all for your responses... I didn't write this specifically about the war, but I have been reading a lot about that lately, as well as reading Saint Augustine's "Confessions," which raises a lot of questions about faith.  

I don't find Augustine's argument on knowledge of the non-material very convincing, so this entry into Mortar and Pestilence (which goes along with the theme of the series, that God's own creation denies His existence) discusses how the material contradicts the divine, and how the senses we have learned to trust should be considered more reliable than the superstitions we inherit.

I'm trying to make this series as timeless as possible and for this reason I don't intentionally refer to any current events...

Oh and JM... thank you so much for taking the time to read the whole series front to back.  You know, that absolutely made my day on a day where I really needed that kind of attention.  You're a real doll.  

Titus, much of your interpretation was on, some of it was off, but I think if you read my poem a second time keeping in mind the main focus of it (that God's creation disproves him), you'll be able to understand me more clearly.

Carly, your shallow interpretation is right on.  Are you calling me a shallow poet?     I spent a lot of time toying with those lines you and JM seem so fond of, trying to get them just right.  It's a simple analogy I've used before in discussions of the free will argument.  I've often asked why God allows His creation the capacity to sin if He punishes them for sinning, and the response has usually been, "he wants people to have free will."

Capacity to do everything isn't necessary for free will though... we don't have the capacity to fly, for example, but that doesn't make our free will any less present.  Giving us the capacity to sin and then damning us for it, is the same as giving us the capacity to fly, and then damning us for it.  That's what those lines are speaking of.

Much love to all 3 of you,

Parasite

"Faith" means the will to avoid knowing what is true.
~ Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


9 posted 02-14-2003 10:46 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

Honeychild..any time you need some attention of any kind...send the moth a smoke signal...
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