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Bush: The Brain-free Zone
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Bush: The Brain-free Zone |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road 
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Bush: The brain-free zone His speeches make us moan His nose is red His mind is dead His wits are out on loan He's not a curious man Paint by numbers is his plan He's just a hick He makes us sick Now the blood will hit the fan He talks of threat and war Oh how we need you Gore He can't see straight Leaves us to our fate His hawks cry out for more So what can we all do to oppose this frightful crew? We must lend a hand And on the street demand No war for me and you [This message has been edited by allan (01-30-2003 04:23 AM).] |
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| © Copyright 2003 Allan Tierney - All Rights Reserved | |||
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
As the censor of this forum has decided to edit my poem above I have re-edited the offending line from something that rhymes with [edited by moderator] to the word 'blood'. I hope no one will have been traumatised and be having sleepless nights over having had the ghastly experience of being exposed to the word that rhymes with [edited by moderator]. My-0oh-my...  [This message has been edited by Denise (01-30-2003 10:17 AM).] |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Allan, A simple review of the guidelines will inform you of what is and is not acceptable in the public forums, as I had suggested to you in my email earlier this week, thereby eliminating the need for this "censor" to have to touch your work. If you don't wish to familiarize yourself with the guidelines, and/or follow the guidelines, then you have to deal with moderator editing (at the least), and further action for continued infractions. Denise |
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SPIRIT Senior Member
since 2002-12-29
Posts 1745California Desert |
In my head the wheels are turning. You gotta be a sixties child  And your still smokin' ********* After all these years. |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
Denise, I wasn't aware that the word I used was so rare and heinious - sorry about that. I will have to be more careful here at Passions if I continue to post at all. Most of my time is spent in other sites that fully embrace the idea that a few raw words never did anyone any harm. I am also of this opinion. I don't know who you think you are trying to cocoon exactly. Don't worry your threats have been heard - loud and clear I will attempt to be a good little boy in future... |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
Yes SPIRIT, thank you - '17 in '67 and still smokin' and in more ways than one! (watch out for those asterisks - even that may not be allowed here! )((((No Blood for Oil)))) [This message has been edited by allan (01-30-2003 06:56 PM).] |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Allan, There are forums, right here at Passions, where you can express yourself using raw language that can be found under the Mature Content tab at the top of the screen, that is password protected. The Corner Pub is one of the public forums, accessible to all, where the guidelines for language usage is more restrictive. What Ron is "protecting" (respecting is a better choice of words) here at Passions is the right of parents to decide to what they want their underage children exposed. That's not your decision nor my decision. Your idea of what is acceptable may not necessarily be considered acceptable by a vast segment of the people who visit here. By keeping the public forums "family-oriented", and by providing a group of password protected forums for "mature" topics and language, a parent's rights are respected while at the same time offering options for those who wish to express themselves beyond the restrictions in place in the public forums: A place for everyone. As this is Ron's home and he pays all the bills, and we are his guests, we should be more than willing to abide by the few parameters that he has set. Threats have nothing to do with it. If someone is unhappy with the rules, they go elsewhere, usually voluntarily. There have been very few who have left involuntarily over the past four years. There is a place for everyone and every style and type of writing here. Explore a bit, and I'm sure you will find your niche, for your "raw" poetry as well as for your tamer pieces. As for this poem, I'm not into angry 'bashing' type poetry, political or otherwise. If this angry bashing were directed toward a private citizen, its content would exceed Passions' guidelines. Since Bush is a public figure, he is considered 'fair game'. It comes with the territory, I suppose. It's just not my cup of tea. I'd much rather read a piece of political dissent that doesn't resort to insults and name calling. |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
Denise, thank you, I take your points on board. As far as the style and content of this piece I feel compelled on this occasion to provide some balance to the, in my view, sycophantic adoration of a war-mongerer. This subject and person makes me extremely angry and this is reflected in the piece. People can readily discount that anger if they wish and call it merely the rantings of a hate-filled anti-American. They would be wrong however - I am far from filled with hate and find Americans in general excellent people.) Poets and any other visitors to this forum will have strong views on various subjects and I hope they will express those views strongly. There have been times in the past when Right Wingers seemed to have had a monopoly on loud ranting and raving. This is not so. It is not -ONLY- the devil who has the best tunes! Having said all that I will do my very best to hold my horses and check for any no-no's in the rough old anglo-saxon word department in the future! [This message has been edited by allan (01-31-2003 08:12 AM).] |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Allan, Thank you, I appreciate your understanding and cooperation. Strong and passionate views, expressed through poetry, are something to be admired. I can understand the passion generated by feeling strongly about something, and I enjoy reading such pieces. What I think can ruin such pieces is bashing and name calling. I think with a bit more effort poets can get their views across more effectively without resorting to, what seems to me, temper tantrums, ala Amiri Baraka. I think a writer has to consider his/her objective when writing...do we want to reach people, perhaps persuade them to our point of view through a reasoned presentation, or do we merely want to vent our anger and frustration, thereby reaching only those of like mind, and turning everyone else off because they can't see past the ranting? Concerning what you consider a sycophantic adoration of a war-mongerer, I see more as admiration for strong and principled leadership by a majority of Americans after eight long years where those attributes were sorely lacking. Yes, I've seen "raunchy" from the right as well as from the left. Neither is profitable as far as the advancement of their respective "causes" is concerned. One thing that really bothers me is when someone makes a statement such as "No Blood for Oil" with no substantiation for the statement, assuming that it is a given that that is the reason if/when we go to war. The same statements were thrown about last year, as if 9/11 weren't reason enough for going to war, and even more so this year, as if 12 years of Saddam thumbing his nose at the world by his non-compliance with the UN resolutions following Desert Storm never happened. If you or anyone else believes that oil is the reason, I'd like to see the evidence upon which you base that belief. |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
Denise, thanks for your comments. "One thing that really bothers me is when someone makes a statement such as "No Blood for Oil" with no substantiation for the statement, assuming that it is a given that that is the reason if/when we go to war." Denise there are many many sources to read on this. Only a few nights ago I watched an interview with someone well aquainted with the oil business, Sheik Yamani, oil minister for Saudi Arabia from 1962 to 1986, and he was completely unequivocal on this. With good humour, let it be said, he was quite clear that this was obvious to anyone close to this subject. But we don't need to rely on his word. As I say, there are many sources - the one I respect most myself is Noam Chomsky and I include a short section of an interview with him: ~~~~~~~~~ Anthony DiMaggio: I've always believed that the Bush Administration's proposed war on Iraq was for two main reasons: to secure the last oil reserves in the Middle East that are not under U.S. control, and to divert Americans' attention from the policies that Bush is conducting at home against the common worker. In your opinion, how much of the war on Iraq has to do with securing Iraqi oil reserves and how much has to do with diverting American’s attention from the Bush Administration's war on the American people? Is one more of a factor than the other? Noam Chomsky: It’s quite widely assumed, right within the mainstream, that these are the two primary reasons. I agree. Regaining control over Iraq’s oil resources (not access, but control; a very different matter) is longstanding. 9/11 provided a pretext for the resort to force, not only by the US: also Russia, China, Indonesia, Israel, many others. And the need to divert the attention of the population from what is being done to them accounts for the timing. [It] worked brilliantly in the congressional elections, and by the next presidential elections, it’ll be necessary to have a victory and on to the next campaign. Do you believe the Gulf War was primarily to secure American access to Kuwaiti oil? Did it also have to do with teaching Saddam a lesson for his aggressive behavior with Kuwait? Do you have any insight into which factor was more of a determinant for the Bush Administration? I think the main reason for the first Gulf War was what’s called “credibility”: Saddam had defied orders; no one can get away with that. Ask any Mafia Don and you’ll get the explanation. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14701 ~~~~~~~~~ "Yes, I've seen "raunchy" from the right as well as from the left. Neither is profitable as far as the advancement of their respective "causes" is concerned." I presume when you say this in regard to poems posted in Passions you would say it in even stronger terms regarding the statements of politicians. I have noticed no particular balanced language from Bush on this subject over the years, in fact he seems quite content to run off at the mouth about Saddam, calling him many insulting names. I am not saying I am a fan of Saddam Hussein, far from it, I am only pointing out that your words should surely hold true for politicians too. This also holds true for your words: "What I think can ruin such pieces is bashing and name calling. I think with a bit more effort poets can get their views across more effectively without resorting to, what seems to me, temper tantrums..." and "do we want to reach people, perhaps persuade them to our point of view through a reasoned presentation, or do we merely want to vent our anger and frustration, thereby reaching only those of like mind, and turning everyone else off because they can't see past the ranting?" I would cordially invite you to inspect the words of Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush and the legions of other right-wing oil-sponsered hawks waiting, verbal club always at the ready who stand behind them. Do their words pass your test of probity, fairness and balance? Denise, during my searches on the web I found one site of particular interest. It has a great deal of detail on the history of Iraq and the political and economic issues surrounding it. It is titled simply 'Iraq': http://tacitconsent.freehomepage.com/iraq.html [This message has been edited by allan (02-04-2003 10:13 AM).] |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Allan, I've read Mr. Chomsky's opinions before. I think his statement below says a lot. These are assumptions made, not evidence of fact. quote: My dislike of bashing and hate filled words does extend across the board. I don't think it is ever profitable in any situation. We see it far too often from all sides in the political world. Thanks for the link. I've gone through it briefly and will check it out further. |
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SPIRIT Senior Member
since 2002-12-29
Posts 1745California Desert |
Firstly let me say I am not a debater, never have been, never will be nor do I want to be. I can only talk for myself, I was raised in war-torn England, my uncle at 22 was an Ace Pilot in the R.A.F and medalled and in command, so you must realize that my point of view about the fight for freedom is very different from yours, and that is what makes us so great is that we are entitled to these differences of opinions. What I find distasteful is your dragging us all in with your words "Bush: The brain-free zone His speeches make us moan His nose is red His mind is dead His wits are out on loan He's not a curious man Paint by numbers is his plan He's just a hick He makes us sick Now the blood will hit the fan" His speeches do not make me moan, I would not care if his nose was sky-blue pink and polka dotted, he is the President of this magnificent country and for that he has my utmost respect. He does not make me sick, please, I ask you do not include me in your tirades, I never gave you that right. I respect your rights to your opinion although 'throwing stones' in a somewhat childish fashion as you have would not have me respecting you as a man. I am nonetheless respectfully - SPIRIT |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
Thank you SPIRIT. When I say 'we' I mean myself, my friends and most decent minded individuals of integrity I know. Bush makes us angry, fearful, disgusted, sad, frustrated, ashamed and also very, very sick. These are our feelings and the feelings of most non-Americans imho. We wont be seeing eye to eye on this I fear. For us there is one man who is a supreme threat to the world and his name is George W. Bush. We have opposite viewpoints on this man that's clear. In spite of that I wish you all the best.  |
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passing shadows Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577displaced |
giggling at Spirit's first reply...I got tickled... yaknow, this whole thing is stupid and childish...not worth all the words that have been written and the time it took to write them. All I want to say is that if it was up to me, you would be banned from ever stepping foot in this website again, just for being spooky. Of course, I work in security and we are trained to recognize risks, threats, people with strongly over-stated opinions that seem to overtake their lives, and just your average-everyday-pain-in-the-neck trouble-makers. But it's not up to me and you are allowed here like anyone else and if other sites suit you better, or if you are not happy with the type of responses you are getting, you can leave any time. You have a choice...that's what America is about. I see you are "on the road"...a road well travelled I'm sure...but never leading to a destination. |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
passing shadows, are you aware just how very patronising you are? Your tone is pathetic and deserves no response whatsoever. |
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passing shadows Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577displaced |
From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary: One entry found for patronize. (and please note the spelling; in case you ever need to use the word again) Main Entry: pa·tron·ize Pronunciation: 'pA-tr&-"nIz, 'pa- Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): -ized; -iz·ing Date: 1589 1 : to act as patron of : provide aid or support for 2 : to adopt an air of condescension toward : treat haughtily or coolly 3 : to be a frequent or regular customer or client of Yes, I am fully aware of how patronizing I am, and I am extremely proud of it. Thank you for your response. |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
passing shadows, in case YOU ever require to learn anything about the English speaking world outside of the United States we spell patronise the original way. Amazing, it takes a certain kind of arrogant fool to be patronising and dimwitted at the SAME time. Patronise (from Cambridge International Dictionary of English) patronize, British and Australian usually -ise verb [T] To speak to or behave towards (someone) as if they are stupid or unimportant Stop patronising me - I understand the play as well as you do. She was always patronizing the locals who were all very intelligent and hard-working. patronizing, British and Australian usually -ising adjective It's that patronizing tone of hers that I can't bear. He's sometimes very patronizing. |
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passing shadows Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577displaced |
I do not understand how you can bash the United States, its people, and its President, and not expect some conflict in return. I am patronizing/patronising, my tone is pathetic. I love America, the country that I was born in, live in, and will die in. Even if it were just one man making the decision (which it is not), I would respect that and stand behind it. Not to say that I agree with all of America's current policies or decisions in the past, but nonetheless, it is my country and if it were attacked or came under the threat of attack, I would fight for it any day. If someone threatens to destroy me, or any of the people that I have a job to protect, and if they have the means to carry out the threat, I would use deadly force to prevent that if I had to, and I'm not sure that I would feel any remorse for taking a human life in order to save my own or the hundreds/thousands/millions of others in danger. That is between me and God, and you have no right to judge, if you are speaking for Christianity. None of "us" want war, but I don't think "we" would have any regret for doing what we are forced to do in order to protect our country and our people. |
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SPIRIT Senior Member
since 2002-12-29
Posts 1745California Desert |
Very well said, I totally agree and wish that I had the ability to come back as well as you do against this man's tirades. He more or less insinuated that I was ignorant and blind in one of his other posts that I responded to, I must admit I would far rather be considered ignorant and blind than to be tarred with the same brush as him. Very well said indeed. |
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Yu Lan Senior Member
since 2000-04-13
Posts 1462New Zealand |
Hmm.. getting a bit personal there I think Allan. I'm not a fan of Bush's either, but what has a 'red nose' got to do with anything except the rhyme? I think the fact that you rhymes this poem took away a lot of the impact, because a lot of the 'insults' you fling at him, are petty and irrelevant, and probably not even correct, and are simply continuing the rhyme scheme.. I've read a lot of your poems, and really enjoy them, but these ones are not as fine tuned as your others, and appear to be written in hatred instead of with skill. Just a thought. -Lynne Bless your cotten sockies, you poetic maniacs. ^_^ |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
passing shadows, naturally I will have to contend with criticism, that goes with the territory. I am afraid you will have to put up with the fact that I won't roll over when I read it and start to purr. Your attitude of what appears quite a bizarre fear on behalf of the most powerful nation in the world seems quite typical of many Americans even before Sep 11. Is this why US governments have felt the need to send out their undercover operatives to so many nations around the world and particularly in South America to undermine them. Isn't this a little like an elephant being scared to death of mice and squashing them in a panic. Your attitude of "My country right or wrong" is one of the main reasons we fear America. Citizens here tend to think things through independently and decide what might be best for all concerned rather than slavishly and jingoistically hold only to what is in their own selfish interests. It seems to me you are dangerously mimicking the attitude of the German people in WWII. What do you say? |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
You are quite right Lynne, this isn't one of my "best". The red-nose thing WAS just a rhyme thing. You can't hit the target with everything, how I wish! Still, I stand by most of what it says except I could have said it a lot better - it's a bit too rough and ragged this one and could have been a helluva lot better! I have tried to patch it up here and there but it still needs work - what do you think....? Bush: The brain-free zone His speeches make us moan His brain needs fed His mind is dead His wits are out on loan This is not a curious man Paint by numbers is his plan He something of a hick He makes us pretty sick Now the blood will hit the fan He talks of threat and war Oh how we need you Gore He can't see straight Will leave us at Hell's gate His Hawks cry out for more So what can we all do to oppose this frightful crew? We must lend a hand And on the street demand No War for me and you! [This message has been edited by allan (02-21-2003 07:49 PM).] |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
Enjoyed the read |
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A. L. Becker Member
since 2002-09-06
Posts 167San Francisco, California |
dear people: I really enjoyed sifting through the above banter, even if i didn't especially agree with the sentiment of allan's poem. allan, it's interesting that you admire the communist, noam chomsky. i wonder how he feels about the way the communist world "sen[t] out their undercover operatives to so many nations around the world and particularly in South America." i would guess that he doesn't have much of a problem with that. Spirit's post made me think. In 1940, Spirit's uncle and his country stood alone against the greatest threat the world had ever known. Even my own country would not join them to oppose Hitler. Churchill and the brave people of Britain stood firm against the Nazis until their allies finally changed their mind (note that the US and USSR joined Britain only after being attacked themselves!). So i don't really worry that today's Germany and France are reluctant to back us. Great Britain is an example from history of how one nation can lead until the rest of the world has mustered the guts to follow. "Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
A. L. Becker There may be quite a few dissenting British voices you are overlooking. |
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SPIRIT Senior Member
since 2002-12-29
Posts 1745California Desert |
Wherever there is controversy there will be dissent. At least in this country we can have our say and not 'lose our heads' (figuratively speaking. |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
Spirit, Strangely enough we can in this country too. |
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passing shadows Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577displaced |
Crazy Eddie, I'm not sure what country you are from but I'm assuming it's not America. I read your comment back to my comment in the post "The Bush-Pig's Shame" and I had a feeling you are not American. Shame you can't write where you are from there like the rest of us in our location area under our user names... |
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passing shadows Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577displaced |
allan, my involvement here is not to speak on behalf of my country, peace, or war. I speak against your writings, which I find critical, distasteful, and extremely hateful. I never took debate class and have not been educated about all of the things that have happened in history of the American Government, or World History and Politics. I know what I know today. There has always been conflict and war. There is little possibility for world peace, a thing everyone wishes for but will never obtain. I do know that much. Dreams are nice; reality sucks. As far as being selfish, (shrugging shoulders) I don't know. All leaders that make it to the top and stay there most certainly do have the needs of others in mind, as well as their own, and usually do what's best for all. I have faith that America will continue the lead. And as far as the elephant and mouse theme, I considered that but don't know enough to make a statement that would be true. I do know that any powerful "person" should keep a guard up at all times...sleep with one eye open (so to speak)...a protection of interest, to predict and prevent "someone", who feels like things would be better if they were in power, sneaking up from behind to kill them in their sleep. |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
Passing Shadows Why is my country of origin a factor, is my opinion any less valid because I’m British (which I am), French or American? I can understand that it might be different, guided as it is by differing perspectives but it doesn’t make me automatically wrong and all Americans automatically right or vice versa. |
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fractal007 Senior Member
since 2000-06-01
Posts 1958 |
An interesting satirical poem. However, I think you might like to avoid poetry that has such an *obvious* political agenda. You will sound much more objective in your writing if you try not to include such things. Nonetheless, it did come off well as a satire. "If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh" |
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fractal007 Senior Member
since 2000-06-01
Posts 1958 |
"passing shadows, in case YOU ever require to learn anything about the English speaking world outside of the United States we spell patronise the original way." Also, perhaps you might improve your own grammar. I'm no expert, but I know an awkward sentence when I see one. Passing Shadows: I admire your dedication and patriotism. IMHO, a little open mindedness won't hurt any either. I am Canadian and there are some things my country has done that I do not quite appreciate either. However, like you, I love my country and I thank my God for allowing me to be born in it rather than elsewhere.(I am not bashing any other nations by saying this) But this is just humble advice. Keep up the interesting debate, both of u and others. It's quite stimulating. "If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh" |
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SPIRIT Senior Member
since 2002-12-29
Posts 1745California Desert |
Actually all we ever did was open this up for Allan to have more say, so I believe we, those of us who responded, have him on an adrenalin high and he's a happy hippie, Crazy Eddie I also am British although I live in the States my family lives in Britain. This country has been enormously good to me, I appreciate it and I may not agree with all policies and decisions made but I am behind it and its ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE leaders 150%. |
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passing shadows Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577displaced |
this has taken far too much of my time; selfish, maybe, but I've learned and I've spoken...a never-ending debate that can never be won, here or anywhere in the world. |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
It is fairly clear that many Americans are unaware of the way they are being seen by the population of Britain and other countries at the moment. After September 11 2001 there was an outpouring of sympathy and support for the United States. That situation no doubt still exists toward most of the pepole of America but it has TOTALLY reversed as far as Bush and his government is concerned, particularly in respective of the major protagonists, Rumsfeld, Perle, Cheney, Powell and Bush. Powell we still would probably give the benefit of the doubt as he does seem to be an eminently decent man no matter part he is forced to act just now. Most of the population of Europe finds the American governments behaviour at the moment irresponsible to say the least. We also deeply suspect their motives as being for America's own selfish national interests no matter if it puts the rest of the world at risk. We see it as a mirror of the earlier decision of Bush and co. not to sign the Kyoto Protocol because it was more important, in Bush's words more or less, to preserve American jobs than the future of the world's populations and wildlife species. We demand our views be taken into consideration if our future is on the line. We certainly do not find the prospect of George W Bush deciding our fate, whether we like it or not, appetising in the least. Tonight on our TV screen we saw a long debate on our second largest network on American foreign policy which included 50 Americans flown in from St Louis. The programme was called 'America on Trial' and the charge being discussed was: "America's strike-first foreign policy is thinly disguised imperialism, which threatens to fuel another arms race, spawn a new generation of terrorists and destroy international relations." 250 Uk citizens representing a broad cross-section of the population was assembled for the programme by a polling organisation (NOP) and they had tovote on the charge after listening to eminent witnesses on behalf of both the prosecution and defence. One of the two men conducting the defence was Richard Perle. The vote after the 75 minute programme was: Yes, charge proven beyond doubt: 56% No, charge not proven: 44% The final comment was by the host, Jon Snow, was: "So, our audience having heard the arguments for and against think that America's strike-first policy is a mask for imperialism that threatens to destroy international relations and make the world a more dangerous place." I know it is convenient for Americans to seek to rubbish campaigners for peace but we have the right to free expression all across Europe and we do desire to make our perfectly respectable views known. As far as the Second World War goes which seems to come up time and again - it was the British who stood up to Hitler for years before the US came in because it was attacked. The US didn't come in before that and if Pearl Harbour had never happened the US may well have continued to sit on its hands. |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
A. L. Becker - If Noam Chomsky was ever asked the question "are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party" he could in all honesty say "No". By his own statement he has called himself a "Libertarian Anarchist". I'm sure to you that is equally bad. I suggest you read him rather than make false accusations against him. |
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passing shadows Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577displaced |
allan, I keep learning things and I am trying not to comment on your one-sided writings, while I can see both sides... ALL of our futures are on the line every day no matter who is making the decisions. You really believe you are the master of your own destiny? I could go out to the store tonight and get hit head-on by an 18-wheeler. My future is on the line every day, especially in my line of work. Russia could decide to blow ALL OF US apart. A lot of things COULD happen to anyone, anywhere, anytime. So why do futures of the people in your country matter any more than anyone else's futures? And how are you so sure that "your" views are not being considered, as well as "ours"? And how do you know that your future isn't on the line because of Saddam? Why do you not demand reason from him? How do you know he isn't planning on destroying your country with his weapons of mass destruction, chemical and biological warfare? I don't know why it is that you keep blaming one man, making all of this his responsibility...George Bush will NOT be the deciding party alone. And so what if he wants to nuke the whole country? Do you actually think there are members of the justice system that would all vote in favor of that? The President can be over ridden, in case you weren't aware. I am beginning a new week now without The Corner Pub. The people who post in the Open Forums and other sections in this website I call my house of friends, are much more deserving of my time. So you can continue debating for all its worth, maybe someone else will argue your points with you...and when the war is over and done, what will it matter anyhow? [This message has been edited by passing shadows (02-22-2003 08:34 PM).] |
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A. L. Becker Member
since 2002-09-06
Posts 167San Francisco, California |
allan, i label chomsky a communist because i HAVE read him. annie! "Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
A. L. Becker. Then you have not understood what he has been saying or else you do not understand the theories of communism. Please quote some statements of his which you regard to be advocating communism. |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
passing shadows, whether you have already gone or not, I don't think you have understood what I have been saying. Bush is trying to force the issue on this and make us all pay. That is NOT democracy. What right has he and his cohort to decide for us when we live in countries far away from the US. I am no advocate for Saddam Hussein but violence will beget only more violence. You (and Bush) advocate a path full of hatred and violence. I will have none of it. |
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