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United Stative instead of "American"

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Essorant
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0 posted 10-23-2008 02:02 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I would like to introduce and encourage people to use a new adjective for the United States and for referring to the people of the United States:


United Stative
United Statives

America is not the country.  It is the continent: United States (the country) of America (The Americas considered as a whole).  

Therefore, United Stative is a more legitimate adjective for the country, reserving "American" properly as an adjective for the continent and all people of the Americas, not just those of the United States.

Balladeer
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1 posted 10-23-2008 02:40 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Not going to happen, sir. American typically refers to the citizens of United States, even if it is not geographically exact. The rest of the world treats the word as meaning United States citizens.

I can understand your assertion that America is not only a country but it is so accepted in world-wide thought and it's not going to change. Is it something you only find curious or does it bother you in some way?
serenity blaze
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2 posted 10-23-2008 03:07 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I do not mean to speak for Essorant, but I might point out that Ess has a proclivity for exactness that would explain his motivation.

I mean, isn't Mexican American redundant?

Ron
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3 posted 10-23-2008 03:07 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
America is not the country.  It is the continent ...


Your logic is flawed, Ess. There are seven continents, none of which are called America. You might have had a leg to stand on had the prepositional phrase been "of North America." You might even have been able to press your point if you lived in Canada of America. As is, however, you could just as easily argue that Johnson's name is really just John, with son being descriptive rather than proscriptive. It won't fly, though, because there is a very long history of names being derived from descriptions.

serenity blaze
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4 posted 10-23-2008 04:16 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I think that however flawed the argument was presented, it's not without a point.

When someone is described as "European", I think most people I know would ask, "So what part of Europe are you from?"

Whereas, because of common parlance, if one announces that they are American, it's pretty much assumed they live in the United States.

And I think you guys are on the same side, btw.

Both of you fight the good fight to keep the common parlance clean.

Essorant
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5 posted 10-23-2008 04:43 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Balladeer

Yes it does bother me as being a misnomer, because it would be like people using the word European specifically to mean "French" instead of "European".  It may be popular, but that does not mean I won't avoid it and encourage others to avoid it. United Stative is a good alternative to such a popular misnomer.

Ron,

If you look at how the word continent was originally used more loosely you will see how the whole new world was seen as one "America", the "America", the continent, that is referred to in the name of your country.  It was not pluralized as "Americas" and it is still not always pluralized even today when they are considered together as a whole.

"The word continent

From the 1500s the English noun continent was derived from the term continent land, meaning continuous or connected land[43] and translated from the Latin terra continens.[44] The noun was used to mean "a connected or continuous tract of land" or mainland.[43] It was not applied only to very large areas of land — in the 1600s, references were made to the continents (or mainlands) of Kent, Ireland and Wales and in 1745 to Sumatra.[43] The word continent was used in translating Greek and Latin writings about the three "parts" of the world, although in the original languages no word of exactly the same meaning as continent was used.[45]

While continent was used on the one hand for relatively small areas of continuous land, on the other hand geographers again raised Herodotus’s query about why a single large landmass should be divided into separate continents. In the mid 1600s Peter Heylin wrote in his Cosmographie that "A Continent is a great quantity of Land, not separated by any Sea from the rest of the World, as the whole Continent of Europe, Asia, Africa." In 1727 Ephraim Chambers wrote in his Cyclopædia, "The world is ordinarily divided into two grand continents: the old and the new." And in his 1752 atlas, Emanuel Bowen defined a continent as "a large space of dry land comprehending many countries all joined together, without any separation by water. Thus Europe, Asia, and Africa is one great continent, as America is another."[46] However, the old idea of Europe, Asia and Africa as "parts" of the world ultimately persisted with these being regarded as separate continents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continents
 

Ron
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6 posted 10-23-2008 05:19 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Yes it does bother me as being a misnomer, because it would be like people using the word European specifically to mean "French" instead of "European".

Which might be appropriate if the name of the country had been France of Europe for a few hundred years.

Again, Essorant, United States of America is not a description. It's a name. Just like Johnson.

quote:
When someone is described as "European", I think most people I know would ask, "So what part of Europe are you from?"

Absolutely, Karen. And if someone is described as American most people would ask, "So, what part of America are you from?"

quote:
If you look at how the word continent was originally used more loosely ...

LOL. Oh, well, if we're going to start using words more loosely then . . .

Most of my European friends call us Murcans. Affectionately so, I'm sure.


serenity blaze
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7 posted 10-23-2008 05:32 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Wow.

I think that same pronunciation is used by Merlanders.

*chuckle*

and oh.

came back to add, many people ask if I'm from da Bronx or Brooklynn.
Essorant
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8 posted 10-23-2008 05:43 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Whether on its own or in the name of your country, America still properly means America as a whole, not just United States.  You United Statives also use America on its own to mean "The United States of America" instead of "America, or Americas".  But if we persist with that, the name of your country is the likeness of calling it "The United States of the United States of America"!


[This message has been edited by Essorant (10-23-2008 07:11 PM).]

Grinch
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9 posted 10-23-2008 07:11 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I quite like Gondwanalandish - it has a bit of history to it.

Balladeer
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10 posted 10-23-2008 10:50 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It may be popular, but that does not mean I won't avoid it and encourage others to avoid it.

Go for it, essorant! I wish you the best. When you're finished, you can work on the British-English thingie

Essorant
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11 posted 10-23-2008 11:30 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Thanks Balladeer

The British/English thing simple as well, that is, if you use the words properly.  

Who lives in Britain is British.  Who lives there in England is also English.  There is not much more to it than that.

Balladeer
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12 posted 10-23-2008 11:56 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Aha, I see. So Irish people are British...or are they Irish...or should they be called Irish Brits?

If I ask an Irishman if he's British, will he say yes or will he say he's Irish? If I ask an Englishman if he is British like an Irishman will he say sure?

What's simple for some is not always so simple for others.

I know that, in World War II, when the Allies said "the Americans are coming!", they weren't referring to Pancho Villa or the RCAF. When immigrants speak of coming to America, they're not talking about Mexico city or Vancouver. That's just the way it is.

You have a life-long mission in front of you, sir. Good luck  

Essorant
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13 posted 10-24-2008 12:42 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Balladeer,

It is still simple.  The Irish part (people and land) that is part of Britain is British as well.  And all being in or of Ireland, they are Irish whether or not they are British.  What is complex about that, unless you mix them up and use the words incorrectly?

An English will say he is also British (if he uses the word properly) because England is part of Britain, and therefore partakes in being British as well, just as Canada is part of the continent(s) of America and therefore partakes in being American.

  
Balladeer
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14 posted 10-24-2008 12:51 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Aha...I see the geographical accuracy of you statement, sir, but my question is this - will the Irishman call himself British or Irish and will the canadian call himself American or Canadian....even though, thoretically, they are?
Mysteria
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15 posted 10-24-2008 01:10 AM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

If it means I don't pay 14% tax, you bet your bippy I will say I am from Canada of America.  I wonder, would that make me an Americanuck?
Balladeer
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16 posted 10-24-2008 01:37 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, that beats Canuckican!
Essorant
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17 posted 10-25-2008 02:56 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Balladeer

I don't know.  It depends on the context that they are speaking and how properly they use the words.
Nan
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18 posted 10-25-2008 09:20 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

I like "AmeriCanuk" - It's stylish!..
critical mass
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There are a lot of people who would be offended by changing the name. If the name doesn't sound good to you, start your own country. I hear there's plenty of land available near Chernobyl. No disrespect intended. It's just a matter of history and pride.
Stephanos
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20 posted 03-26-2009 11:31 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

To me, "United Stative" just falls flat on the ear; It doesn't have enough 'old world' in it, even for the 'new world'.  For sheer aesthetics I'm gonna stick with American.

Stephen
Essorant
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21 posted 04-18-2009 04:34 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

That is because your ear is so used to "American".  

It is similar to "It is me" compared to "it is I".  "It is me" has incorrect grammar, but may sound "better" to peoples' ears because they hear it more often.


Balladeer
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22 posted 04-18-2009 11:34 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Don't worry. We'll be changing it to the USSA before too long.
Essorant
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23 posted 04-18-2009 12:24 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant


You should take off your blindfold Balladeer.  
Balladeer
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24 posted 04-18-2009 01:01 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Why? It's customary to wear one during an execution.
 
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