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Gotten?

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ESP
Member Elite
since 01-25-2000
Posts 2574
Floating gently on a cloud....


0 posted 05-20-2003 10:51 PM       View Profile for ESP   Email ESP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ESP

What is "gotten"?
Just wondering...

"Gorge the honey from life, and live through the stomach aches knowing they will pass..." ~Liz Pinard 2003~

Local Parasite
Deputy Moderator 10 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


1 posted 05-20-2003 10:55 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

eat - ate - eaten

get - got - gotten

As in, I seem to have eaten all the bagels.

But, I seem to have gotten away with it.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


2 posted 06-30-2004 08:45 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

It is part of a bad "have"-it.  

Consider the below with the simple and original meaning of have "to possess" in mind.  


"I have got(ten) much money."

You "possess got(ten)" much money?

Why say "have" and "got(ten)" when you may say "I have" or "I got"?


"I have ["possess"] given away all the donuts"

No, you have them not, you gave them away!


"I have ["possess"] to go to the bathroom?"

You have what?!  
A need?  A wish?  A sore bladder?  
Why not just say that you need, you wish/will, you must go to the bathroom?!


"I have ["possess"] had ["possessed"]"

This one is the worst of all modernists' evil grammar!  
If something is had, doesn't someone/something simply have it?

[This message has been edited by Essorant (06-30-2004 11:46 PM).]

Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


3 posted 07-01-2004 04:47 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

good GOT!
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


4 posted 07-01-2004 12:34 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

right up there with "been gonna" & "I seen".
ilsm
Member
since 04-13-2008
Posts 62
UK


5 posted 04-27-2008 07:30 PM       View Profile for ilsm   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ilsm

The Founding Fathers left our shores on the "Mayflower" and took "gotten" with them, leaving behind the little runt "got", which we Brits have so taken to our hearts that we have now disowned his bigger brother and deny his parentage.

This stands in place of the next sentence I wrote which was censored because I used a perfectly appropriate word in its proper sense, not implying sexual activity or deviance; and I'm extremely irritated by it as this is the second time a robot has censored my use of perfectly proper words without understanding what I meant.

I do not post inappropriate messages.  Three strikes and I leave this site.  One left.

ILSM
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


6 posted 04-27-2008 07:57 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

What letter(s) did that word begin with?   Perhaps some others may agree with you that it should not be censored and for a good reason.  
ilsm
Member
since 04-13-2008
Posts 62
UK


7 posted 04-27-2008 08:45 PM       View Profile for ilsm   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ilsm

I think "denial of parentage" is a pretty big clue: the word begins with "B".
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


8 posted 04-28-2008 12:07 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

You are right.  It does not make sense for that word to be censored.   If someone is going to speak insolence and they have "jerk" "pig" "idiot" "fool" "wretch" and many others that are not censored how much are they lacking by not having the word that literally means "illegitimate child"?  We are the ones lacking more when we wish to express a meaning in respectful speech and can't even have a legitimate word for it, only because someone by chance may say it in an insolent or offensive manner instead of the hundred other words that may be used insolently but aren't censored.  

Ron
Administrator
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since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


9 posted 04-28-2008 09:26 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I do not post inappropriate messages.  Three strikes and I leave this site.  One left.

Threats accomplish nothing. Why would you choose to wait for the inevitable? If you find our rules too onerous now, they won't be any less so tomorrow.

By the by, unless you were specifically speaking of a male child born out of wedlock, you were trying to use the word as a metaphor. If that metaphor seems perfectly appropriate to you, lacking any implication of its actual meaning, that's only because the metaphor has become a cliché. Much like other unacceptable words that have their roots in sexuality. Personally, I find this one more distasteful than most because it ostensibly insults a man for something over which he has no control and shouldn't, in any case, ever be an insult. It's the adult version of "Your momma wears combat boots."

For quite a few years, probably six or seven, we had only two words in our language censors, relying instead on the judgment of our Moderators to determine when a word was or wasn't properly used. That sometimes led to a lot of back-of-the-house debates, but it generally worked pretty well. Unfortunately, those debates lengthened and eventually no one was willing to make a decision. If it wasn't caught by the software, many reasoned, then it must be okay. So, we added a whole bunch of words to the software filters (there's a list of them posted in Grok This) and that pretty much solved the problem. Of course, as is always the case, it created new problems. It wasn't always fair and it sometimes forced writers to think beyond the obvious to express themselves. Nonetheless, these are the rules people agree to follow when they join our little community. They're open to discussion, but not open to interpretation. And they're certainly not going to be changed because of threats.


ilsm
Member
since 04-13-2008
Posts 62
UK


10 posted 04-28-2008 07:53 PM       View Profile for ilsm   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ilsm

Threat?  Who was I threatening?  It was a statement of intent if I was unfairly censored again.

I take the next part of your response as an invitation to go now.  Very well: I shall.  I could have lived with justifiable censorship, but if a word's current normal dictionary-defined meaning is perfectly acceptable to all but the most prurient in modern society, and it is banned here, then it follows that whoever is responsible is trying to impose his own standards on the rest.  It's your website.  go ahead - but go ahead without me.

By the way, your own well-respected Meriam-Webster (online version) defines the word I used as

1: an illegitimate child
2: something that is spurious, irregular, inferior, or of questionable origin
3 a: an offensive or disagreeable person —used as a generalized term of abuse
b:  Man or fellow

(Nothing about male children born out of wedlock there - definitions 1 & 3b are the closest: an illegitimate child, or a man.  But not illegitimate child that is male.)

I used the word in the sense of definition 2 in the sentence that was censored: "gotten" is supposedly being treated as spurious, irregular, inferior, or of questionable origin by the British because it is an "Americanism".

Is there a rule against using metaphors here? Or cliches, come to that?  ("Child born out of wedlock" is a cliche, byt the way.)  If so, why?  If not, why mention it?

I'm sorry you find the word distatesful, particularly when your reasons are wrong.  But if it IS the equivalent of "Your momma wears combat boots"  why am I allowed to write that expression?

I require ALL my posts to be deleted from this site immediately (I would do it myself, but I'm unable to).  Then I wish my membership to be cancelled.

ILSM
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


11 posted 04-28-2008 08:46 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

You'll excuse me if I won't accept Merriam-Webster as an authority on which words we find acceptable in a family-oriented area? Look up a few words beginning with the letter F and you'll discover MW is much more inclusive than we are. At any rate, I see no profit in arguing the point with someone who is leaving any way. It was never a matter of what you find acceptable, but rather what you agreed to when you joined.

As for your demand, you'll find those don't go over any better than do your threats. I'm guessing you never bothered to read the rules you agreed to follow? Nonetheless, they still apply.


Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


12 posted 04-29-2008 08:37 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I don't understand why you are taking it so far, ilsm.  If you get this upset and impatient for an issue about a word, how do you deal with the harsher problems of life?  

May not you and Ron begin over again, and try discussing the issue in a friendly and rational way instead?  

chopsticks
Senior Member
since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


13 posted 05-01-2008 03:54 PM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

Islm. I hope you don’t leave. You are one of the few people I have agreed with on here. So take Essorant's ,

the peace makers, advice. They censored a word on me sometime back , I got drunk for a week .

I was out mountain biking with a friend when we saw an UFO He screamed at me, YOU DIDN’T BRING

THE DAMN CAMERA WIDJUDIDJU.

I  don’t think widjudidju is a English word ? It may even get censored .

[This message has been edited by chopsticks (05-01-2008 04:28 PM).]

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


14 posted 05-03-2008 01:40 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Bereshit "In-the-beginning"

I was just checking to see if the last four letters of that word would be censored or not.  I am glad that they are not.  That is the first (hebrew) word of the bible!


chopsticks
Senior Member
since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


15 posted 05-03-2008 07:54 AM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

Essorant, I had no idea .To answer a positive question I have always responded with , “ Does a bear live in the woods “ . I won’t use that anymore. How about, “ Is the pope catholic “ or “ Is a bluebird blue “

Wait up islm  
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


16 posted 05-04-2008 08:49 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

A bear in Hebrew is actually a dov.  But a fish is a dag.  
 
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