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Negations
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Negations |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
There are many old negations that were much more concise than modern ones. Here are some I have come across you might find interesting: Ne: I) Not (precedes verbs) I ne will be thy wife. II) Not...neither...nor I ne seek ne fame ne praise Nis (ne + is) He nis aware of it. Nam: (ne + am) I nam impressed. Nart (ne + art) And thou nart very smart. Nere (ne + were) They nere here. Nave: (ne + have) I nave a clue . Nad: (ne + had) I nad a chance with thee. Nill: (ne + will) Will he or nill he? Nist: (ne + wist) I nist what it meant. Nould: (ne + would) They nould change their minds. [This message has been edited by Essorant (02-16-2003 09:49 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Here are a few more... Nas (ne + was) There nas need for it. or (ne + has) He nas their votes. Not (ne + wot) Wherefore doth he not a thing? |
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IcyFlamez89 Member
since 2003-02-14
Posts 292Jersey City NJ |
Arrgh, I'm having ebough troubles with modern vocabualry as it is. I get the ne part but the add ons get me more ??? than usual If my teach eva saw this I'll be spendin all my nights again studying webster's dictionary. Pity for the student anyone? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I just realized that "Wherefore doth he not a thing?" is incorrect grammar. Since after the word doth, the infinitive nit (ne + wit) should be used. Wherefore doth he nit a thing? not should show up without an "auxiliary" verb: Wherefore not he a thing? I didn't notice that mistake for a few years. Oh well, better late than never  |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Hi! Scottish, Irish, and Welsh dialects provide a mother lode of alternative "English" speech still in use. "Nicht," as a negative -- "He'll nicht be hame for supper -- is interesting as "nicht" can also mean "night," as in the Scots toungue twister "It's a braw bricht moonlit nicht t'nicht." If one was walking the streets of Dundee, it would be possible today to hear a comment such as, "Ah, coo, isne she a bonnie wee bairn, noo?" Not something an American might say, though we'd immediately get the drift. Of course, if one were walking the streets of Dundee today, one would probably want a cudgel to ward off the hooligans. Best, Jim |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Nary is a word I don't hear much, but use due to my grandparent's influence. Nary a drop of kindness. variation of ne'er a, never a, not any, no, not one. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I forgot about nary. That is an interesting negation as well. |
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ilsm Member
since 2008-04-13
Posts 61UK |
I know next to nothing about archaic negatives, but "ne" does seem to smack of Norman French to me. In French, the "ne" had to be accompanied by a further negative word (double negatives were mandatory, it seems), such as ne ... pas, ne ... personne, ne ... jamais. Is, or rather, was that the case with the old negatives being discussed? |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear Essorant, It may be bad current grammar, though not to my mind, but it was not always such a thing in English and I do believe you've stumbled across an example. You know Fowler on split infinitives; and, as I recall, disagree? Or do I disremember. By the way, I love these linguistic comments you toss in every now and again. Thanks! Yours, BobK. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Ilsm A similar thing may be seen with the word mouse that Old English spelt as mus. Mouse is also spelt as mus in Old Norse, Latin, and Sanskrit. These words are just cognates though, not loanwords. "Ne" was the regular word for "not" and "nor" since the first traces of English, and could be used with or without other auxiliary negatives in the sentence. Notice how all the negations mentioned above are from words that begin with a vowel, the letter w, or the letter h. When ne preceded very common words beginning with those letters such as was, will, had, ever, one the ne became contracted with the word making nas, nill, nad, never, none etc. Almost all negatives in English come from such contractions. Bob, I don't think it is bad grammar at all. It is just unfamiliar good grammar. If no one ends up reviving some of these negations, then at least they may still learn what they are finding in such passages as those below from Chaucer's "The Knight's Tale":"I nam but deed, ther nis no remedye." "I not which hath the wofullere mester" "His spirit chaunged hous and wente ther, As I cam nevere, I kan nat tellen wher. Therfore I stynte, I nam no divinistre, Of soules fynde I nat in this registre, Ne me ne list thilke opinions to telle Of hem, though that they writen wher they dwelle" "This world nis but a thurghfare ful of wo, And we ben pilgrimes, passinge to and fro" quote: I don't have a problem with a few split infinitives, just as I don't have a problem with a few spelling mistakes. No one is perfect. But just like spelling mistakes, I think we should try to avoid them, rather than pretend they are not mistakes. |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Split infinitives. I confess, there are times when I hear them and they make me wince. Other times, I seem not to notice. Because I do not notice the ones that sail by until a rereading, and sometimes not always then, really there's no telling how many I do miss. I have often wondered what makes the stand-outs really grate? It's gotten to the point that hearing the music for Star Trek makes me flee a room, knowing the split infinitive approaching coming at warp nine. Heaven help the di-lithium crystals! That one seems especially blood curdling for me. Others seem fine with it; it is painful for me "to boldly go where no man has gone before." Would that I might never go there again. Is there some special thing that triggers split infinitive illness in anybody, or is it particular to me? Also, do you remember the Monty Python skit, "We are The Men Who Say Ni?" Not as in ne pas, but as in knee. The talk of these negatives has brought it to mind. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Hebrew has a similar form of the infinitive with "to", but the "to" literally isn't split at all from the verb! lishemor means "to guard" (the li- meaning "to"). The li- "to" infinitive is the most common. But the infinitive may also sometimes be used with a different preposition, as be- "in": Bishemor means "in guarding" (the bi- meaning "in") In English the "to" is not prefixed, but it is so much part of the to-infinitive that it may be more accurate to think of it as a prefix (to-go of instead of just to go), just as it is used as a prefix in the words to-day, to-morrow, etc. The infinitive is truly a (verbal) noun. The "to" should go with it just as it does with other nouns/ nounphrases: (putting a hyphen helps express this relationship) not to-the-house instead of to not the house and boldy to-the-house, instead of to boldly the house. Likewise, in verbs: not to-go instead of to not go, and boldly to-go instead of to boldly go. |
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