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Because I miss all of those great debates with Kamla ...
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Because I miss all of those great debates with Kamla ... |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash 
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Thought I'd drop in and try to stir up the pot a bit.  In verse (poetic forms ... sonnets, villanelles, etc.) is strict iambic pentameter necessary? I don't think so. Do you? |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
You two argue? Perish the thought!  |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Strict Iambic? Hardly...why should it be? Anyway Jim - I detest that word - 'should'...I think rules are extremely fun things to break, I am the word rebel! LOL... (though admittedly there is a difference between creating and murdering when it comes to this lovely language of ours) Now, my one difficulty in rising to the occasion here is that I have never written anything in Iambic anything before... Sonnets give me the hebegeebees...though I am trying to rectify that - I will write a sonnet even if it damn near kills me... and you know what - it will likely be in Iambic - cause I want to do the whole 'traditional' thing - just to prove I can!  Now, though, while I agree that strict iambic is not perhaps a necessity for a sonnet, tell me - how does it render the poem? Is it still a sonnet in the true sense? K |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Kamla: "Now, though, while I agree that strict iambic is not perhaps a necessity for a sonnet, tell me - how does it render the poem? Is it still a sonnet in the true sense?" If you didn't consider sonnets not written in strict iambic pentameter "true" sonnets, then the numbering system for Shakespeare's sonnets is REALLY screwed up. I agree that while someone is beginning to learn to write metered verse it is probably a good thing to try for strict regularity of meter. Oftentimes (not always) strict iambic meter ends up sounding like a metronome and this, in my opinion, is not a good thing. Meter, use of hard or soft consonants, long and short vowels, and long and short syllables ALL impact the overall sound of the poem (soft, jarring, racing, slow and easy). I think manipulating the meter to make a better use of sound is often beneficial to the poem. If you need a sonnet-tutor, shoot me an e-mail. Chris: (Why do I always typo your name as "Christ" then have to backspace ... could you be the Messiah?)  Kamla and I never argue ... we do debate (she scares me too much to ever consider getting in an argument with her). Jim |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
SONNET TUTOR! SONNET TUTOR! SONNET TUTOR! (Let's just skip the e-mail...lol) K |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
When Kamla invited me to English this morning I was kinda suspicious .. now all is reveal'ED (as Handel and the Bible say) .. she wanted an audience to behold her shredding of Luckless Jim (lol...did you get that !!? .. not bad for 11pm eh?).. I agree with you both btw ... btw jim she needs no encouraging to show of her talents .. and i can't believe she'll subject herself to tutoring!! ..gawd whatever next .... she'll be calling you "jimteach" next ... p |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Look Sir P...I invite you here out of the kindness of my heart...feeling sorry for you you know, thinking you're just not busy enough...and you come here and...and...and...well HUMPH! 'Luckless Jim'? It'll be 'Luckless-scratched-and-bitten-Sir P' in a minute... Anyway Jim - I will probably throw in a fem. ending just to look good and make it all sound nice...lol KP.S - I MAY just cope without tutoring - but at least JIM is nice enough to offer, unlike someone I could mention... K |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Kamla: Sometimes the British are so overcome by their inborn self-importance that they forget the importance of common courtesy. Philip IS a country chap from Lancashire so I suspect there is hope for him. Kamla ... maybe between the two of us, we can make him more sensitive ... kinda like the French. Philip: The tutoring thing was just a front for my gleaning knowledge and insight from a poetic genius like Kamla. Thanks for blowing my cover!  Jim |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
Kamla asked that I post this after we had discussed the question. A sonnet is a fourteen-line poem in iambic pentameter with a carefully patterned rhyme scheme. The Italian, or Petrarchan sonnet, named after Francesco Petrarch, the Italian poet, was introduced into English poetry in the early 16th century by Sir Thomas Wyatt. Its fourteen lines break into an octave (or octet), which usually rhymes abbaabba, but which may sometimes be abbacddc or even (rarely) abababab; and a sestet, which may rhyme xyzxyz or xyxyxy, or any of the multiple variations possible using only two or three rhyme-sounds. The English or Shakespearean sonnet, developed first by Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey ,consists of three quatrains and a couplet--that is, it rhymes abab cdcd efef gg. The Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry and Poetics pretty much said that contemporary poets ofren vary the rhyme scheme, use near rhymes, and even compose freestyle fourteen-line sonnets that eliminate rhyme altogether, along with the standard iambic pentameter. Jamie Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil. "Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely". |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
And them's the facts...thankye Jamie, my saviour... So Jim - what do you think? I like this: 'freestyle fourteen-line sonnets that eliminate rhyme altogether, along with the standard iambic pentameter.' You know what this means hey? I can write a FV poem and pretend it is a sonnet...this is great for me!!! Now Sir P - I know you speak French, so you are half way to discovering that sensitivity you so ardently need...let Jim and I donne you the rest...hehe...LOL... Jamie - I am muchly muchly happy you blessed us with your knowledge - for I really have been given a freestyling freeride now! WAHOO! K |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Yeah well i guess it was kinda predictable that two heathen foreigners should both turn on a citizen of this great and good island .. right now i have Land of Hope and Glory full volume on my Sony hi-fi and my little ol' union jack fluttering in the breeze of the AEG microwave fan ... do thy worst ..... heh heh !! later winston |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Yet another nostalgic moment... Bring back the P man I say! (oh yeah - and the rest of you can come too I spoooooooooose....even YOU J) [This message has been edited by Severn (edited 03-06-2001).] |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Kamla: Those were the days (~sigh~). I can still come out and play from time to time but I'm afraid you may have to set up an appointment with my secretary first.Jim P.S. Don't you think a poetry tag entitled "The Case of the Missing Englishman" might flush our European friend out of the bushes for long enough to say "hi"? |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Oh he says 'hi' all right - on a regular basis through emailing, he just won't be here for awhile and I have to admit to missing his presence here VERY SULKILY lollol... He is safe and alive and still as much of a pain as ever... I'm trying to curtail that attitude problem of his - sadly, it isn't working.. Heh. Now YOU on the other hand - don't YOU disappear completely ok? Hope all is going well with ya boy...  K |
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