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Archaic Language |
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Gene Senior Member
since 2000-01-23
Posts 935Colorado, USA |
What's everyone's opinion on using archaic language in poems. For some reason I tend to fall into it when writing sonnets. Some people don't think it's appropriate, but I like it. ~Gene |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
I think whatever it takes to make that poem your own, do it! I do like to read those archaic words from time to time...makes me think Shakespeare is alive and well and living in a duplex in Biloxi!  |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
The only problem I have with its use is that many people just are not very good at it.  I like writing sonnets and using archaic language can be fun to help give the sonnet a more "classical" feel but I think it is important, in order for verse to be taken seriously, that we try to write in modern language whenever we can. That way I think we are more inclined to develop our own style of writing rather than writing in an immitation of someone else's style. |
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Gene Senior Member
since 2000-01-23
Posts 935Colorado, USA |
PdV -- Thanks, I like it too and I like to imagine myself writing back in the time of Shakespeare. But I also agree with jbouder to some extent, so this is my dilemma. jbouder -- I agree that archaic language is used improperly too often and should only be used if it really adds to the poem. On the other hand, the sonnet format was invented, based on the language of that time. So, why should we assume that modern English will work properly. It's kinda like trying to translate a poem from another language--you can get the gist of it, but you can never really convey exactly what the poet had originally intended. For example, Italian sonnets were naturally based on Italian. Why should the "Italian" format work for English? ~Gene |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Gene: We've had a discussion similar to this one in CA a short while back. My argument concerning the sonnet format is that it is simply a form with strictly defined syllable count, line numbers, and meter. English, both archaic and modern, is accentual and, therefore, work in the sonnet format. "So, why should we assume that modern English will work properly. It's kinda like trying to translate a poem from another language--you can get the gist of it, but you can never really convey exactly what the poet had originally intended. For example, Italian sonnets were naturally based on Italian. Why should the "Italian" format work for English?" I'm not saying that I am an expert (actually, I consider myself a beginner) but why don't you tell me whether I convey what you think I intended to convey (these are all Italian Sonnets, by the way): *** My Son (by Jim Bouder) Autistic shackles hold your little tongue From telling me the punch line of the joke That caused your fits of laughter to provoke Excited happy tears. You’ve never sung Your favorite Barney song, and when you clung To me that winter night when you awoke To bitter fearful sobs, you never spoke A word of what tormented one so young. Although autistic shackles bind his speech, His love is blazoned on his beaming smile. Although I missed the punch line of that jest, I laughed myself to happy tears. And each Dark night when he awakes and fears defile His sleep, in Daddy’s arms he finds his rest. *** The Weight of a Voice (by Jim Bouder) I never thought I’d have to stand and fight Against the very people charged to teach My son to learn to speak and help him reach What some might call a normal life. Tonight, Like many other nights, my doubts indict The righteousness of my resolve, impeach The soundness of my judgement, whereas each Delay exacerbates a young boy’s plight. It’s hard enough to raise my son without The added obstacles that aggravate The fear of knowing every minute choice I make must be, without the slightest doubt, In his best interest; a grievous weight That I must bear to give my boy a voice. *** Freedom (by Jim Bouder) Freedom, so many waive your banner high Proclaiming rightly that no kind of law Can be imposed on any man – for all Who disregard another’s will and vie To bind a man to unjust laws, decry His liberty and make of him a thrall – But what if people answer Freedom’s call With selfless thoughts for no one else but “I”? “I” cheapens precious freedom’s blood-bought price, Reduces liberty to unchecked license, Enslaves the weak to chains of lust and vice, And is the brand that sears the callous conscience. I, a freeman and a servant, won't deny True freedom never finds its rest in “I”. *** I submit to you that classic formats work in modern English. When I wrote my first sonnet I based it on my readings of William Shakespeare and used archaic language (this was more because I had read Shakespeare almost exclusively and was greatly influenced in the beginning by him). You tell me what you think. Jim [This message has been edited by jbouder (edited 04-27-2000).] |
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Gene Senior Member
since 2000-01-23
Posts 935Colorado, USA |
Jim, Those sonnets are lovely. What you said about Shakespeare-- LOL --is exactly what happened to me. It's hard to break out of that. ~Gene |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Gene: Thanks for the compliment. "Breaking out" of the archaic rut just takes a little bit of discipline on your part. You speak modern language everyday so it follows that you should be able to write it easily enough.  Just give it a serious try. The first try is tough but it gets easier with subsequent tries.Later, Gene. Let me know if I can be of any help. Jim |
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Munda Member Elite
since 1999-10-08
Posts 3544The Hague, The Netherlands |
I must say I do enjoy sonnets in Archiac language, although I must also admit I get confused when it goes further then "thee", "thou" and "thy", but hey....I'm Dutch.  However, I also agree with Jim when he says use Modern English when you write in the present time and Archaic language for classic poems/sonnets, like with the Guinevere - Lancelot sonnets. That sure was fun....when are we going to write something together again ? |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Hmmm....well, like anything, archaic language can be overused. However, in a 8-page poetic essay I once wrote for an English class, I got marked down for archaic usage...seems that I used an uncommon contraction for 'it would' and 'it will'....dunno why it got marked down though...the essay was a character analysis on the Underground Man in Dostoevsky's "Note From Underground". *shrugs* Otherwise...well, the usage is up to the individual poet...is called Poetic License...hmm..better check, think mine might've done gone and expired on me.... Alicat the Persnikitty |
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