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Passions in Poetry

I Saw Stars

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Michael
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-13-99
Posts 7003
California


25 posted 03-10-2000 10:52 PM       View Profile for Michael   Email Michael   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michael

Balladeer & Deb,  You all snook in on me while I was replying... I apologize for not recognizing you.

Balladeer, Time is a wonder in itself, isn't it?

Deb, don't worry - they'll bury me with this pen I'm sure - it's grafted into my hand me thinks...

Marilyn,    I am sorry to hear that.  But as you say, there is a reson for everything even if we don't see it at the time.  Your sunshine awaits you, I know it does.  


Thank you all,

Michael


WhtDove
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since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


26 posted 03-10-2000 11:10 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

WOOOHOOOO!! A poem of hope and uplifting! Way to GO! Imagery, imagery I saw those stars and that hope, and the moon, and WOW!
poetFemmeFatale
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since 07-25-99
Posts 2961
Arkansas


27 posted 03-10-2000 11:22 PM       View Profile for poetFemmeFatale   Email poetFemmeFatale   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for poetFemmeFatale

Michael...If we still catch their essance, then I do believe they can still catch our wishes...As long as there is light, then there is hope.  (I'm starting to sound real intelligent of late, don't you agree?)    Hey, I left a message on Chris' new poem about you two...you should read!  LOL  SLEEP TIGHT!
Michael
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28 posted 03-10-2000 11:42 PM       View Profile for Michael   Email Michael   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michael

Gen, that went way beyond intelligent and landed somewhere in the philosophical me thinks.  You've been eating those Chinese fortune cookies again, haven't you?  But yes, I wholeheartedly agree.


Michael


jbowie
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since 02-18-2000
Posts 137
BANGOR (that OR) ME


29 posted 03-11-2000 12:22 AM       View Profile for jbowie   Email jbowie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbowie

I must say that this poem stands a very close second to another I read from you some time ago. Perhaps though it is the most uplifting and is indeed completing your cycle. Good job defending your poem and politely explaining why it is as it is. Oh and yes, I have made apologies to Gen for my intrusion, not knowing how convoluted and integral the poetic pieces were to your past relationship. We have made peace, and now do not want you to think I am a boob as well. (my 'considering' line was confrontational and inapproprite for this setting or in life in general)
poetFemmeFatale
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since 07-25-99
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Arkansas


30 posted 03-11-2000 12:35 AM       View Profile for poetFemmeFatale   Email poetFemmeFatale   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for poetFemmeFatale

ROFL at Bowie being a Boob....   Actually Mr. Bowie, you've helped us all laugh a bit, considering!     Remember?  I am no longer Fatal, and Michael carries antidote now!   to Michael...
JamesMichael
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since 11-16-1999
Posts 33311
Kapolei, Hawaii, USA


31 posted 03-11-2000 06:13 AM       View Profile for JamesMichael   Email JamesMichael   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JamesMichael

Michael this poem is so full of beauty and hope.   James
jbouder
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since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


32 posted 03-11-2000 09:06 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Michael:

I appreciated your defense of your work but I find myself in agreement with bboog on a few points.  

I liked bboog's suggestion of substituting something along the lines of "Nothing was going right" for "Heaven was opened bright".  You say that "Nothing was going right" has nothing to do with you poem, yet you include:

"First time in thirty days,
I could feel that yearning."

"The clouds had finally broken"

"A spectacle aslope,
Set to ease a timeless sorrow."

"Last night I saw stars and...
I remembered how to dream."

I think it is very reasonable to interpret the times before this ecstatic experience as times when "Nothing was going right."  If, truly, "Nothing was going right" has nothing to do with your poem then, perhaps, you may want to clarify what exactly your state of mind was before this experience.  I don't think bboog "assumed" that "Nothing was going right", I think he reached that conclusion based upon your wording.

"C.  You're changing the rhyme scheme and in all truthfullness - that's not very poetic to me...  If you are gonna offer critique, that is fine in my book and always apppreciated, but at least take as much care in your offering as I have in preparing the poem."

I personally think this was unfair of you to say.  There is nothing "unpoetic" about rhyming couplets, btw, unless you consider Blake's and Shakespeare's works to be unpoetic.  I also think, because your meter is sporadic, that rhyming couplets would allow the poem to read easier.  I also think bboog put more time into reading this than most who replied and much more than for which you give him credit.  You should be more appreciative of that.  His criticism was constructive and "If you are gonna offer critique ... at least take as much care in your offering as I have in preparing the poem" was out of line, in my humble opinion.

"Aslope" seemed out of place to me too.  Aslope means "sloping" or "slanting" when used as an adjective.  I would think "expansive" or "vast" would be better words to describe what I gather you saw from the rest of your poem.  "Refract", by the way means "to break up".

"There was nothing wanting in my life before last night - thus no dream."

or

"First time in thirty days,
I could feel that yearning.
That leaves the eyes aglaze,
The heart open and burning."

Your life wasn't "wanting" for that "yearning"?  Why am I confused?

"To fully grasp this piece, there are at least three other poems I made direct referance to and lest you were someone I wrote those poems to personally, I would not expect you to catch them, nor undersatnd them.  That is the beauty of poetic liscense, is it not?"

Actually, the beauty of poetry is being able to make someone see what you saw and feel what you felt with your words.  Maybe I just have difficulty recognizing your plethora of poetic nuances that you utilize in your writing.  Vague allusions to prior works do not help your poem, Michael.  So I agree with bboog in that you ought to consider a rewrite.  JMHO.

Regards,

Jim




[This message has been edited by jbouder (edited 03-11-2000).]
Michael
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33 posted 03-11-2000 10:06 AM       View Profile for Michael   Email Michael   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michael

Jim

Just a few quick notes - glad I gaught this before I got out the - uh, I think.  First off, I apologize I don't have time to get into this formally with you.

On "Nothing was going right" being suggested as a line.  

A.  First off, it wasn't as if that was the case in my life.  More like "nothing going at all".  I could accept that.  If I were to examine my mood I would say it lacked luster, but I would also say I was very comfortable where I was in it, that has been my life as an abused child and a clinically depressed adult.  Truly, I felt nothing and I view "Nothing was going right" as a negative phrase that in no way refelcts my mood which was numb, if anything.  

B.  I will ~stress~ the importance of including the word heaven.  Heaven is a word I dearly wanted included in this poem - that line happened to be the first off my pen.  "Heaven" is what I saw, (the first word that came to mind) when I walked out the door... and that was the jist of this whole poem.  The hope of heaven if you will.
Changing this line to the suggested one changes the whole aspect as well as the whole tone of the poem.

C. "First time in thirty days,
I could feel that yearning."

"The clouds had finally broken"

Those are literal truths in a poem I wrote to run on two planes.  One being "metaphorically" while mainting the "literal" aspect.  The stars call to me - being the first time in thirty actual days I saw them - and so clearly to boot - yes there was a yearning.  "Truth" is very important to me on any plane I write on...If it's not true to this author - this author is not gonna be comfortable penning it.

"A spectacle aslope,
Set to ease a timeless sorrow."

"Last night I saw stars and...
I remembered how to dream."

"Timeless sorrow" is a referance to my depression - my longstanding inability to feel joy (Again, that doens't have to mean something's wrong...) as well as a poetic referance to another poem by the same title.  Read that and you will find my unspoken wish as well.

"Remembered how to dream" is another poetic referance to a poem entitled "Forgotten Dream", again the inclusion of this phraze was very important to me.  It served it's purpose of an uplifting, inspiring ending, as well as the satisfaction I drew from it in personal referance.

I know this might sound selfish but I write for "myself".  If my poetry isn't serving my emotion truly - I doubt I could effectly offer my emotion to others.  I may not die a famous poet but I will die true to myself and not in the shadows of the countless nameless poets who sold out on their emotion for the sake of sylable counting.  In my opinion, too much attention is given to society's demand,  I think this is because few can define their "own" demands.  I know what I want to produce in my poetry, and I'm truly sorry it doen't meet "the rules of pefrect poetry" but then if I wanted wanted to be perfect to begin with, I'd be posting in C.A.  I express and release "my" emotion in my works.  I wouldn't quell that for anybody, nor any rule, nor change it because my emotion is misunderstood.

Now then, you say:

I personally think this was unfair of you to say.  There is nothing "unpoetic" about rhyming couplets, btw, unless you consider Blake's and Shakespeare's works to be unpoetic.  I also think, because your meter is sporadic, that rhyming couplets would allow the poem to read easier.

A. you misinterpreted my commment.  I could have worded it better if I had said:

"You're changing the rhyme scheme and in all truthfullness the phraze you offer is not very poetic to me..."

Truthfully it's not.  "Nothing was going right" not only bring so much negativity to a poem where I tried to maintain a positive aspect all the way through, but the line itself just read flat to me.  I like my words to sing to the reader and not sound like I'm throwing a pity party or writing a bad country song. Please don't take that as a slam, but that was the first thing I thought of when I saw that line. (My honest opinion, only)

B.  Meter and rhyme scheme I hold and two different planes.  I don't "personally" see where my meter would be improved by changing the rhyme scheme or why you think the poem would flow better there.  I played guitar in a band and wrote songs for three years.  Thus, I don't always keep details on exact meter, but believe me, I pay attention to flow, even so...  Thus again, is why I say I like my poems to sing..."If I can't hear myself singing it"  I sure ain't writing it.

O.K.    I also think bboog put more time into reading this than most who replied and much more than for which you give him credit.  You should be more appreciative of that.  His criticism was constructive and "If you are gonna offer critique ... at least take as much care in your offering as I have in preparing the poem" was out of line, in my humble opinion.

You have no arguement from me there.
Bboog, my sincerest apologies.  My "defences" were up last night already when I happened onto your critique.  Most assuredly I do thank you, for not many do offer critique here on any level.  It is most welcome, I assure you.

O.K.  You say:

"Aslope" seemed out of place to me too.  Aslope means "sloping" or "slanting" when used as an adjective.  I would think "expansive" or "vast" would be better words to describe what I gather you saw from the rest of your poem.  "Refract", by the way means "to break up".

And what happens to light when it refracts?  my dictionary says and I'll quote:

" Refract - a bending (as in a ray of light) in passing from one medium to another".  - Therein isn't "aslope" an accurate accessment?

I realize refract can also mean to break up - but Jim, trust me when I say I just don't grasp at words when I write, or explain myself. I choose me words carefully, that is probably why the "defense" mode kicked in whe both you and Bboog question the word "aslope".  Also, since you were bringing up "poetic" qualities - "A spectacle aslope" carries alliteration... and almost double alliteration.  Both effectively work to the flow of the poem and I implore as often as I can in most my works.

I could also get long winded and philosophical on the contour of the universe itself - I don't have time to go there today.  Rest assure, I know the meanings of aslope and refract both.

In answer of your remaining questions - I stand firm that I had no wanting in my life.  Awakening to an ability to want in itself would accuratley describe myself and my mood in stepping outside and writing a simple poem at such a refreshing view.  Perhaps I could say something was not right in my life to please you but then, I'd have to say it's been wrong for the "whole" of my life since my own personal age of recognition which was roughly the age of 5.  although I walked numb to the world - I walked the best I could - "something was right" about it I'm sure.

I apologize if you find this poem vague.  If you saw my view, felt my mood, you would understand completely.  You would also know that any and all poetic referances in no way hinder the message of this poem.  I don't see need for a rewrite, here.


Thanks for the indepth reply Jim.  I won't have time to wait for a rebuttle but go ahead and write one if you wish, i will be back Monday most likely.

And thank you too, Bboog, once again.

Sincerely


Michael

  




[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 03-11-2000).]
jbouder
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since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


34 posted 03-11-2000 05:05 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

No rebuttals, merely offering critique (as apposed to inviting debate).  Good answers, but I stand by my opinions.
Denise
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Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23005


35 posted 03-11-2000 07:49 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I usually don't get such a breathtaking view of the stars in the city.....they sound so beautiful....perhaps it's time for a trip to the Planetarium! Awesome! You feel like you are floating in space! That's what your poem brought back to my memory! Thank you!

Denise
bboog
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since 02-29-2000
Posts 307
Valencia, California


36 posted 03-11-2000 09:50 PM       View Profile for bboog   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit bboog's Home Page   View IP for bboog

To Michael: I think I know how you feel - that you've written a solid piece of writing. And many people have felt the same way as you, defending their present good work. What I've found, however, is that sometimes when you receive a critique from someone like me, a person who hasn't read your past works or who has even written poetry for as long as you, that it can often improve the work.
Also, thank you to Jim for his analysis and coming to my defense. I often give my first reaction, which may or not please the author, but it's meant to improve the work and not disrespect the author.
best regards,
bboog
Elizabeth
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37 posted 09-01-2016 12:32 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

In the sky, there is always hope....
 
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