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Peter J Marcroft
Member
since 2003-02-02
Posts 265
York, England

0 posted 2003-07-27 03:24 PM



That is right, this is to be my last ever post on this site.  I have been considering it for a while now after some bitter circumstances.

The final ever poetry topic I made is now on 'open poetry #27' and is a small anthology of the pieces that highlight my time on this site.

I truly wish all poets the best of luck with their work in the future, only a small minority are responsible for my leaving and there are many people here that I will miss in the future.

I am now looking for a new home for my poetry and wish that sometime in the future our paths will cross again...

But until next time...


Fare thee well!

© Copyright 2003 Peter J Marcroft - All Rights Reserved
Miah
Senior Member
since 2002-08-26
Posts 1062
Pennsylvania
1 posted 2003-07-27 03:36 PM


Good luck in whatever you do.
Toad
Member
since 2002-06-16
Posts 161

2 posted 2003-07-27 04:14 PM


Now I'm even more confused.

Is this your final final final goodbye?

nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200
Between the Lines
3 posted 2003-07-27 04:27 PM


Toad, you make me laugh

Peter
...for someone who wants to leave here so badly because of the treatment, I have been wondering myself why so many goodbyes...methinks someone protests too much or whatever that saying is... or maybe is awaiting an apology or a flood of responses...~sighing~

maybe you should just stay and post (like you are)follow the guidelines and see what happens... you can always post those "other" poems elsewhere where they won't get deleted.


M

Peter J Marcroft
Member
since 2003-02-02
Posts 265
York, England
4 posted 2003-07-27 04:48 PM


I am afraid I cannot stay at a corrupt website.  I have read and re-read the offending post from Ron which effectively unleashed moderators to witch hunt my work, I quote...   "There will be no further edits and no more moves to another forum for your work, Peter. They will simply be yanked by the first Moderator who feels you've once again broken our Guidelines. Peter posts, Moderator reads, Moderator pulls for just about any reason they want. We're not going to waste any more time discussing borderline infractions or your possible intent, nor will we bother with warnings or email messages you'll probably just ignore as you seem to have ignored the last one I sent to you.

Be happy, Peter. You will now be getting the special treatment you wanted.


This allows my work to be witch hunted for any reason by mods, which I refuse to accept.

Either we all get witch hunted or none of us do, there are no exceptions as this site claims often we are equals here, WELL START TREATING US THAT WAY!

The only way I would return is if I did recieve a full apology for this and a guaruntee that I would not fall foul to the content of this quote, that my work would be edited, analysed and my case heard.  Since this is not likely to happen in the near future, I am leaving.

Now the idea of this topic was to leave amicably without enmity or hatred or the resurrecting of bitterness.  The anthology was a post meant to bid farewell to the fans of my work or people curious about it.  I am leaving, I doubt there will be a return as it seems my presence is no longer welcome.

Farewell!  See you all in the shadows!

Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354
Listening to every heart
5 posted 2003-07-27 04:58 PM


Peter, you may be interested that due to your posts, Ron has initiated a few changes so people know EXACTLY what to expect when they don't read the fine, though font size 12 print.

We don't DO suicide here.

We explore the ramifications of same; we show the consequences of same; we offered you, time and again, chances to place your poetry where it belongs, when overly dark and seriously explicit, into Insights or other Mature Forums.

We have recently welcomed very new, young members to our Open Boards.  We have never failed to ask ANY of our members, when they have crossed the guidelines, to please refer to the guidelines, and post accordingly.

Witchhunt?  Sorry.  I do not think anyone here ever felt that we have hunted down anyone.  Watch, perhaps, because some folks change their e-mails so much we can't always stay on top of their most current address; just as our members don't read all of their mail.  

Yes, Peter, you are right and Ron gave you exactly that language.  If this is, and I feel it is, another post for attention, well, you have received same.  

You know what?  You have not been "banned", Peter.  And that HAS been done.  Perhaps Ron was giving you, yet again, one last chance.

Unfortunately for you, you have another path to take.

Be well, write well.

Enjoy whatever new home you find.

[This message has been edited by Sunshine (07-27-2003 05:26 PM).]

Wind
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981

6 posted 2003-07-27 05:27 PM


Byebye. nothing personal
Toad
Member
since 2002-06-16
Posts 161

7 posted 2003-07-27 05:35 PM



Peter,

What would you suggest the witch finder general did once the hubble bubble merchant has been found?

A Talk to them and ask them to moderate their antisocial behaviour
B Burn them at the nearest stake
C Ignore them and put up with a few spell casualties

Let’s say the witch finder general decided to talk to them, but what if the wicked witches of the north-east simply ignore him. What would you suggest he do then?

A Try the talking method again?
B Burn them at the nearest stake
C Ignore them and put up with a few spell casualties

Let’s go with the first one again but supposing this doesn’t work, what does he do then?

A Try the talking method again?
B Burn them at the nearest stake
C Tell them they’ll get a dunking every time they so much as look like they’ve cast a spell

If you answered AAC to the above you’ll have some idea of the hoops Ron has jumped through to make room for the witches at this site, personally I’d have been reaching for the gasoline after the first A.

Fortunately though this isn’t a witch-hunt, if you decide to leave it will be exactly that – you deciding to leave. The torch bearing crowds and witch finder general are just a fairy tale. PIP is in fact a witch friendly zone, all Ron asks is that they refrain from trying to turn younger members into toads.

As a side note – you don’t happen to know any toad to prince spells do you?

littlewing
Member Rara Avis
since 2003-03-02
Posts 9655
New York
8 posted 2003-07-27 05:42 PM


Peter,
I am a Moderator and have had
my own writes in review
Why?
BECAUSE THEY CROSSED THE GUIDELINES
What have I done?
KEPT WRITING

nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200
Between the Lines
9 posted 2003-07-27 06:29 PM


Toad to the rescue, once again

Would be nice if someone could turn you into a "prince of a guy" huh?

But maybe you already are and just don't know it.

M

Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612
Hurricane Alley
10 posted 2003-07-27 07:27 PM


I think that Toad needs to be kissed!

Wind
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981

11 posted 2003-07-27 08:01 PM


witch friendly zone lucky for me
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738

12 posted 2003-07-27 08:13 PM


Lucky for ME too.



Blessed be.

Nightshade
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 2001-08-31
Posts 13962
just out of reach
13 posted 2003-07-27 08:19 PM


Yikes! I have been known to cast a few spells of my own.
What was the question?
Oh..sorry yes..ummm....

Wind
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981

14 posted 2003-07-27 08:32 PM


poof..I'm a brat, porch puppy, witch, and ghost..all in one
Kellie_Cantrell
Senior Member
since 2002-05-22
Posts 1667
New York
15 posted 2003-07-28 12:22 PM


Peter- This site is family friendly.

                   Love,
             xXx~*KELLIE*~xXx
*My poetry website
http://www.freewebs.com/poettree/

risingphoenix
New Member
since 2003-07-01
Posts 8

16 posted 2003-07-28 02:57 AM


This seems like a poor way to treat a fellow member, I can understand what he means when he says corrupt.  After all how are we to know what the moderators do?  

Maybe he hasn't been banned as one person said but he has been isolated and told that for him the rules will be enforced with the speed of a jackhammer.

The more I read about this the more I am put off posting, especially when one of my poems was recently pulled for a reason claiming it glorified drugs when it didn't.  Having sent in my case I got a reply that said an administrator was looking into it, that was FIVE DAYS ago.  I am uncertain as to whether my work is allowed here anymore too.

Sorry guys but from my very miniscule experiences here I am with this guy over this issue.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738

17 posted 2003-07-28 04:29 AM


rising phoenix?

There is one sure way to know what the moderators are doing. That MIGHT consist of completing the requirements to become a Deputy Moderator.

Read the guidelines. Stick around. Volunteer to help wash a few dishes in this party house sponsored by "no-one".

(His name is Ron Carnell, btw.)

I love Peter's work and told him so--but?
I also love what Ron is accomplishing.

If that makes me a butt kissing fool?
Somebody hand me a tissue before I kiss you.



I will miss Peter. But I can and will attest that there is NO witchhunt.

I know.

I'm a witch.



Peter? NO offense meant and none taken.

NOT every thing is for everybody.

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA
18 posted 2003-07-28 06:59 AM


Risingphoenix - Your first post having been pulled for similar reasons, and the fact that you and Peter ARE one and the same person, proves that we're not on a witch hunt for Peter/you, but rather moderating his/your poetry.

Your "ultimate final" post has been edited as well.

Good luck in your endeavors.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738

19 posted 2003-07-28 07:07 AM


Nan? Thanks for the kleenex.


Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554

20 posted 2003-07-28 09:01 AM


ROFLMAO ....

When will they learn that the Wizard can see ALL from behind the golden curtain...after all he built the house.


Either come in--or go out...but close the door--youre letting bugs in.

"How could I stand here with you and not be moved by you."

LH

Wind
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981

21 posted 2003-07-28 09:07 AM


same person? sigh..i liked both of them... so did you leave or are you staying as a different person? I am very confused. I can't tell if you want to stay, or are trying to tell us in various forms that this place is corrupt.
risingphoenix
New Member
since 2003-07-01
Posts 8

22 posted 2003-07-28 09:27 AM


I have no idea what you mean, I only read two of this guys poems, otherwise I do not know of him, in fact I have looked up at his profile and it says England, I am not from that country so cannot be the same person.  

I am from Denmark (of English descent, parents moved out here about 25 years ago) and have not even visited England for well over five years, so I cannot be the same person, whatever grounds you have to accuse me of this, rest assured that it is purely coincidental.

PhaerieChild
Senior Member
since 1999-08-30
Posts 1787
Aloha, Oregon
23 posted 2003-07-28 09:33 AM


Peter,
If you're leaving, then get gone. If all you wanna do is snivel, then by all means go somewhere else. Whether you like it or not this is still Ron's site and it is not up to you to change the rules. His house, his rules. Not happy?? Open your own and snivel there!!!

Wind
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981

24 posted 2003-07-28 09:36 AM


From what I've heard, administrators have the ability to identify your  ISP. if yours is identical to Peter's, unless you live in Winnipeg (which you just confirmed you do not) it is not likely that you would have an identical isp to Peter's. They have their ways of finding out.

Personaly, I liked your first poem. I hold no grudges

[This message has been edited by Wind (07-28-2003 09:40 AM).]

Miah
Senior Member
since 2002-08-26
Posts 1062
Pennsylvania
25 posted 2003-07-28 10:04 AM


serenity said:

"If that makes me a butt kissing fool?
Somebody hand me a tissue before I kiss you."

ROFL  thanks for the visual..lol


Peter,

There have been a lot of people that posted their complaints about having there post pulled.  I am sure your not the only one.  The fact is, this is a family site, as you noticed when you signed up you did not have to be 18 to enter.  Ron created mature content for such things.  sigh...you can't please everyone, if you think the grass is greener on the other side then go for it.  If not you need to respect the wishes of the owner of this site.  Again, good luck in all you do.



littlewing
Member Rara Avis
since 2003-03-02
Posts 9655
New York
26 posted 2003-07-28 10:25 AM


Goodbye Peter phoenix
risingphoenix
New Member
since 2003-07-01
Posts 8

27 posted 2003-07-28 11:09 AM


I have just been directly accused of being this opther user by the very head of this sight, in a very offensive e:mail he basically said that this user had no more excuses and that they wouldn't waste time.

Well with advertisement like that to a new user I just don't know how you lot can stay here.  I don't know why I am being accused, if it's IP then all I can say is that somehow things are going wrong as I am not in the same country.

But I think I may have to follow this person's lead since apparently I am that user and therefore not worthy of moderation either.

I do find it interesting when you lot say follow the rules.  I have just read a poem in 'fdark poetry #3' that is about someone wishing to die in what seems like a motorcycle crash.  With great emphasis on hot pipes lancing into their body and so on.  While this maybe a symbolism of a struggle at life or whatever it was far more blatantly a vioilation of the rules, yet THAT POST is apparently ok to the mods.

This kind of bias only further fuels the fires that make your site appear corrupt and unfair.  You can't go around saying obey the rules if some are allowed to get away with it even without things being pulled.

I have hardly been here two minutes and sudenly I am on a blacklist for being opulled.  This kind of unfairness is unecessary.

I offer this:

Abandoned, destroy, violated,
Thrown onto the fire,
Left to bear the hatred,
Of the one who owns the pyre.

Targeted, watched, burned,
Hated, berated, spurned,
Murdered, betrayed, decieved,
Outcast, Ignored, disbelieved.

The true policy of this place,
Targeting those with shadow's face,
Raising anger within the wound,
Watch you leave, discontinued.

FNG, die on the flames,
Taste the ignorant,
Believe not your argument,
I am far too arrogant.

Well to this I turn my back,
Walking to the shadows place,
Shaking my head at the ones who lack,
The courage, to turn on this corrupted face.


I too shall walk free of here, the moderator are not worthy of seeing my work and they shall not, I can be an ignorant person too, how does it feel?

Wind
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981

28 posted 2003-07-28 11:18 AM


sorry it "has" to end this way

insanity is not a crime

Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354
Listening to every heart
29 posted 2003-07-28 11:35 AM


Peter phoenix, even your style of writing tells us that you are trying to be a sheep in wolf's clothing.  We offered our friendship, our rules & guidelines, even our understanding.

A new member, such as rising phoenix, would not and could not be so apt as to take up Peter Marcroft's crusade if he were not privy to all of the past happenings.  

I wish you well, Sir.

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554

30 posted 2003-07-28 11:38 AM


how does it feel?
well, since you asked ...

.... like I'm watching a re-run of Peter's long winded, Ron bashing, moderator hating, disrespectful, egostistical, drama queen exit.


nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200
Between the Lines
31 posted 2003-07-28 11:55 AM


it seems like either/or both/one  can't seem to leave here and just stay away...continually posting poetry on your/their exit.

Just the fact that this has remained on here condemning many  besides the  moderators and owner seems to show that if  they wanted to... and were as  corrupt as you describe them to be, they would just delete you as if you never existed...and be done with it.

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669
Michigan, US
32 posted 2003-07-28 12:19 PM


risingphoenix said:  
quote:
I have no idea what you mean, I only read two of this guys poems, otherwise I do not know of him, in fact I have looked up at his profile and it says England, I am not from that country so cannot be the same person.

When risingphoenix had a poem pulled about a week ago, he wrote the Moderator who pulled it with a defense of the poem's content. No problem there, of course. But he, uh, forgot to remove his name from the email header, so it came in as "Peter james Marcroft" risingphoenix@something.com

With that rather blatant clue (sic) staring us in the face, we checked the IP addresses and weren't terribly surprised to find them coming from the same ISP. As Nan alluded, this was something of a vindication of our methods. The Moderators didn't know that risingphoenix was Peter J Marcroft when the poem was pulled, proving that any witch hunt wasn't against him, but against offensive poetry.

Having a poem or two pulled isn't a big deal. When we tackle certain subjects, we take a risk and can only hope that our writing ability is equal to our ambition. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, and the author often isn't the best judge of that. Taking risks is a good thing. When the poet makes a habit of posting poems that need to ultimately be pulled, it starts to become a bit more of a problem. When they refuse to listen, the problem escalates. Our Moderators are all volunteers, and I won't have them spending an inordinate amount of time reviewing the work of one author. I'd much rather see them writing. It's only happened about five times in four years, but at some point I ask them to stop wasting their time on someone apparently unwilling to listen. No more emails, no more warnings, no more long discussions on every poem. Pull posts as needed, then get on with more important things. That's the corner into which Peter managed to paint himself.

And you know, it's still not a real big deal. It's simply a procedure we follow, one that after four years has become pretty routine.

Lying to me, on the other hand, is a big deal.

"Is it my fault," risingphoenix wrote to me this morning, "That more than one person in the world shares the same forename and surname?" And the same middle initial? And the same ISP, even though allegedly in two different countries? Yea, right.

I dislike lies, and I REALLY dislike it when someone thinks we're all stupid. And as many of you have noticed over the years, I go just a little spastic when people feel the need to threaten. In a second letter this morning, risingphoenix wrote (in part):

"I know lots of scandanavian poets who were looking into finding publication placres on the net to recieve some kind of feedback on their work. Rest assured that I will be sending a copy of this e:mail to all of them and that I shall be advertising your site negatively. I could have brought you hundreds of users, well now I will onyl drive them away and I think they too will drive away their friends, and the chain will go on and on."

I have no problem with border-line posts, I welcome criticism, but I will not tolerate lies and threats (even empty ones).

Peter is history.

This time, really.  

Toad
Member
since 2002-06-16
Posts 161

33 posted 2003-07-28 12:27 PM


You forgot to mention one thing Ron...

Did he know the toad to prince spell?



[This message has been edited by Toad (07-28-2003 12:29 PM).]

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738

34 posted 2003-07-28 12:54 PM


I agree.

He just sorta petered out.


littlewing
Member Rara Avis
since 2003-03-02
Posts 9655
New York
35 posted 2003-07-28 02:41 PM


ba - pa - cha . . .

*Karen exits the stage*

Titia Geertman
Member Ascendant
since 2001-05-07
Posts 5182
Netherlands
36 posted 2003-07-28 07:37 PM



I'm not religious but I think it's time to say "Amen" and get on with what we're here for....writing poetry !!!

Thank you Ron for the patience you showed here.

Titia

Like scattered leaves...my words will flow

suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 1999-07-29
Posts 20723
Louisiana
37 posted 2003-07-29 05:02 PM


Ron: I can only say my hat's off to you... you have more patience than Job himself!
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767
Southern Abstentia
38 posted 2003-07-30 12:09 PM


I feel so left out now.

I've never had a poem pulled.  And I've never been Peter J. Marcoft.  And I never said that I was leaving to troll for responses.  And I never wasted so many pixels in my life.

So many things I've never done.

I'm going to lose my reputation.  

suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 1999-07-29
Posts 20723
Louisiana
39 posted 2003-07-30 10:43 AM


But Reb... you're not totally without charm. *cheeky grin*
peter marcroft
Unregistered
New Member
Posts 1

40 posted 2004-01-07 02:45 PM


Boo!  You cannot kill what does not live, gone forever?  I go where I choose, I offered to bury our differences as a good christian would, you failed to listen, but rifts are sad and I am not here to cause trouble merely to plea for a chance to redeem myself.

I made some offensive comments and my bitterness made me many enemies.  I do not want that, I want to be given the chance to show myself as the poet I am, rather than scar myself with these ridiculously bitter posts that I have made in the past.

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669
Michigan, US
41 posted 2004-01-07 03:18 PM


I'm glad to hear you feel that way, Peter. No hard feelings on this end, I assure you.

However, your chance to redeem yourself will have to come in the form of taking what you learned from this incident and applying it to the NEXT web site you choose to frequent. While I harbor no animosity, you pretty much used up your quota of second chances around here. I wish you the best of luck.

peter marcroft
Unregistered
New Member
Posts 4

42 posted 2004-01-07 03:51 PM


If you truly had no hard feelings you would let go if this judgemental attitude and allow me back.

It has been six months, it is not six days.  Coming back here has meant that I have had to swallow alot of pride, not an easy thing for anyone to do.  

All I am asking is to be given a clean slate and the chance to post again.  I am not asking for forgiveness, I am not asking for you to suddenly proclaim that everything is all right, because it is isn't.  But my eyes have been opened over this exceptionally long period of abstinence and I want to be given the chance to try again, please give me that chance, I ask for no more.

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669
Michigan, US
43 posted 2004-01-07 04:09 PM


But you're still trying to lie to us, Peter. And apparently you still think everyone in the world is stupid.

You cannot post easily in these forums under two different usernames without the software being aware of it. Of course, I expect you to deny it as you did in the past, and maybe claim that Wayfarer lives in another country, but your tactics didn't work six months ago and they won't work now. Sadly, you've seemingly learned very little.

peter marcroft
Unregistered
New Member
Posts 4

44 posted 2004-01-07 04:53 PM


I got tired of being exiled, but I also knew of how you would come out with your 'You've blown all your chances' thing.

I want to try with one username, I want to go back to the start.  yes I've done things that are wrong.

But I ask to be allowed back purely so that I can show you how much I have learnt.  Unless of course you have not learnt how to forgive.  If that is the case then I am sad for you.

I want to just be given the chance, I ask for nothing else in return, I just want the chance to try again.  Why won;t you let me?  Is it pride interfering?  Is it genuine concern?  I don't know what it is, but from one christian to another I ask you to forgive and let us try from the start once more.

peter marcroft
Unregistered
New Member
Posts 4

45 posted 2004-01-07 05:05 PM


I am simply asking to be given the chanca, no more lies, no more pain.  I am an artist and I wish to express it.

I have said my due, if you are unable to lay aside your problems then all I can do is apologise to everyone on your behalf.

I Have ocme here today and emerged from the shadows.  I didn't have to, I didn't have to ask your permission and be given a chance again.  I could have carried on under the alias and had no truck with it.

I want to be given  a chance, otherwise I would have continued to lie.  I am not a traitor and if you decide the final answer is no then I shall walk away from here.

But by doing so you will have shown how you are unable to accept a genuine peace offering and the chance for someone to lay aside their grievances.  I want this to end Ron, I want this stand off, this feud to be buried.  And I am pleaing with you to play the game with me here, to lay aside what happened.  

I leave it to you, I'll expect your answer at some time, I have nothing more to say.  I ahve asked and I have pleaded.  I have taken responsibility and generally been a man, I ask the same of you.

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669
Michigan, US
46 posted 2004-01-07 05:38 PM


Sigh.

Had you been more upfront in your first post today, I might be more inclined to trust your sincerity. It might have made a difference. Probably not enough, I'll admit, because by sneaking in the backdoor as Wayfarer you showed you still don't respect what WE want, only what YOU want. Actions speak louder than words, and I just don't need people around me who feel our rules exist only to be circumvented.

Lack of forgiveness has absolutely nothing to do with my decision, Peter. I long ago forgave my ex for any problems we had, but that certainly doesn't mean I intend to revisit those problems by letting her back into my life. Second chances are good. Fifth and sixth chances are just masochistic. At some point, it's simply time to move on.

I, nonetheless, still wish you well and hope you'll find a place more in harmony with your own philosophies.

Greeneyes
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In Your Poetic Mind
47 posted 2004-01-07 05:41 PM


is this kinda like wanting something you cant have??  personally I hope he locks this thread....
peter marcroft
Unregistered
New Member
Posts 4

48 posted 2004-01-07 05:54 PM


Well I am not surprised, yet again you choose the easy way out.  

Well I tried, I tried to be fair, I tried to reasonable, but it seems it is not enough.  I don't know Ron, maybe it is because you can't face your mistakes but either way it does you no credit.  I am not the only one who has tried to get back and have a PROPER second chance.  Who has tried to heal the rift and let go, but yet everytime you have chosen to band and exile people.  

I wanted to share my new material, I wanted to be given a fresh start.  Well fine I guess I will have to walk another path.  But We will not disappear Ron, even YOU make mistakes, it is time you faced them

Cpat Hair
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793

49 posted 2004-01-07 06:15 PM


Interesting in some ways... to know that there is only so much anyone can do to keep another off this sight without completely locking it down and doing some sort of "background" check on who was allowed to enter and who was not. Even then the chance exists that those who have been asked or told to leave could and probably some determined soul would find ways to re-enter.

I personally used to think this a safe place to share poetry and to be among people who were tolerant as well as peaceful. I have no beefs with the way it is run or with someone checking my words to see if they are deemed offensive for the general populace... if they are not, then havng it pulled creates no stress for me, I would simply find another venue to display it in if I chose..or rewrite it to not be as offensive..or find the forum here it fit..

I do find it to be an issue for me.. to think that some here support the ones banned and actually aid them in gaining access to the things posted and or in generally creating an atmosphere of discontent and unfairness..

Ron owns,to my knowledge, this sight and it is in his house I come from time to time and offer a few words. Words that have been misunderstood at times, turned into something ugly at times in people's minds..when it was never my intent for them to be so. Unfortunately, Ron's house has a screen door and it doesn't keep out all he would like at times... still he keeps a pretty clean house, so I take my shoes off at the door and respect the things he says are rules and try to respect as well the people he empowered to help monitor those rules.
It's the screen door thing however, and past experiences which leaves me now holding my shoes when I enter... ready to run if I have to.

Peter... I wish you well where ever you go... and the "WE" you refer to as well...
I simply never understood why anyone wanted to be or tried to be where they were not wanted... and sometimes even the most saintly of us wear out a welcome...

Ron.. thank you for the years I've spent here and the forums to post...

and for all the ones who have left or been asked to leave..or told to leave.. and still lurk around or have someone else on the sight
feeding you posts or festering resentments..

well.. (and ron you can edit this if you need to)...

they can kiss my ass...


Greeneyes
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50 posted 2004-01-07 06:32 PM


LMAO thats great.....well it is!!!!

~~**~~
This morning theres a calm I cant explain
By the time I recognize this moment it will be gone,  
I will bend light pretending it lingers on

KristieSue
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51 posted 2004-01-07 07:07 PM


Unfortunately, Ron's house has a screen door and it doesn't keep out all he would like at times...

Yeah, I think Ron's screen door has a hole in it...

you're awesome Cpat...lmao

Failure isn't failure if a lesson from it is learned ~ KS

RSWells
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52 posted 2004-01-07 08:23 PM


Where's your pride man? This was annoying enough 6 months ago.


Why do some men (I've not seen a woman do it here yet) feel compelled to make a pathetic gesture of "leaving?" I suspect it is to elicit sympathy and a craving for someone of the female persuasion to grab their leg.

Go quietly as I do from time to time.

Sunshine
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53 posted 2004-01-07 08:26 PM


Welcome home, Richard.
Duncan
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54 posted 2004-01-07 08:43 PM


Chuckling...to quote a friend.

serenity blaze
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55 posted 2004-01-07 08:50 PM



Titia Geertman
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56 posted 2004-01-07 08:58 PM


What amazes me Peter, in your so called sincerety, is that you pulled out this long forgotten thread from the archives to plea you're case of returning here.

If I had been you and as sincere as you claim to be, I just had mailed Ron a quiet letter, explaining and asking for a second chance.

But no, you didn't, you had to drag out all the trash first in order to be sure to have an audience again. In my opinion you're nothing but a spoiled child, who thinks NO isn't an answer. And in stead of acting sincere, you're playing the same silly game again, by trying to sneak in the wrong way.

I think you've used up more than your credit here Peter, time to move on, go bother someone else.

Titia

Like scattered leaves...my words will flow

Christopher
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57 posted 2004-01-07 09:20 PM


at the risk of doing so myself, i feel confident that one of the reasons some people choose to behave in this way, is because they get a "kick" out of seeing others scurry in response.

i think the best way to deal, is to...

i g n o r e   t h e m.


don't support the behaviour by responding to it.


Balladeer
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58 posted 2004-01-07 09:33 PM


...which is exactly why I haven't responded to this thread...
Mysteria
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59 posted 2004-01-07 09:36 PM


Me either
Duncan
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60 posted 2004-01-07 09:37 PM


C...I strongly subscribe to the same school of thought, however it's been my experience, that some do not "get" being ignored any more than they "get" being reasoned with or treated fairly.
This behavior has a deep effect on those directly involved and I am glad to see it being spoken about in the "light of day".


KristieSue
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61 posted 2004-01-07 09:47 PM


Let it be known...

I have not and will not respond to Peter.  What goes on in that situation is between he and Ron.  But I had to respond to Cpat LOL

Failure isn't failure if a lesson from it is learned ~ KS

Sunshine
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62 posted 2004-01-07 10:15 PM


...and we all want Cpat to know that he is as important to this site as any of those who came here from the first day.

Cpat...

you have all of us with you.

Ron
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63 posted 2004-01-07 10:21 PM


quote:
Interesting in some ways... to know that there is only so much anyone can do to keep another off this sight without completely locking it down

It is a battle at times, Ron, and it's not one I particularly want to fight. I actually HAVE locked down the site a few times, by closing registrations, and I'm sure I'll do it again. "Big" has never been our goal, and I find no personal satisfaction in racking up high numbers. If we have to turn away people to maintain quality, then we’ll turn away people.

Those who manage to sneak in through a backdoor eventually are discovered, though.

I would never have noticed Wayfarer's IP address today had he not had a poem pulled for questionable content. In reading the poem, only a short time after Peter's first post and my first answer, I recognized the same predilection for senseless violence that got Peter in trouble six months ago. I simply put two and two together and did some checking. Was it just luck? Perhaps, but I'd like to think we don't ban people for frivolous or unsubstantiated reasons, and those reasons don't go away just because they get a new username. They inevitably do exactly what got them in trouble the first time, making it pretty easy to make two and two add up to four.

When they are discovered, as I think they always are, my recourse is always the same. I systematically track down every post, every reply, every footprint they've left on the site and delete them. They no longer exist, and all the time and effort they invested in thwarting our system is wasted. Very few are willing to waste it again and again.

In the nearly five years these doors have been open, we’ve banned relatively few people, but all of those seem to fall within one of three groups. Most are what I call drive-bys. The come, they raise a ruckus, then they go. A few have been angry rebels. They push the boundaries just because there ARE boundaries, and when they eventually push too hard, they’re asked to leave. Most do, though seldom without a few choice words in parting. Angry rebels don’t generally suffer their outrage quietly.  

The third group is the scary one.

Some few people, and thankfully they have been few, are in very serious need of counseling. They are often paranoid, always self-righteous, and too frequently they become obsessed with both the Internet and, more specifically, with our forums. One woman, for month after month after month, tried to get into the forums nearly every single day, often several times a day, even though I closed every door soon after she found it. That’s not determination, that’s psychotic obsession. She needs help, desperately, and there’s not a damn thing I can do to convince her. Except, perhaps, deny her the substitute for help these forums for a time gave her.

For what it’s worth, and only in my opinion, there are currently two people active in the forums right now who would be much better served in a hospital. One is a banned Member, with a truly evil temper and a penchant for hurting people with her words, who has managed to sneak in with a new ISP. The other is a relatively new Member who has already had altercations with half a dozen others, but has so far been careful to limit her rants to private email. Neither, I believe, is fully responsible for the way she acts, but both will nonetheless be held accountable. Soon enough, they will be gone.

Only to be replaced by others just like them. Nothing ever gets easier, all of us need to be careful. There are bears in them there woods.

quote:
I do find it to be an issue for me.. to think that some here support the ones banned and actually aid them in gaining access to the things posted and or in generally creating an atmosphere of discontent and unfairness..

Me, too. They take what we have to offer, but refuse to give what we ask of them in return. I think Winona Ryder got arrested for something very similar? It’s hard to respect someone who straddles the gorge, lacking both the courage of their convictions and the integrity of their promises, unwilling to either stand or walk away. They’ll discover, I suspect, that straddling a yawning hole in the Earth is a good way to fall into one. If they can’t make a choice, they’ll find it made for them. They’ll be outed. And ousted.

The American judicial system is often criticized for protecting the rights of the criminal. Unfortunately, that seems to be the necessary cost of protecting the rights of the innocent. It’s frustrating that, in trying to be fair to those who don’t deserve it, we are often unfair to those who don’t deserve that either. Trouble is, that’s the only way that works.

I sincerely believe that in time everyone always gets what they do deserve, though. Patience isn’t just a virtue. Sometimes, it’s a survival trait.  

Balladeer
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64 posted 2004-01-07 10:39 PM


sorta like "Time wounds all heels", Ron?
Alicat
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65 posted 2004-01-07 10:43 PM


Very appropriate Spoonerism there, 'deer.
Cpat Hair
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66 posted 2004-01-08 08:52 AM


Ron.. it is the third group which concerns me the most. They are as you say in need of serious counseling or medical help. To stalk or hound a person or a place is an obsessive behavior pattern that not only indicates the person needs help, but is at times a threat to others. Such behavior when it is aided or enabled and encouraged by others can spiral completely out of the realms of mere annoyance or unpleasantness into situations where people genuinely get hurt.

People are People, and some are good, some are bad, and some are disturbed and need help... too bad that there are sides drawn when someone is banned and the ones who need help are further dragged into mindless chaos by some who would use the situation for excitement in their lives, or to settle old scores, or simply to think and feel like they are in control.
In my humble opinion... those who work from the inside or behind the scenes to stir such people and such situation up..are truly a sorry lot of self absorbed and self important people who would like to think themselves above the norm....

I appreciate this place, and the work you and the people you have empowered to help you do everyday to make it the kind of place it is. I personally am a bit gun shy right now about posting and interacting, but I'm here and I do appreciate all you have done.

that screen door..lol.. I know about the screen doors.. sometimes they just let the no-see-ums in and they bite....

Nightshade
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just out of reach
67 posted 2004-01-08 10:37 AM


  to what Cpat. said.
Midnitesun
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68 posted 2004-01-08 12:08 PM


I've avoided any comment until now, but am thankful our wizard is the keeper of the keys and locks. Thank you, Ron.

It's sad when someone feels they need to try to 'break in' after violating house rules, when all they ever had to do to be to be invited and to stay was to follow some very basic rules of respect.
As for Capt? even when you have do it 'hit and run' style, its a pleasure to read you.
And it's also great to have Richard pop in here.

Mysteria
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69 posted 2004-01-08 02:10 PM


I couldn't agree with Ron C more on all counts in what he said here,as sometimes I just love to argue with him.  The third group of people he mentioned are NOT responsible for how they act, but we really have to stop encouraging them, and aiding in their activities in here.  They are sick, and fueling their fire is not a way to help them.  If members in here take from Ron the space they require to post poetry, or interact with friends, then they certainly shouldn't turn around and violate that respect he gives you, by aiding in any disruption in these forums.  That is what anyone is doing who encourages their obsessions at these forums.  These folks will be gone eventually, but what is it doing to your reputation if you stay here  and have bitten the very hand that feeds you?  Others will take their place, but if you want to help these people, don't encourage their obsessions. They are hurting themselves more than others that has to be clear to those helping them.

As for the person currently being discussed, he will probably be one in many if the doors are not closed to new members, and just like those before him, he will go, and more will come, so Ron thank you for cleaning up after them.

This has turned into a rather wholesome, friendly community of poets and in order to keep it that way, we all must be open and honest and report directly any infractions to the Administration of the site, not encourage it, or hide it.  To state the bottom line here, Ron doesn't need this, and if we want this to remain the site it is, we must all do our small part in keeping it the fine site that it is.

I certainly appreciate this site, and have something to show my granddaughter when she comes over, to teach her that the written word is a wonderful thing, more wonderful than television.      

Now let's all write some wonderful poetry?

Again, thank you Ron for all you do, and hopefully the two existing members will read this and get the help they so desperately need.

Ron T - that screen door..lol.. I know about the screen doors.. sometimes they just let the no-see-ums in and they bite....

Ron, I had a stalker encounter on the internet, and it scared the life out of me.  It turned out the kid (not a man,) was out of New York, and he was just a kid.  Until I got that information from your police down there, I lived in fear constantly of what I assumed was a nasty man, because I allowed it.  If I had to do it again, I would have reported it instantly, giving names, and all the data I could to get rid of him faster.  If I had reported his ISP to the carrier, they would have taken away his connection.  The site I was at then didn't want to help me at all, and that is NOT The case here, Ron cares about this site, and the people on it.  That is why I am here and intend to stay here, and enjoy what it stands for and represents on this crazy internet.

I now know if the holes in the screen door are too big, carry Raid!   It is good to get it out in the open and get this behind us all here.


Dr.Moose1
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Bewilderment , USA
70 posted 2004-01-28 09:09 PM


Pete,
Let's see, you're ticked off because you cannot post certain writings because they violate site code,
you're more ticked off because you feel this site has singled you out as a "bad" element.
You're even more ticked off because???? (no one elses' writings are promoting suicide, and getting away with it?)
Let's have another run at this,
Ya signed up. Ya agreed to the format.
ya bent "da rules" ya got your pinkies slapped( boo-hoo!). Sorry pal, I've had the "asterisk police" after me, and let me tell ya, ya don't wanna be messin' with that bunch, but,you go where you feel it's necessary, you write what you feel, and everyone on this site will back you up,
but just not here. Done ramblin'.
Doc

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