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 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
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Passions in Poetry

The Great (Half) White Hope

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Ron
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25 posted 01-11-2009 04:58 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I've yet to hear anyone cite which Guideline Ringo's post breaches? Even Karen, when she clicked the Inappropriate Link, said, "I don't think it actually breaks any rules."

quote:
Why donít you just move the thread to the Mod forum - chew the cud for as long as it takes - then let the person who complained and the original poster know why you are, or arenít, letting the post stay.

That still happens, Grinch, but I try to discourage it. It's a bit like arresting someone and holding them for 72 hours without charging them; it's legal, but it never feels entirely kosher, especially when it happens to you.

I think 95 percent of the time, a thread that has to be moved (or removed) is acted upon quickly and decisively. When something is inappropriate, generally everyone knows it's inappropriate. In the other five percent of the cases, when discussion drag on for hours or even days, the thread rarely gets moved at all. Its worst offense was that it made a few people feel uncomfortable.

In my opinion, this is one of those threads.
Balladeer
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26 posted 01-11-2009 05:00 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I can assure you, Jenn, that your lack of respect for me causes no sleepless nights on my part and I doubt that it does for any other of the moderators you freely show disrespect for. If your views are not agreed with, you attack with insults and innuendos, as you are doing here....and you complain that you are not taken more seriously. Respect works both ways...
serenity blaze
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27 posted 01-11-2009 05:14 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I'd like to qualify that.

I just couldn't find a box to check, Ron.

Respect and Tolerance would be the problem here.

And that is subjective.

Marge Tindal
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28 posted 01-11-2009 05:14 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

Yep, ... makes me feel "uncomfortable" alright~

Maybe we need to add a Can O' Worms Forum~

Surely this one would fit in there and it could even be one of those "Locked" Forums ... and if you don't like worms ... you don't need to go there~

Ron ... I do think that several of the posters feel that it could step on the toes of the loss of Respect and Tolerance guideline~

Personally, I feel it doesn't show RESPECT and ... my TOLERANCE is stretched to the breaking point with the belief that it may have been a (Half)-hearted attempt at humor on Ringo's part~

Oh well ... not everyone can do stand up comedy and remain standing~
INCLUDING ME

My vote is for Inappropriate based on my interpretation of that guideline~
serenity blaze
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29 posted 01-11-2009 05:15 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

and um "Even Karen"???

Sheesh.

serenity blaze
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30 posted 01-11-2009 05:16 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Ha!

*slaps Margie* a high five!

Balladeer
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31 posted 01-11-2009 05:23 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

marge, your stand-uo comedy is always a hit with me
JenniferMaxwell
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32 posted 01-11-2009 05:35 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Balladeer, how much respect do you have for a person who tells blatant, harmful lies about you or a person who mocks and belittles your race, religion or ethnic background? Donít you do the exactly what you accuse me of doing, attack with insults and innuendos, and Iíll add sarcasm to the list just to round it out,  when someone disagrees with you? That post I was referring to was a perfect example of your doing everything on that list and the original post in this thread is nothing more than poorly disguised racism which, in my book, is a flagrant violation of the Respect and Tolerance guidelines.


Mysteria
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33 posted 01-11-2009 05:37 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Well when I read this post, uncomfortable didn't come to mind actually Ron as much as unpatriotic, disrespectful, racist, inaccurate, hateful, and bordering on defamation, not to mention in very poor taste.  Was it because it was Barack Obama, the future president, no, was it because it joked about his color, yes!  I immediately went to Membership Agreement and didn't find an infraction in those five rules but on reading the legal stuff below I thought I had, and here is what that said"

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use PipTalk Poetry Forums to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."  I figures it was in violation of that alone, if we didn't have a rule in place to govern racial slurs.

Now with this link you have provided       I see that I am allowed to not like something posted, or someone can dislike something I post, as long as it is within the guidelines.  If I am governed by those six rules then no I can't find any "rule" that has been violated except this:

"Think before you post and make darn sure you can be as proud of your words in five years as you were when you wrote them. You are creating a legacy and should treat it as such."

Just be thankful this post was not about the Irish     See my point?
Balladeer
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34 posted 01-11-2009 05:50 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

the original post in this thread is nothing more than poorly disguised racism which, in my book, is a flagrant violation of the Respect and Tolerance guidelines.

That's fine. You may name it anything you like in your book, Jennifer. The mods who have posted here don't think it goes that far. Neither does Ron. His words do actually carry some weight here and, as you well know, he is not one to abuse his authority. No, you don't need to agree with any of them but remember, that in the DM forum, we sometimes have discussions and differences of opinion that require quite an array of viewpoints and the ultimate decision may be reached by a consensus vote. If the vote goes against your views you simply have to suck it up and move on. That has happened to all of us. Make sure you are capable of that before thinking about joining it.
Grinch
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35 posted 01-11-2009 05:59 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
In my opinion, this is one of those threads.


Personally I donít think the original post is worth all the possible hassle and bickering itĎs likely to cause, but itís your site Ron and your call.

quote:
The mods who have posted here don't think it goes that far.


Has Mysteria been demoted Mike?



quote:
Well when I read this post, uncomfortable didn't come to mind actually Ron as much as unpatriotic, disrespectful, racist, inaccurate, hateful, and bordering on defamation, not to mention in very poor taste.
Ron
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36 posted 01-11-2009 06:04 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Did you know that James Madison, our fourth President and the "Father of the Constitution," was only five feet, four inches tall and weighed in at about 100 pounds?

I'm not sure, guys, how pointing that out contravenes Respect and Tolerance?

In an ideal world, a leader's size and color would be nothing but irrelevant trivia. It offends people today, I think, only because race has previously been used as an implied pejorative. Pointing out that Barrack Obama is black is only an insult if you believe being black is an insult. And clearly, no one here believes that.

Moreover, as I've said several times in the past, politicians have voluntarily excluded themselves from most Respect and Tolerance rules. In a culture that depends on the freedom to ridicule our leaders, just about anything short of advocating violence against someone is going to be endured. We either have to stop all the jokes or be willing to abide the few we might personally find distasteful.

I suspect Marge hit the nail on the head. I won't pretend to speak for Ringo, but I suspect he thought he was making a joke, a slight play on words. Poking fun at our politicians is something of a tradition in the United States. Indeed, we have threads in here, I think, devoted to late night comedians slamming Presidential figures? As Marge said, the danger with such comedy, of course, is that when it's not funny it's really not funny. Personally, I think half of the sexual innuendo posted in these forums falls into that category, and ALL of the snide jokes referencing drugs and alcohol. Not having a sense of humor about something isn't against the rules, though.

quote:
and um "Even Karen"??? Sheesh.

Even, as in, you were the one who filed the report, Karen. There's nothing between the lines to read.


JenniferMaxwell
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37 posted 01-11-2009 06:12 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Pointing out someone's height, weight or race isn't necessarily an insult, making a joke out of them because of it is.
serenity blaze
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38 posted 01-11-2009 06:19 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Yep.

And I can admit when I'm wrong, too.

When I said that leaving grafitti up, hoping that it would inspire better slogans was a bad idea? <--paraphrased

I have reconsidered, but only in the particular case of this thread.

I'm so proud of everybody.

Good stuff from good people.

And ciao for now.

(Big Love Marathon tonight.)

Balladeer
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39 posted 01-11-2009 06:31 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No, Grinch. Mysteria has not been demoted and her thoughts and comments are always welcome.

If I am governed by those six rules then no I can't find any "rule" that has been violated except this:

"Think before you post and make darn sure you can be as proud of your words in five years as you were when you wrote them. You are creating a legacy and should treat it as such."


She states she can find no rule violated. Her "except this" is not a rule, it's a call to remind people to make posts they will be proud of....that's it.
Ron
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40 posted 01-11-2009 06:36 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Pointing out someone's height, weight or race isn't necessarily an insult, making a joke out of them because of it is can be.



I don't see the joke, I don't see the insult, either, but in any case, insulting Presidents is allowed.
JenniferMaxwell
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41 posted 01-11-2009 06:43 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

She also said she thought it was a violation of the membership agreement.
JenniferMaxwell
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42 posted 01-11-2009 06:49 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Making fun of someone because of their racial heritage is demeaning to others in the same category.

Balladeer
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43 posted 01-11-2009 06:51 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I do not find where she said that. Perhaps I'm overlooking it? What she DID say was...

I think we have to let this one go, learn from it, move on, and rise above it.


Smart lady...
JenniferMaxwell
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44 posted 01-11-2009 06:55 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

post #33 - the same one you quoted from in 39.
serenity blaze
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45 posted 01-11-2009 07:03 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I hope everybody who finds this offensive and falls under the realm of inappropriate content pops in to say so.

That's the best part for me and the only saving grace to this thread.

and oooops, there's my show!
Ron
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46 posted 01-11-2009 07:07 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Nice try, Jennifer. Were that true, however, (1) any insult you've made against a politician would have to be deleted, and (2), it would have the same exact effect as eliminating the possibility of saying anything negative about a public figure. That's not somewhere America really wants to go.


Balladeer
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47 posted 01-11-2009 07:08 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, Jennifer, she explained what she "figgered", and then qualified it in the next paragraph.

She is entitled to figger anything she likes. As I said before, not everyone even in the DM forum agrees on everything. You seem to be keying on whatever comment of hers you can find to support your thoughts and ignoring everything else she said, like "moving on" and everything that Ron tried to explain, also. So be it...
JenniferMaxwell
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48 posted 01-11-2009 07:23 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Apples and oranges, Balladeer. In one paragraph she was talking about the Membership Agreement, in the other the Rules.

Ron, I'm truly sorry you can't understand how hurtful racial remarks are even when they're supposed to be jokes and I'm very disappointed you've chosen to leave not only this post but two others even more offensive and hurtful in what's supposed to be a "circle of family and friends".

Balladeer
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49 posted 01-11-2009 07:45 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No, Jennifer, that's not what it is SUPPOSED to be. It has always been, and will continue to be, a family of friends. Your discontent will not change that. If you do not feel you are a part of it, then that's regrettable but that won't change it, either.
 
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