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Passions in Poetry

A question on an Anniversary

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Sunshine
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0 posted 11-19-2008 08:59 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


This is just a question that has probably been asked before. I know there are a lot of patriotic poets out there. So the question is: would these words, if spoken today, bear as much weight as they did when first delivered? It is said in many books that the audience was watching the photographer set up his gear; and that Lincoln had finished his speech before many even knew he had given it. Even Lincoln didnít think that the moment, let alone the words, would be long remembered. Now, 145 years later, I remain moved by such a pronouncement concerning our governmentís longevity. Does the mass majority of our citizens remain resolved that no deed shall be done in vain?

quote:
The Gettysburg Address
November 19, 1863

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.

We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
A. Lincoln

Ratleader
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1 posted 11-20-2008 01:10 AM       View Profile for Ratleader   Email Ratleader   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ratleader's Home Page   View IP for Ratleader

My participation in this thread was voluntary.

I un-volunteer.t>

[This message has been edited by Ratleader (11-20-2008 09:57 PM).]

Balladeer
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2 posted 11-20-2008 07:27 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

They would be applauded, followed by a Viagra commercial, and then disregarded.

WHen you look at what the signers of the Declaration went through, knowing that they would, and then look at the what's-in-it-for-me politicians we have today, you will realize that it was a different world then, bearing little resemblance to what we have today. Today we are not driven by Lincolns - we drive them.
Sunshine
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3 posted 11-20-2008 09:44 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I'm afraid that you are both correct, gentlemen. So if those words cannot stand the test[s] of time, then what words could be uttered that would make a difference, if that were indeed possible in this day and age of vast and mass media, as well as improbable and impossible commercials?

Essorant
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4 posted 11-20-2008 03:52 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I think Obama's words are a great example of words that made a difference.  Maybe it took an age for a black man to be elected president, but it shall take an eternity for a mute man to be! That is because the power of communication shall always be most important, as it still is in this age, even though it is taken so much for granted.

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5 posted 11-20-2008 04:06 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

actions speak louder than words as far as I am concerned. The color of his skin does not and will not be what makes him a great president. Have him put his money where his mouth is. I did not vote for him but it is my great hope that he will deliver on his promise of change. I do not believe there are many people in the government worth a darn....it's really really sad when you look at what everyone went through then, to form this nation....and how little it matters to people anymore. Not many are willing to sacrifice for their country. All I see are capable people with their hands out instead of sucking it up and doing the work they need to do.

And the people who are working hard, are carrying the weight of the loosers on their backs while trying to take care of their own families.

Essorant
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6 posted 11-20-2008 04:44 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I tend to think communication through words still has primary importance because it is the chief means by which one thinks, reasons and communicates with others about what he is going to do in the first place. That step needs to be strong first before one may have strength in other things that need careful reasoning and communication with others.


Balladeer
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7 posted 11-20-2008 05:09 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I  agree, Essorant, that communication is very important, but only if actions follow them. You have to walk the walk after you talk the talk.

If Obama backs up his words with the right actions, the words will stand the test of time. If he does not, they will blow away in the wind like an overage dafodil.
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8 posted 11-20-2008 05:19 PM       View Profile for Ratleader   Email Ratleader   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ratleader's Home Page   View IP for Ratleader

My participation in this thread was voluntary.

I un-volunteer.

[This message has been edited by Ratleader (11-20-2008 09:56 PM).]

Essorant
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9 posted 11-20-2008 05:53 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Balladeer,

Yes, but the power of words also has virtues of itself and the skill and mind of the person behind them. Inspiring much hope and spirit with words is an admirable action right now, regardless of the future.  All he may do is try to continue doing his best.  A man that tries his hardest and with a good heart is still admirable even if he fails.

Ratleader
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10 posted 11-20-2008 07:05 PM       View Profile for Ratleader   Email Ratleader   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ratleader's Home Page   View IP for Ratleader

My participation in this thread was voluntary.

I un-volunteer.

[This message has been edited by Ratleader (11-20-2008 09:55 PM).]

Essorant
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11 posted 11-20-2008 07:24 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

That is just imposing your suspicion that there is automatically something else "veiled", instead of the same thing openly expressed through the words.  That may be true for many politicians, but that does not mean it is so for all, especially Obama.  But in any case, words are more important because that is how a man talks to his own soul as well as to other people.

Sunshine
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12 posted 11-20-2008 07:51 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

While I appreciate the attention that this post is bringing, I didn't post it in the Alley and I did not intentionally bring any one public figure, other than Lincoln, into this. Just a reminder to follow the rules of discussion as it pertains to this forum.

OR...

I could move it to The Alley if others want to chime in.  Your suggestions as to whether or not I do that would be appreciated.

Thanks, all, for your observations!



Essorant
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13 posted 11-20-2008 08:03 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Sunshine

Was not it you that stretched the thread to further things, when you asked:

quote:
So if those words cannot stand the test[s] of time, then what words could be uttered that would make a difference, if that were indeed possible in this day and age of vast and mass media, as well as improbable and impossible commercials?




Sunshine
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14 posted 11-20-2008 08:17 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I did indeed, Essorant, to invite continued discussion on theories, observations, the conduct and conduit that speech can not only allow, but inspire; but I also said that if this needs to be taken into the Alley, I will gladly move it.

My initial post was basically to posit whether or not words had the effect that the likes of Lincoln had to share; do politicians truly write what they feel from their minds and hearts today? I doubt so; we've all heard stories about the spinners.

Balladeer
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15 posted 11-20-2008 10:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

if the words are heartfelt and sincere, they have a future. Unfortunately, in this cut-and-paste world we are seeing, that is not always the case.
Sunshine
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16 posted 11-21-2008 09:30 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

And that's where the sifting begins, Sir. So many actors...so few concise sifters [with the exception of a lot of people here in the blue pages...]

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