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Passions in Poetry

The Application and Practice of Skills

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serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


0 posted 08-24-2006 07:09 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Call it serendipitous, call it Karen-just-being-Karen, but after asking a friend here at Pip what he knew of Economics, come to find out, my daughter is taking a course in Free Enterprise/Economics. I'm lovin' it. (Good thing--'cause they ain't teachin' it. They just handed her a book and said study.)

I mean, the first list I encountered was a guideline to critical thinking, so I um, commandeered her book. (That's code for "looting" btw. ?)

But here I find me stumped, right off the git-go:

Practicing Your Skill

1.What factor--more than any other--should affect how and what you write? Why?

2. Why is it important to consider your audience for your writing?

3. What is involved in the editing of a first draft?


Hmmmm.

So I thought about it, and I realized there is a certain poetry to economics, and a certain economy to poetry...grin.

So here we go, I'll answer the three questions (four if you count "why?") but I'm curious now as to how the rest of you will respond as well.


My answers:

1. Inspiration--and I never know if that will be a visual, a phrase, a smell, a sound, or WHUT, I just know something nags in my head until I write it out. Why? I always thought I was just wired that way.

2. Um....well, and here's the tickle of the pickle, I never wrote for an audience until I wrote according to guidelines here at Pip. So can I add some continuum to the question to ask if others have felt an invisable editor in their head after writing for a family oriented forum? (No disrespect intended, I am just genuinely curious)

3. My answer here is either, "edit, edit, edit, or DELETE DELETE DELETE" and I realize this is a much different response than when I wrote in marble notebooks: back then, I would use a simple line, and sometimes, after reconsideration, would add that back into to text. That no longer happens with my veddy efficient Dell.

So...I'm ever curious.

Do tell.

How do you practice your skills?
  
Mysteria
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Member Laureate
since 03-07-2001
Posts 19652
British Columbia, Canada


1 posted 08-24-2006 03:42 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I don't - haven't you noticed?     I do however sure enjoy watching you all do it.   Oh, and I actually took Economics, perhaps I should apply that to this and then I might get somewhere.  
Ron
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Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


2 posted 08-24-2006 07:24 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I'm not entirely sure if the questions pertain to economics, critical thinking, or writing?

quote:
1.What factor--more than any other--should affect how and what you write? Why?

Clarity. Not just for others, though that's paramount, but also for yourself. Without clarity, there can be no understanding.

quote:
2. Why is it important to consider your audience for your writing?

It's the difference between self-indulgence and communication. There's absolutely nothing wrong with self-indulgence, of course, but we shouldn't confuse it for what it isn't.

quote:
3. What is involved in the editing of a first draft?

See points #1 and #2.  

Oh, and by the way, those three questions have almost nothing to do with how I actually practice the craft of writing. Balance may be necessary to successfully ride a bike, but if you go out to practice your balance you'll inevitably miss a really great ride.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


3 posted 08-24-2006 08:23 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"1.What factor--more than any other--should affect how and what you write? Why?"

Good manners to keep writing in good shape.

"2. Why is it important to consider your audience for your writing?"

Good manners to show the audience respect.

"3. What is involved in the editing of a first draft?"

Good manners to improve it as much as may.

kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


4 posted 08-24-2006 09:08 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

I have to disagree with you there, Essorant. Good manners...what? Traditionally, it's not good manners to expose, and that's what writing's all about for me.

The factor that affects how and what I write is subject, much like inspiration.

It's important to consider the audience when writing, because that's who's reading it.

The editing of a first draft involves personal critisism-the ability to critisize yourself.

Denise
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Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


5 posted 08-24-2006 09:33 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

What's that old saying? It's just like riding a bike, you never forget. Well, I learned last week that my balance is way off and I was just thinking the other day that maybe I need to practice my balancing skills. Now you got me thinking Ron, maybe not. Maybe I need to relax and go with the flow, become one with the bike like when I was a kid. But my bones break so much easier now than then. Well, if I can't get over this fear there's always the three-wheeler!

I can't write anymore either, Karen, so the above questions are sadly irrelevent for me. But I like the answers I've seen here so far.
XOx Uriah xOX
Senior Member
since 02-11-2006
Posts 1398
Virginia


6 posted 08-24-2006 11:23 PM       View Profile for XOx Uriah xOX   Email XOx Uriah xOX   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for XOx Uriah xOX

I begin by telling myself... "I have skills"  "I have skills"   "I have skills".
Sometimes it works.
More often than not...I just go through my collection of pens and pencils that I keep in a large Yosemite Sam cup...one by one...until I find one that seems to have something to say.
::shrugs::    I get lucky.
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


7 posted 08-25-2006 02:06 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"Traditionally, it's not good manners to expose, and that's what writing's all about for me."

What do you mean?  Methinks every writing includes exposing or expressing something.  But I don't think just exposing or expressing something in any way succeeds in being good writing.  It takes little skill to just pour a thought or feeling out.  But it takes great skill to gather it, clean it, weave it, wind it, embroider it, adorn it, enrich it; bring it forth with good and admirable manners.

iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


8 posted 08-25-2006 03:33 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Interesting.

1)  The predominant factor for writing poetry for me....release.

2)  Why is it important to consider the audience?....I don't usually, sorry.

3)  What is involved in editing....reading it objectively.

I have to add that with the exception of a few poems I've concocted here, most have been the result of not concocting; just exploding -- what I call demiurgic diarrhea (sorry for the graphics)...lol.  

Also, I write for a living, but that kind of writing is very different so I'll address it separately.  

1)  Objectivity/factual content -- (what the audience is looking for is the most important factor in what I publish).

2)  It pays my wages.

3)  Three proofings, spell check, thersarus check, checking for redundancies and smooth reading, and then a final look over when it's all assembled before printing. (Oh, if I could only be that careful with my casual writing...giggles.)

I think the latter set of answers more effectively responds to the questions from an economic standpoint.  Please your audience.  Yep, that's what pays the bills.  I guess that would apply if you were writing poetry for a living; I just can't sell my soul (at least, that's how I look at it--soul speak) when it comes to poetry.  So...I guess I'm not a real writer when it comes to poetry. And Ser...you knew I was going to bite this bait, didn't you?  *winkies*...jojo



iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


9 posted 08-25-2006 04:11 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Came back to add this from the about.com website from Mark Flanagan,
Your Guide to Literature: Contemporary.
entitled:  Grasping at the Indefinable.  

Quote:  There are as many definitions of poetry as there are poets. Wordsworth defined poetry as "the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings;" Emily Dickenson said, "If I read a book and it makes my body so cold no fire ever can warm me, I know that is poetry;" and Dylan Thomas defined poetry this way: "Poetry is what makes me laugh or cry or yawn, what makes my toenails twinkle, what makes me want to do this or that or nothing."
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


10 posted 08-25-2006 06:26 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I built a treehouse with my brother.  One time he fell out of it.  I thought it would kill him but some branches slowed him down.  He was just bruised.

We went to see Mount Rushmore.

I like the older Corvettes better.

kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


11 posted 08-25-2006 09:35 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

Essorant, you say all writing exposes and expresses. I think all good writing exposes and expresses, but the reason I disagree with your 'good manners'concept is because manners can be translated into behaving accordingly with society, and I think good writers don't always accord with what society expects.
Mysteria
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 03-07-2001
Posts 19652
British Columbia, Canada


12 posted 08-25-2006 11:45 AM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Show Krista this link to furhter confuse the issue. http://rison.k12.ar.us/mcelroy/identifying%20skills_.htm
You know me, I could have used "cause and effect" to answer all three questions.

Reb, c'mere and let me squeeze the stuffing outta ya.

I liked the old '57 T-Bird myself.  
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


13 posted 08-25-2006 09:47 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Thanks.  I wear boxer briefs but in the summertime sometimes it's just faster to grab a diet pepsi than make a glass of iced tea.
latearrival
Member Elite
since 03-21-2003
Posts 4407
Florida


14 posted 08-26-2006 03:39 AM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

  Aside to Denise: Careful if you try a three wheeler. First time I tried I had to learn you lean entirely opposite than you would on a two wheeler. My son's friend, a fifteen year old at the time fell altogether. That was years ago but still holds true. Careful on the turns!.  

Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


15 posted 08-26-2006 09:02 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thanks for the warning, latearrival. I will certainly keep that in mind and be very careful. I think I'm going to give the two-wheeler another try or two before I give up.
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


16 posted 08-26-2006 02:11 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Ya'll crack me up.

And it makes sense if you know us...

This was just from the intro of my daughter's text. I think the text assumed she had been taught critical thinking in writing before--and um, no she hasn't. I applied to poetry as well because I'm just like that.

Besides, I'm a girl ( ) and I have found through trial error that girls learn better when a subject is approached linguistically. For instance, the mathy stuff? I couldn't get it. I'm still learning, but I did better once I started thinking of numbers as a language, and even better when I came across a tutorial page that described the easier equations as balances. So um, yeah, we're doing a little better in algebra this year.

But I thought I'd add the twelve steps (nod, every where I go, there's 12 steps--sheesh)

Critical Thinking and The Study of Economics

1. Recognizing Point of View

2. Comparing and Contrasting

3. Analyzing

4. Assessing Consequences

5. Identifying Values

6. Hypothesyzing

7. Synthezying

8. Problem Solving

9. Evaluating

10. Making a stand

11. Studying Comtemporary Issues and Problems

12. Applying a Model

And yeah, there's was more, but I'm not typing all of that. But I thought this was a pretty good basis for argument, and I assume they would like students to use this criteria while reading the text, as well as when they are doing assignments.

But I do thank you all for your input, and please, do continue.

Ya'll are fun. (And Ron, any suggestions for teaching are appreciated too.)
XOx Uriah xOX
Senior Member
since 02-11-2006
Posts 1398
Virginia


17 posted 08-26-2006 06:35 PM       View Profile for XOx Uriah xOX   Email XOx Uriah xOX   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for XOx Uriah xOX

Critical Thinking and The Study of Economics

1. Recognizing Point of View

2. Comparing and Contrasting

3. Analyzing

4. Assessing Consequences

5. Identifying Values

6. Hypothesyzing

7. Synthezying

8. Problem Solving

9. Evaluating

10. Making a stand

11. Studying Comtemporary Issues and Problems

12. Applying a Model


Sheesh   ::cradles head::   If I applied ANY of this to writing...I would never write again.   LOL   As if it mattered   haha
http://piptalk.com/main/forumdisplay.cgi?action=displayarchive&number=94&topic=001075
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


18 posted 08-26-2006 11:58 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Complexity is the key to chaos.
latearrival
Member Elite
since 03-21-2003
Posts 4407
Florida


19 posted 08-27-2006 02:48 AM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

Serenity: the 12 steps apply to learning to ride a  three wheeler too LOL! Especially 2 3 4 8 and 12

Attatch seat to seat and hold your breath, remember to lean! Love ya and you are a worthy teacher. Your kids are lucky.
 
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