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Passions in Poetry

Are ALL lyrics poetry

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bungalowbill357
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0 posted 04-27-2006 12:02 AM       View Profile for bungalowbill357   Email bungalowbill357   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bungalowbill357


I am in quite the debate on whether or not all lyrics are considered poetry. i will not give my opinion on the subject until I have gotten ideas from each of you.
Debo
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1 posted 04-27-2006 11:21 AM       View Profile for Debo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Debo

Well this my opinion is that
Not all lyrics are poetry
Poetry Definition: The art or craft of rhythmic composition

Debo

stargal
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2 posted 05-02-2006 08:56 AM       View Profile for stargal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for stargal

M'kay, well I dunno Debo, because there is poetry that is not "rhythmic", so I think i'm still in a toss up on this one

Sorry, I didn't really add anything to this post...

@-->---

Christopher
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3 posted 05-02-2006 02:33 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

it's my opinion that not all poetry is poetry...
Ron
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4 posted 05-02-2006 03:37 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

It's my opinion, on the other hand, that everything is poetry.
Mysteria
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5 posted 05-02-2006 11:48 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I have to tell you that several Canadian musicians I have known for years personally wrote poetry and recited it in little coffee houses long before their poetry ever became lyrics of their recorded songs.  A few that came to mind are Neil Young, Randy Bachman, Burton Cummings, Joni Mitchell, and Lorenna McKenna.  One I don't know but I consider one of the best lyric poets is Bob Dylan, and if that isn't poetry I sure don't know what is.  When you find the answer I would be curious to know myself, as I always figured anything written other than a parking ticket was poetry.
Walter Poe
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6 posted 05-14-2006 09:53 AM       View Profile for Walter Poe   Email Walter Poe   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Walter Poe

I would say yes all lyrics are poetry if the lyrics are to a song most rave/house/dance one sentence repetitions aren't songs so therefore are not poetry. Possibly i would consider 'manufactured' pop music low quality poetry.

This is my reasoning poems are designed like music to evoke emotions. So songs are poetry but not all poetry can be songs but anyone who has heard sunscreen by Baz Luhrman (and if you haven't do) may disagree.

I went to the desert on a horse with no name, it felt good to get out of the rain.

Marge Tindal
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7 posted 05-14-2006 11:25 AM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal


I LOVE Ron's answer !
I agree 133% !

~*The sound of a kiss is not as strong as that of a cannon, but it's echo endures much longer*~
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Enchantress
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8 posted 05-14-2006 01:32 PM       View Profile for Enchantress   Email Enchantress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Enchantress

YES!!!  It's all poetry!
And Mysteria!!  I remember the days of coffee houses and beatniks!
Ringo
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9 posted 05-14-2006 08:58 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Totally agree with Ron's answer. I only wish I could have said it first.

Lyrics are poetry. I had more than one music instructor as I was growing up inform me that songs were nothing more than poetry set to music. (I know that eliminates the instrumentals; however, let's just stick this one out second.)
I also had chance to discuss my songwriting with a musician whom most of you would more than likely know the name of his band, (more like my lack of ability to get decent lyrics together) and he said almost the exact same thing. He had learned through a mutual friend that I was a poet, and he asked for a sample. I showed him one that I was working on, and he turned it into a song on the spot.
AS for the argument that one line reepetition isn't poetry... the shortest poem on record is barely one line. Would repeating is ad nauseum make it any less so?

"... the rest is silence"
from the song The Flesh Failures
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Essorant
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10 posted 05-15-2006 12:48 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

About 10% of the universe (including lyrics) is poetry.  

The rest is a heap of chaos!
serenity blaze
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11 posted 05-15-2006 08:21 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Ron's right.

sigh

I sure wish he would express it more, but there is poetry in piles of maggots, aching to be flies, squirming wing.

grin

see what we mean?

Y'just gotta see it.

Ringo
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12 posted 05-15-2006 10:21 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Karen-
Even though we agree that there is poetry in all things, I think you alone could have made a pile of maggots actually sound like poetry.

"... the rest is silence"
from the song The Flesh Failures
www.myspace.com/mindlesspoet

ESP
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13 posted 05-22-2006 08:43 PM       View Profile for ESP   Email ESP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ESP

In reply to: Mysteria

Joni Mitchell....*sigh*....that has to be poetry...

...Both sides now...
bigboy
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14 posted 05-22-2006 09:52 PM       View Profile for bigboy   Email bigboy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bigboy

i believe that poetry should have harmony. i believe that the poetry should blend together in words or lyrics
Brian James
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15 posted 05-22-2006 10:58 PM       View Profile for Brian James   Email Brian James   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brian James

Well, calling something "poetry" doesn't necessarily mean that it's good poetry.

Ironically, what we would usually consider to be a "poem" nowadays would once have been more precisely described as a "lyric."  Strictly speaking, "lyric" has pretty consistently been used to describe a category of poetry throughout history.

Kinda like asking, "are all basset hounds dogs?"


"To me, the thing that art does for life is to clean it, to strip it to form."
~Robert Frost
LeeJ
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16 posted 05-24-2006 01:15 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

when I see a man/woman standing in a stream fishing with a fly rod...now that, to me is poetry or the ocean/sea rhythematically lapping the shore, or a horse, at a full gallop, reading Poe, listening to music/songs....living life...etc...etc...reading these blue pages...watching Grey's Anatomy a tree whispering in a summer breeze....whoever came up with "poetry in motion" says it all...
My answer is yes, poetry is all things...rhyme or no rhyme, lyrics or complete silence...to me is poetry...
Christopher
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17 posted 05-24-2006 02:15 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

next question then, Ron - how much of it is GOOD poetry?
aliway
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18 posted 05-24-2006 03:42 PM       View Profile for aliway   Email aliway   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for aliway

This is an endless debate, it goes in both ways. The right answer is in the eyes of the beholder.

I say its both.
Ron
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19 posted 05-24-2006 03:46 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Read any Theodore Sturgeon lately, Chris.

Of course, like all else, any answer is going to depend on first agreeing on a definition of "good." I personally don't think "Mary Had a Little Lamb" is good poetry, for example, but I do think it's poetry and I do think it serves a vital purpose for a very specific audience. From a Darwinian perspective, "bad" poetry won't survive beyond its first telling, and will never reach a wider audience.


Christopher
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20 posted 05-24-2006 04:37 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

No, haven't, though I do remember upon following your link the "revelation." Something I not only agree with, but also notice refutes your statement if accepted... (besides the fact that it's one of those "I always tell the truth / you always lie" kind of statements.)
quote:
From a Darwinian perspective, "bad" poetry won't survive beyond its first telling, and will never reach a wider audience.
Perhaps a bit off the subject, but do you believe this still holds true, with the propogation of the Internet? Haven't you built a home in which bad poetry can, in fact, survive past the first "telling" and be around for future browsers to happen upon again and again and again? (and PLEASE don't tell me there's no bad poetry here... I know you've read at least one of my posts! )
kif kif
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21 posted 06-02-2006 05:05 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

Interesting discussion, people. I'm laughing Sturgeon's Law-90% of everything is crud. I'd like to easily agree, but that would mean admitting that rubbish song lyrics were something.

I've got a phrase that a friend cut out and posted, a'la ransom note style to me..."Nothing Is Impossible, Everything Is Free"

You're all going to think I'm a total misanthropist here, but I've always pondered on ancient times. The Seers, poets, musicians and artists, along with the philosphers, were revered in society, because there were so few  in the community. Nowadays, there's much more people in the world, and the communities are scattered. Where does that leave The Seers? I think, that because society has changed so much, the expressions of beyond this finite world are no longer just the domain of those picked out by the community as worthy-now, Global Industry decides, on the whole, which artists get the exposure to enlighten us.

I think the internet is a good thing for reconnecting us all to the more natural selections of art. We decide, not some multi-international company. Of course , because the population is so huge, there is more dross to sift through, but there is also more jewels to be found as a result.

Are ALL lyrics poetry? No.

Is some poetry lyric? Yes.

There are bad lyrics, just as there is bad poetry, just as there is bad design, just as there is bad literature...yadda yadda.

but, there's also good stuff, in the most unlikeliest of places.
Moon Dust
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22 posted 06-24-2006 09:59 PM       View Profile for Moon Dust   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Moon Dust

I think that all lyrics are poetry, what I think is the distintion between good lyrics and and bad lyrics is the work you put in and how your idol culturally effects you.

If your afraid of the dark, then why did you come?

Walter Poe
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23 posted 06-26-2006 01:15 PM       View Profile for Walter Poe   Email Walter Poe   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Walter Poe

Ok im gonna get back in here poetry is about emotion that is what it is designed to do.
I hate to disagree with ron but 'Mary had a little lamb' is a good poem read it from a fresh perspective as a child

    Mary had a little lamb,
    little lamb, little lamb,
    Mary had a little lamb, its fleece was white as snow.
    And everywhere that Mary went,
    Mary went, Mary went,
    and everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go.

    It followed her to school one day
    school one day, school one day,
    It followed her to school one day, which was against the rules.
    It made the children laugh and play,
    laugh and play, laugh and play,
    it made the children laugh and play to see a lamb at school.

    And so the teacher turned it out,
    turned it out, turned it out,
    And so the teacher turned it out, but still it lingered near,
    And waited patiently about,
    patiently about, patiently about,
    And waited patiently about till Mary did appear.

    "Why does the lamb love Mary so?"
    Love Mary so? Love Mary so?
    "Why does the lamb love Mary so," the eager children cry.
    "Why, Mary loves the lamb, you know."
    The lamb, you know, the lamb, you know,
    "Why, Mary loves the lamb, you know," the teacher did reply.

It is when viewed as a child would evoctive and descriptive its a bit hackneyed now but it has been over used 'its fleece was white as snow' is a phenomenal description.

But i would still say cutting one line out of anothers work and repeating it over and over to a beat isn't poetry it does not evoke it does the opposite its dead words mutilated and fed back to a none beat.

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 
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