How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 pipTalk Lounge
 Life is But A . . .
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Life is But A . . .

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 12-22-2004 01:23 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Freud and Jung, among others, made dreams communications
from the unconscious, but often isnít a dream just a dream,
perhaps a way for the mind to entertain itself?

Also dreams are often more interesting than events in normal life
and yet how many do we recall even shortly thereafter?  Is it
that the conscious mind readily discounts them.  Then again,
how much of events while awake are we capable of remembering?
How much of any randomly chosen day in your life one
or more years ago could you in detail recall?


ďLife is a dream that is never recalled when the sleeper awakes.Ē

Mark Strand

TexUS
Member
since 03-20-2003
Posts 228


1 posted 12-23-2004 12:45 AM       View Profile for TexUS   Email TexUS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TexUS

There are dreams I donít want to wake from,
There are days that seem like a dream,
Iíve lived through many nightmares,
Iíve had nightmares and wake with a screamÖ


It's all very confusing to me!

(o.k., just kidding around!)

Happy Holidays!
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


2 posted 12-23-2004 02:07 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


What is interesting
is being in a dream
when you know, in the dream,
that youíre dreaming.
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


3 posted 12-23-2004 07:01 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung did not "make" dreams.

They analyzed the dreams of their patients, (and themselves) in an attempt to understand a symbolic and image-laden language of the subconscious--quite a different matter from the unconscience..

"but often isnít a dream just a dream,
perhaps a way for the mind to entertain itself?"

That possibility was er, entertained and eventually dismissed by both, in fact, in variant differing degrees as a classification of dreamstage, most famously recognizable now by REM (rapid eye movement) stages. (I used to enjoy my Windows '98 program--I liked to watch it "de-frag", simply because I imagined that various shuffling and re-filing as very much the way a human brain works--sorting the days information)

Yet?

I don't think either espoused the idea that it was mere "entertainment" for an "unconscious mind". In fact, Freud was most strident in his belief that dreams were expressions of (subconcious) desire that found a voice, (thus, an indication of conscious repression) albeit through sometimes seemingly "chaosed" imagery.

"Also dreams are often more interesting than events in normal life"

No offense, but speak for yourself. I'm sure I can't say what sort of life you're living, but personally, my dreams are welcome respite. And that ain't 'cause my life is boring. (although recently I did have one about St. Michael on an escalator which gave me some pause.*shudder*)
But, I'll not bore you with that, because interest is entirely subjective to an audience, and that audience happens to be me. So I hereby rest my case on the entertainment argument.

"and yet how many do we recall even shortly thereafter?"

sigh. Now how is that even possible to ascertain?

"Is it
that the conscious mind readily discounts them."

Either put your subject before the predicate or add the appropriate interrogatory punctuation. The way it stands, it asks nothing. (Or are you offering your opinion here? Because I'd welcome that yanno.)

"Then again,
how much of events while awake are we capable of remembering?"

Either way, it is co-relative. Remembering my waking day depends upon how my electrolytes are doing, and if those synapses are zapping ze proper connections. We are basically a bag of chemicals, dependant on the ingestion of "proper" chemicals for maximum performance. And I agree with good humor that some of us are more chemically challenged than others. (heh, chemically challenged--don't suppose I could get that one entered into the politically correct dictionary, eh?)
I do suggest though, that perhaps some dreams offer up a logical formula to that--i.e., perhaps a giant pink copulating bunny might be the emotional equivalent to the variant in the balance of that day's particular constant of a
"stress" puzzle. Or perhaps Freud was right, in that a giant pink copulating bunny was a remnant of an "energizer" battery commercial that conveniently expresses my frustration. (And uh, yeah, I think all frustration was sexual according to Siggy. And yes, I know he said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." But let's take into account the man loved cigars. )

"How much of any randomly chosen day in your life one
or more years ago could you in detail recall?"

For that to be truly random, someone else would have to choose a date, and it would be unlikely that I could recall a damned thing on demand by date. Ask me what color panties I wore to the prom, and I'd give you a definitive answer. Ask me what happened on August 22, 1973, and you'll get nothing.

I like to think it's because of that fault-line in our basic computer-brain, that our psychologists interpret dreams as language of subconscious, as an attempt to bridge the two hemispheres. I could remember my prom panties (had I worn any) because that is an emotional cue. Ask me the date of the prom, and I'll offer up a shrug.

The study of dreams offers up a marriage of emotion and the fact-gathering intellect. I think it's a shame to dismiss that offering as a frivolity of mere "entertainment".

But your following response leads me to wonder:

"What is interesting
is being in a dream
when you know, in the dream,
that youíre dreaming."

Are you referring to lucid dreaming? And if you are, have you experienced that?

And if you have, would you indulge me further with an example from your personal experience?

And just one more thing here, all of this conversation is offered in the simple spirit of sharing. Y'see, I'd had a problem (still do, obviously) with sleep due to recurring nightmares. One day, though, I recognized that my dreams (even the nice ones) evolved into the horrific when I had slept too long, or too...heavily.

So yes, I have to agree with Antero Alli:

Children have nightmares in order to wake up.


Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


4 posted 12-23-2004 02:21 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

"Are you referring to lucid dreaming?"


What is "lucid dreaming", (not sure
if this is a special term)?


P.S. Iíve had ďdivingĒ dreams, gliding above
around and through landscapes, towns, rooms etc.,
(something Iíve never done in real life).

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (12-23-2004 02:57 PM).]

Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


5 posted 12-23-2004 03:09 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

you may not have "done it" in real life, Huan Yi, at least not in the literal sense, but you could probably find an easy metaphor for occurences/emotions/thoughts in your life to match your dream (you know, like how if you dream about being a vegetarian shark you must really be a closet homosexual).
Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


6 posted 12-23-2004 03:51 PM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

Lucid dreaming is when you recognize in the dream that it is a dream, and take control of the events therein (since you know you can).

Interesting stuff.  Or can be.  
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


7 posted 12-23-2004 11:27 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Dreams are made by ghostspiders.  These  glide all over man and bind him in wonderful dream-webs when he is sleepy.  
When man awakes they all run away and the web breaks; but the threads still stick to his senses.  
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


8 posted 12-24-2004 12:44 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

serenity blaze/Skyfyre


Once, over a period of months, I learned, (through trial
and error),  how to flow, in a repeatedly same
topography,  from my bedroom through
a closed wooden door, down a corridor, through
a living room, through a small opening in curtains
through a picture window and then out over a
landscape.  Would that be lucid dreaming?

Iíve also deliberately grabbed ďvisitorsĒ by their
wrists while forcing myself to wake; would that
qualify?

In both examples, I could control my own actions
but not the results.


Christopher,


Definitely, the diving dreams, reflect in their sensations
my actual lone diving experiences, but that doesnít explain
the buildings, (for example, two story wooden) or why I should vividly
experience closely diving around them and especially over their
clearly perceived roofs.

Secondly you can make metaphors of anything, (David
Ignatow once wrote he considered it an indication of
his growing maturity that he could look at a mountain
as a mountain and not as a comment on his life).

Iíve actually been under with sharks; itís
impossible to even imagine them as vegetarian(-:

I still think many if not most dreams are, (absent trauma),
or can be just dreams signifying nothing.  We live in
a time when there are whole industries devoted to
our entertainment or at least distraction.  It isnít
such a leap to imagine that the mind that they appeal
to should then have or develop similar talents of its
own.

Essorant,

ďDreams are made by ghostspiders.  These  glide all over man and bind him in wonderful dream-webs when he is sleepy. ď

Not, Iíd think,  if theyíre black widows.


 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> pipTalk Lounge >> Life is But A . . . Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors