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Passions in Poetry

King Arthur

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LeeJ
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0 posted 07-12-2004 12:57 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Had the opportunity to see King Arthur this past weekend and was interested in hearing from all of you who saw it and what you thought?

I liked the none-typical roles in this movie, made it more interesting, and she was fantastic as a soldier....the scene on the ice was great...overall, it held my attention but (it doesn't take much) hehehhehe....

Traditionally, I don't believe there is very much information on King Arthur....and so, he has been romantisized on screen and theater, but this new movie added something more incredibly real...as if, perhaps it was really like that then.  And the horses, OMG, they were beautiful...the Knights were so imperfect with special personalities....with a touch of humor.

Well worth seeing...
Aenimal
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1 posted 07-12-2004 10:33 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

I wanted to see it, and liked the angle they were leaning on, linking the Legend of Arthur with a real-life Roman commander(forget his name). I've hesitated though, watching the previews soured me a little on the movie though i'm sure i'll still watch it. Making Guinevere a warrior, and a smart assed one to boot, was another of example of hollywood forcing horrible revisions to make classic female characters more exciting and central to the story. They tried to do this with Arwen in Lord of The Rings, making her a warrior princess, but fans caught wind and were so enraged that the revisions and some film were quickly scrapped. I realize there's a lack of strong female characters and role models, but to revise classic works just for the sake of creating one. ugh.
LeeJ
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2 posted 07-13-2004 09:43 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hi, and thanks for replying...I can honestly understand the distate and why...but if that can all be laid aside...well, I liked it, and the part she played, for me it was an interesting change...and didn't see her like you described...but more so, thoughened by life and quit able to take care of herself...
and enjoyed the movie...thought it was a sort of role reversal in the context as well as the characters.  
Aenimal
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3 posted 07-13-2004 11:42 AM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

To be fair it could simply be the way the trailer is cut. "Don't worry I'll protect you" line is the one that irked me. At first, making Guinevere a warrior seemed akin to making Maid Marianne a ninja. It seemed a pointless revision but in defense of the movie I've been researching Arthurian legend in an historical context and it seems there may be something to the warrior angle.

Guinevere is a difficult character to get a grasp on, there isn't much documentation on her. Depending on whom you listen to, some historians believe there may have been as many as 3 Guineveres married to Arthur. The first of them was Guinevere of Orrge.

This would seem to be the Guinevere legend that the film makers chose to play with. Guinevere of Orrge is said to have been a Celtic princess whose father sent her to a Roman garrison where she received full military training in order to defend their vast estate.

While training is the extent of her warrior side in the legend, I can at least see where the writers chose the celtic warrior angle. So I've eased up lol I'll watch it, let's face it I'd have watched it anyway, both for my l@ve of period pieces and Kiera Knightley(but for god's sake somebody feed her).
Ron
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4 posted 07-13-2004 12:18 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Actually, I have much more trouble, in ANY story, accepting a completely mismatched couple. Does anyone really believe men like Robin or Arthur would be seriously attracted to wimpettes? A strong man might not need a woman wielding a sword, but he certainly needs one who can fight.
Sunshine
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5 posted 07-13-2004 12:50 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

...Or at least, give the appearance that she can more than hold her ground....
Aenimal
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6 posted 07-13-2004 01:41 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

My problem was only in revision, like the proposed warrior Arwen. Personally I even hated that she was the one who rode Frodo to Rivendell, poor Glorfindel got the boot.

As for strong female characters I agree. Has anybody seen Lion In Winter? Katherine Hepburn's Queen Eleanor is a perfect example of a strong, take no BS Queen. There have been remakes and plays but it's Hepburn's delivery in the 1968 version.

God I L@VE that movie.
LeeJ
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7 posted 07-13-2004 02:01 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Think about it...back in those days, the men were away fighting...now whose going to mind the store while they're gone?

Stands to reason, why women needed to protect themselves.  And to be quite candid and humble at the same time ...When Guinevere said, "Don't worry, I'll protect you", he smiled, and I took it as a precious joke between the two of them...besides, if you had your choice, wouldn't you wish a compitent woman by your side in battle?  

Grew up with 21 boys in my neighborhood, learned how to catch a football very well, hit the baseball hard...run fast...fish, hunt..hang drywall, target shot clay pigons....hang electric lights...finish concrete...luke blacktop...and still love with a passion to dress like a real princess for those special occassions.

Hate shopping very much, as well as, soap operas, but...enjoy the opposite gender just in case there are any notions flying around in your minds (smile)  

I learned very quickly, if I did anything better then those boys...I walked around with two black & blue arms...so very quickly fostered that type of woman Ron described, and you know something, that carried over up until 6 years ago.  Some men are so intimidated by intellegent, independent women. Why?  

Nah, the Lady played the part of a Lady in all aspects of the word...and I thought she did a gr8 job doing so...

Hope I didn't offend you in anyway...hopefully you can see where I didn't take offense by that "I'll protect you" line...women are nurtures and would protect her own like a mama bear over her cubs if need be...believe me...there isn't anything we couldn't do if we had to and put our minds down to it.  

I loved the movie, the concept and the change in characters was a breath of fresh air

Thanks a bunch for the info on King Arthur...  

Poet deVine
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8 posted 07-13-2004 05:33 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I saw the movie and it was completely believeable. She grew up as a Wold..a forest dweller..all the women could fight like a man..in the final battle scene, the women were right there beside the men.

I think Clive Owen is a good actor...I've loved every movie I've seen him in and he ranks right up there with the best of the hotties.

The characters were well drawn and you cared about them all...and the action scenes were well done...
Aenimal
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9 posted 07-13-2004 08:04 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

LeeJ, personally I always fall for tomboys so it's not an issue of not liking strong women, just changing my favourite stories. But reading what I have on Guinevere the changes become clearer.

As I said it's also the way trailers are cut, you don't see scenes in context and read into things. I can't tell you how many trailers clip two scenes together to make a statement, then watching the movie you find they're actually at completely different ends of the movie.
Aenimal
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10 posted 07-13-2004 08:07 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

PDV, if you like Clive Owen check out BMW movies. BMW commisioned a series of short films with Clive Owen as a driver for hire. Some of them are absolutely brilliant and include directors Ang Lee,John Frankenheimer and interesting cameos as well.
LeeJ
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11 posted 07-14-2004 11:41 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

thanks a bunch for leaning toward the Tom Boy types and also for the refrences.

LeeJ
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12 posted 07-14-2004 11:43 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

P.S.  May I offer a tenny tiny soloution, don't watch the trailors....

cannot wait to see the Manchurian Candidate...I'm a movie buff from way back...love em...and I don't read the books first, otherwise, it's a big let down
Aenimal
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13 posted 07-14-2004 08:38 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

And I'd like the tomboy types who've let me lean on them. grins
Susan
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14 posted 07-14-2004 08:39 PM       View Profile for Susan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan

Okay, to add my two cents worth, The History Channel has a great show on right now about the myth and history of King Arthur.  It goes into the possible roman ties, the romancing of the story by the Monk that wrote the story the legend is mostly based upon, etc.  Arthur was probably a mix of several people.  He was needed to boost the moral of the people at the time due to the saxon invaders.

As for strong women, I agree with Raph in not corrupting a story by changing a character to such a degree -- ticked me off in the Lord of the Rings series and their interpretation of Faramir.

However, as a wanna be warrior woman myself, I do not jest, I have the greatest admiration for women of strength and valor.  It is my pleasure to associate with a number of women you would not want to meet on the streets.  Did you know that the Amazon women are based upon women from the stepps around the mid to far east who were fantastic horsemen and archers.  It is said that at puberty they would cut off the young womans left breast in order to aid in her abilities as an archer.  Ouch!

However, I shall accept the movie when I see it, which I hope to soon, for what it is as it is, an interpretation and vision of the Arthruian legend.

  Susan
Aenimal
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15 posted 07-14-2004 09:06 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

"As for strong women, I agree with Raph in not corrupting a story by changing a character to such a degree -- ticked me off in the Lord of the Rings series and their interpretation of Faramir"


THANK YOU, I've been bitching about that one forever, and despite a decent explanation by Phillipa Bowens (on the extended Two Towers DVD)I still think it was a horrible decision. As a result one of the most intriguing characters in literature gets the shaft. Faramir resists the ring for god's sake, proving there is still hope for the race of men.

The extended versions are far better at fleshing out the characters. Quite frankly, while I l@ved Sean Bean's acting(perfect casting), I didn't like Boromir's treatment in the film version. The extended better shows his postive/protective aspects and his inner struggle. I'd hoped the same for Faramir, but while the extended DVD offers a little more insight into the character, he pales in comparison to his literary counterpart.

I had to let alot go with Jackson's versions, and they're brilliant. I'm incredibly happy for the film adaptations and that LOTR has reached a wider audience. It still doesn't mean that some of those changes were necessary or even make sense.
Susan
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16 posted 07-14-2004 09:21 PM       View Profile for Susan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan

Much agreed, I too had to let a lot go.  I guess I was just in bliss at seeing LOTR on screen that I could let some slide.  Faramir, however!  And I agree, Boromir was not fleshed out enough to show his conflict until the extended.  I've yet to buy Return of the King unitl the extended comes out.  Luckily, with King Arthur, so many different interpreations have been put to film it will not be such a stretch to let go my doubts.

  Susan
Aenimal
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17 posted 07-14-2004 09:50 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Well i don't mind letting things go if there's a reasonable explanation. I'm still trying to figure out why the ring was revealed to the Nazgul in Two Towers..shrugs.

Well you'll have to wait much longer for the extended version. Jackson's working on King Kong so the extended version won't be done until Christmas at the earliest, or sometime next year at the latest. sighs.
LeeJ
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18 posted 07-15-2004 07:11 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Susan, your a gal after my own heart....smiles...

There was only one specific thing that I didn't like about King Arthur, and, it's possible I missed it...but...in the advertisement I saw on TV...someone suggested that the Holy Grail was going to be merged with this movie as well?  From the reports I've heard, and, believe me, I'm just tossing this around for feedback...I came to read that Kind Arthur and his Knights were also very instrumental in protecting the Holy Grail...which also came from the Di Vinci Code....which was indeed, some fiction, other factual information backed up by resources?  And again...keeping in mind, your reading opinions perhaps....but...has anyone read or found any material substantial on King Arthurs involvement with the Holy Grail and it's secrecy?  

Aenimal
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19 posted 07-15-2004 08:05 AM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail by Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln is a great source for the legend. While not as sound and scholarly as their more recent work, Leigh & Baigent offer some interesting insight and theories. Unfortunately, many of those theories get lost in their search for the fantastic. But it should be stated that certain theories have been argued and accepted by biblical scholars.

So, while flawed the book is an interesting springboard and at the very least an interesting read. I haven't read the DaVinci code but have read many theories into the legend. I've seen no credible link to DaVinci, though I believe that he believed, and subsequently painted, the Magdalene as an apostle in The Last Supper.
Sunshine
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20 posted 07-15-2004 08:21 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Holy Blood and Holy Grail seemed to go hand in hand [for me] with The DaVinci Code.  Lots of room for speculation.  
Aenimal
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21 posted 07-15-2004 08:34 AM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Of course Karilea, that's why I was careful to mention the book's tendency to reach for the fantastic. However, some of the theories represented have been discussed in much more reputable circles. A&E's brilliant Mysteries of the Bible featured many discussed by the world's most reknowned biblical scholars. The book is an interesting read but doesn't hold much weight for me. Unlike some of their recent work, it's too full of innuendo and reaches to far. But as a source for the 'legend' itself, it's a good starting point.
LeeJ
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22 posted 07-15-2004 08:46 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

So, while flawed the book is an interesting springboard and at the very least an interesting read. I haven't read the DaVinci code but have read many theories into the legend. I've seen no credible link to DaVinci, though I believe that he believed, and subsequently painted, the Magdalene as an apostle in The Last Supper.


Yes, and do you know that a lot of people deny the Magdalene as an apostle in the Last Supper?

Then what about the other Masters that were listed in the Di Vinci Code as being secret members?  Do you believe that might be fiction as well?  

Also, Sunshine, I hear ya...but there's something really awesome which puts a smile on my face whenever I consider the fact that, wouldn't it be something, I mean really something, "if" His seed was right now today, walking among us?  Talk about Hope for Mankind?  


Sunshine
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23 posted 07-15-2004 08:50 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Yes, Lee....

and that's probably why I enjoyed very much that potential possibility....
LeeJ
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24 posted 07-15-2004 08:53 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

smiles...


heres something else....in the Di Vinci Code which was engrossing.....

On the PHI.1

The point of this, is that we find that it's not limited to nature, but it's been used by artists and architects. The Parthenon, the pyramids in Egypt and the United Nations Building all use the Divine Proportion. Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, Durer and many other artists used the proportion in their paintings, and Beethoven, Mozart, Bartok, Shubert and Debussy are just a few musicians who have also used it in their compositions.


I dunno, perhaps I should have started another discussion, huh?  

 
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