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Passions in Poetry

SMOKING ON THE BEACH?

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LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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0 posted 06-22-2004 11:12 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Smoke-free beaches.

I'd like to view and discuss your opinions on smoking. I believe it's gone way to far, and in my opinion, 2nd hand smoke does not devestate as does the effects that drinking has on families...think about it?  Yes, smoking is bad, for the person smoking I'll agree there, but it is a choice...which I believe some just love control...and yes, there are some smokers who are less the considerate, I'll agree, but on the whole, I believe people are so angry that this is their way to eleviate frustration about much heavier and despairing issues.  

I wish people would start taking all this energy that they provoke in issues as smoking and start consentrating on the more serious issues at hand, such as our countries youth, their abuse, lack of education, plus social disfunctions. I mean really, unless you have a breathing disability, smoking cannot insult you to this degree, can it?

And the issue of waste on the beaches and in the streets....well, then, lets talk about the effects of radio active waste and where are the stores? Or how about, chemical plants, their waste and their malfunctions leaking harmful chemicals into the air, which we never hear about, or all the tankers on the horizon of the oceans of the the Atlantic, dumping trash and medical waste into the sea...what about all biochemical experiments...where does all that waste go, inparticular, when those who wash their hands, where does the waste of that go..or how about the waste left from the experiements from the atomic research...the chemicals in foods...how bout tainted blood?  Or how bout the tons of household garbage, coke and beer bottles, fast food bags that are thrown out of cars...or kids bubble gum, which I step in and hall unknowingly up my carpeted steps?  Smiling  

Dogs do not smoke, and yet, there is an alarming rise of cancer in dogs since I was young.Why? What effects do chemicals have on our ground, grass, milk, and food?What chemicals are they now placing in dog foods?

I'd like to read your opinion on this subject.And oh, by the way, I do smoke, never in my house, nor around others that it offends.I go outside to smoke, winter, spring summer or fall.Nor would I smoke in any one elses house or car.I will walk away from the group and have a cigerette though.

Whats your opinion, on smoking, don't you think compared to the other issues I've itemized here, that smoking is a smoke screen of issues much more magnified...including alcoholics, drinking and driving and the battering of family members?Why are we fighting to abolish that kind of behavior which effects and reproduces for generations.


Ron
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1 posted 06-22-2004 11:43 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Your argument, Lee, seems to be that murder is so much worse than robbery that we shouldn't be concerned with the latter until we can eradicate the former. Why can't we control both?

A more interesting argument, I think, would be that smoking is like eating cholesterol-laden fast food or using seat belts in a car. Each is a question of personal safety and individual life style. Are those the kinds of things that should be regulated and taxed by the state?
LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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2 posted 06-22-2004 12:41 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hi Ron,

Here's my opinion on being food conscience, my entire family is such, except me...and it's ok, but seems to me to be overkill...here's the thing Ron...my pop pop lived to be 107 years old...in those days they ate lard, and he drank a glass of wine every night before retiring, nana made homemade baked goods twice a week, sometimes more...they consumed free range chickens, beef and lamb...smoked a pipe?  And I agree, cigerettes are harmful, but...so are the chemicals in our foods today, and the others I have mentioned above.  It seems to me that society wants to have control, so they attack an easier issue like smoking, rather then the real cancer causing agents in our food, water supply and air.  The smoking thing is way overdone...and to make a statement "I hate smokers" is well, to me narrow minded and opinionated when there are more pressing issues at hand?  But...we are not equipped to fight those issues, it's rather a more difficult task.  Our people are angry, so smokers is there way to vent, perhaps? Again, 2nd hand smoke is not nearly as dangerous as all the other chemicals in our air, drinking water, food?  Why don't we do something about that?  I don't understand, shaking my head?

Christopher
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3 posted 06-22-2004 03:53 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

2nd hand smoke IS dangerous (how do you figure it's "not as dangerous"?). it also stinks, it's expensive, and undeniably addictive. how it can be cosidered an "easier" issue boggles me. it is arguably the most addictive legal, harmful product currently used. consider how many people die of lung cancer (that can often be linked to smoking) per annum, and the other numbers have a tendency to wither under its power. not a small, nor an easy issue... i think people are right to look at it. legislate it? perhaps, there are certainly arguements on both sides of that coin. but be concerned? a definitive yes.

fwiw: i'm a smoker as well.
LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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4 posted 06-23-2004 07:42 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hi Chris
and thank you for your views....I just feel very strongly and from my heart, that smoking is my choice...and yes, as addictive as you say.  Sometimes, and this may sound utterly ridiculous, but one of the reason's why it is tough to quit is because sometimes the cigerette to the smoker is a friend...a trusted friend.

Secondly, the stigma associated with smokers sometimes can be cruel and heartless...mean comments and such.  And perhaps to, that should serve a lesson up to us smoker's to perhaps understand and be more patient when we feel animosity towards others, but the fact is, we smokers are human beings as well...and my point is, do some really extensive research on alcohol and it's demeaner against mankind.  I just feel, from my heart, that attacking smokers or making statements like "I hate smokers" is unthinking and cruel.  The 2nd hand smoke an average person intakes, to me, realistically and honestly does not have the dangerous effects that all our earth's other pollutants have, again, such as all the garbage which is dumped in our oceans, the medical, chemical and nuclear waste.  My gosh, consider the effects of that for a moment.  Yes, cancer is most certainly arising within our society, but I beg to dispute, it is not from cigerettes, but more so, from all the chemical accidents which have occured all over our country, not to mention, nuclear testing way back when....not even our most brilliant scientists can give you an answer of how long these harmful chemicals linger within our grounds, to our food chains.  Ask yourselves, what does society use on golf course ponds and lakes to keep alge under control?  Chemicals to kill the nasty ugly weeds.  

My point is, yes, cigerettes are a hazard, but it is a person's choice, all I'm asking is to be a little more realistic and instead of blaming cigerettes, do a little research on chemicals, on our lands, in our seas, hence our food chains, our grasses, our winter and summer wheats....everything grows in and from our soils.  Has anyone ever asked themselves, why trout are no longer a natural resource in our streams, why they must be farm raised and stocked.  Has anyone lately taken a walk along a stream or tried to fish lately within those streams.  What life is there.  Put your hand in the water and pick up a rock, as we did when we were kids, there are no crayfish, much more, the miro organisums necessary for a balance to provide life in our streams and lakes are being depleated.  Why?  

I just think and believe, from my heart, cigerettes are a target and smoke screen for what is really going on in our country...b/c it would cost our nation way to much to address these critical and real problems which exisit now and are very dangerously present.  

In the state of Delaware, there are several Chemical plants...in the past 3 or 4 years, I believe there have been 2 or 3 leaks which no one knows about...yet, I guarentee, those people who live near those plants, well, lest just say, the next generation will be glowing.  So, do you understand the credibility and valitity in my words and plight...please stop acting like cigerettes are the sole cause of cancer, and this 2nd hand smoke thing...is not as dangerous as the air we are presently breathing.  The intake of chemicals to our bodies through foods is much more a hazard.  In my town alone, 3 families were effected on the same road, 1 from each family died of cancer, none of them were smokers.  My best girlfriend in the whole wide world, and a good friend of mine who I grew up with, and attended my senior prom with, both died of cancer, and they never smoked a day in their lives.  Go to a cancer research hospital and take a look at the amount of children now aflicted with the disease, and they never smoked a day in their lives.  My little cousin at the age of 7 was diagnosed with cancer, He never smoked, ever.  

Point being, cigerettes have become a smoke screen for what is really going on.  And what is really going on, and has been going on, well simply, no one even considers or addresses or asks questions????

We today, do not ask questions, we simply believe that what we are told is the truth.  Then we are quick to point fingers and blame, with slang and cruel words....

So what I'm saying is this, next time a person looks at a smoker with disgust or says, I hate smokers, please understand, I'm a pretty nice person, and I know many smokers as myself, who possess courtesy and will not smoke in their homes, nor around anyone it offends.  And if the smell of the smoke (unless you have a breathing disability) offends you that much, then I suggest you come and visit me, and take a wif of the air, which is sometimes laden with some chemical which floats right into my house from a nearby factory.  Believe me, cigerettes smell not nearly as offensive as that.  Consider your offense by cigerette smoke, a little over played...please.  

Thank you for the opportunity to express my heartfelt words and belief and for perhaps considering my thoughts.  

Nice to see you Chris...have a great day.  I love your poetry and wish you would post more here on this site.  

Love to you and yours.  Lee J.
Michelle_loves_Mike
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since 12-20-2003
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5 posted 06-23-2004 12:10 PM       View Profile for Michelle_loves_Mike   Email Michelle_loves_Mike   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michelle_loves_Mike

As a smoker...I try to be considerate,,i wont even smoke in a resteraunt that allows it,,just because smoke always travels to the non smoking section,,,,
but
if im out doors,,,,i feel its cool, and,,will stay down wind from my non puffin friends,,,
2nd hand smoke is bad,,,,agreed,,,so,,,so long as smokers keep to themselves,,,,a lil bit of common sensce/ courtousey,,,will go a long way....
p.s.
beach? never catch me on one,,,lol,I hate the sun

I wish all could find the true happiness I have found,,in the eyes of Mike

serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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6 posted 06-23-2004 02:11 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

It was hard for me to get excited about the proposed beach laws too.

(I'm compulsive "sweeper"--when I see a beach all I see is a ton of WORK)

and although with all of that sand, it does seem like the ultimate ashtray--I cringe when I think of careless smokers flicking cigs and all those bare feet.

But yes, second hand smoke is harmful and not to mention annoying. Yet I never understood why courtesy had to be legislated.

I'm a smoker and if I think I'm bothering somebody I'll walk quite a bit away to enjoy my "fix."

As a matter o fact, the addition of my room to the "other" house is the only smoking area in the house. I was also given my own air conditioner.

As for the BEACH? It never seemed like fun to me to sit on a towel next to a towel in sea of towels and BAKE.

Shrug.

I'd druther have a mountain lake and do a little bass fishing m'self.

GG
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since 12-03-2002
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Lost in thought


7 posted 06-23-2004 02:30 PM       View Profile for GG   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for GG

It may be a persons choice to smoke, but there's no way you can say that it isn't a choice that effects others. It's true that there are other things that are worse and other things they need to focus on, but that doesn't make them focusing on smoking wrong.

I have four neighbors and if any one of them lights a cigarette outside I have to go inside and close all the windows, no matter which way the wind is blowing. It's not like I can go to them and tell them it bothers my breathing because if they didn't do it outside then they'd be inside where their children are. A good friend of mine has asthma so bad that if we go on a walk, we have to watch for smokers and if we breathe in the smoke before we can get away from it, eve n with an inhaler, he has trouble breathing all day... we end up going home unable to do anything else.

So you can say it's your choice... but it effects the choices we can make and the things we can do, too.

Always, Alyssa
Denise
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8 posted 06-23-2004 10:55 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I think you may be onto something Lee. I read a study somewhere awhile back that the Japanese smoke far-and-way more than Americans do, but there is virtually no cancer in Japan. The study cited a lack of polluting industrial smokestacks and such that we have here that they either don't have or don't have as many of, can't really remember, it was quite awhile ago, and their far healthier diet, overall.

Anyway, while I think it is always of utmost importance to be considerate of those around us, especially around those with health problems, I think the 'regulating' has gone way overboard. The other day I saw an anti-smoking commericial that was flashing images and words on the screen. At one point the word "illegal" flashed up, alone all by itself.  A few seconds went by and then the words "if you are under 18" flashed on the screen. I thought, well how's that for subliminal mind control? (I'll bet Hillary is behind this. No wonder Bill slept around. Poor guy couldn't even enjoy a cigar in his own house. ) Slowly indoctrinate people with the thought "illegal" in connection with nicotine, and next thing you know the powers-that-be will be trying to make it illegal. *sigh* So I guess if we're still alive we'll be spending our golden years in the slammer...and without our cigarettes!!!!

Geesh, it's enough to make you...need a cigarette!!!!  
LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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9 posted 06-24-2004 09:28 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

  Denise, thank you, I'm with ya girl, you read between the lines.   Many thanks!

People are so caught up in this obsession today and yes, it is a form of brainwashing.  People do not seem to grasp the real truth of what is really going on.  

Smoke screens (no pun intended), and deterrents....if people only began to think for themselves, research and ask questions?  We are so apt to immediately believe everything we read and hear on TV.   I constantly shake my head and wonder, “how insulting, do people really believe this stuff”?  

I quit smoking for a bit, some years ago, and yes, the smoke bothered me a little, but not to the point, I allowed it to cause me to cough or (hate) the idea of it so much, that if I caught a whiff it ruined my life for the next few moments or entire day?

It has become way too obsessive & over played and my point is this.  There are far more subjects at hand, that are lethal and toxic...Chemicals, nuclear waste, garbage, and preservatives in our foods.  

I'm going to try this again, please bear with me...

Please consider nuclear waste, there is "NO" safe level of that kind of waste.  I'm inviting anyone, to go back in history and research the nuclear bomb testing that went on, right here in America. You’ve all got computers, take a gander.

Also, please consider this scenario for a moment….

Lived on a lake and it was overrun with algae.  Disgusting, to say the least!  All around us were crop fields, translating, pesticides and fertilizers, year after year, washing into our lake (as we were situated at the lowest level), hence, into our water table.  Now, for any of you who have wells instead of city water, think about it.  Underground streams, water tables, your well water?

The residents who were moving in from the cities wanted a quick fix and a clear lake to swim in.  They hired a chemical company who guaranteed they would comb the lake once a month with their chemicals which would kill the weeds and clear the lake to a beautiful mirror, and was safe to swim in?  

Now,  dumping those chemicals in the lake not only killed the weeds, but also killed fish, minnows, cray fish and all micro organisms needed to fight bacteria and keep natural balance.  

The chemical company quietly came in with their boat and 55 gal drums and took all the dead floating fish away.  Otherwise the smell would have been worse then the algae. Adding, right afterwards, people and their children were swimming in that lake?  Are you grasping the idiotic leverage here?  Without exahageration, hundreds of floating dead fish…55 gal drums full of them?  People and their children swimming in that stuff (chemicals) afterwards, because the chemical company said it was safe to???????  Why would they lie?  Sheeeshhhh!

This went on, year after year and is still going on, lest I remind you, I’m only talking about one small lake?   There are many lakes and golf courses in our country who do the very same thing.  

I consulted a chemist and biologist about this, and they said, no one, no one knows how long these deadly chemicals stay in the ground before they dissipate, if they even do, or their effects?  

We home owners had wells, which fed off of the natural springs, which fed the lake and other lakes around us?  Think about it?  

How many of you have decks?  Or how many neighbors have decks.  Do you realize the deadly chemicals in pressure treated lumber?  They tell you not to burn that lumber b/c the effects on your lungs could be devastating.  And yet, year after year…all those chemicals are washed off, little by little every time it rains, into the ground, into the underground streams and into the water table? I kid you not!  

The effects and rise of diseases are the hard core facts...cancer is on an upswing and more and more children are being affected.  Not to mention, orphan diseases that no one knows much about.  I know this, b/c I know some parents who have children with rare diseases.  It is heart breaking, but their stories of all the sick children they see in these research hospitals is astounding, especially to them, because they see it with their own eyes.  I’ve been told that they never began to realize how many thousands of children are fatally sick until they saw it with their own eyes, and then in desperation they ask, “What’s going on here”?

People/children are dieing...and it is not b/c of smoking or 2nd hand smoke or because there are more people today.  

When people believe they've found a cause, like smoking, they figure, ok, that's settled now we can move forward.  We'll simply blame smoking and that will stop this epidemic.  Well, it hasn't and it won't b/c the horrific upswing of cancer and rare diseases such as MS, epilepsy, immune system deficiencies etc. are caused I believe with my heart, by what is in the ground, our water, our food and air.

Also, there are a lot of people out there who have a lot of time on their hands and truly believe they are dedicating their time to a good cause by fighting the smoker.  I don’t believe they are doing it to be mean, but honestly believe in their cause because someone else told them so.  Adding, yes, people do die from smoking but not to the degree that they would lead you to believe….and compared to these other diseases I’ve opened your eyes to, I hope.  

Now, I’ve got another eye opener for you.  Year after year, thousands of people are moving out of the city, to the country for peace and quiet.  Out in the country there is no main septic system.  So, people there have holding tanks, and the overflow, washes into the ground, into the underground streams and into the water table, and these same people have wells from which they draw they’re water?????  Think about it folks?  Thousands of homes, believe me, I’ve seen it.  And there are no major plans in these areas for any central septic plants or systems in the immediate future????  

I wish, really wish, people, like Hillary Clinton and other so called people who consider themselves environmentalists would research these issues.  But, most people have no clue, or have even begun to consider these EFFECTS.

So, the next time, perhaps smoking bothers you, consider the foods you’re eating and the water you’re drinking or swimming in...And think about all the chemicals you’re consuming, silently entering your body, your genes, without any concept of how long you and your children will serve as host.  

Just because you can't smell it, doesn't mean it isn't there.  We could call it, the invisible silent killer...that will harm our generations for years.  And no one, but no one is asking questions about it because they are not aware, not to mention, it would cost our politicians millions to remedy these real problems and the chemical companies are profiting billions.

Yet, they continue to ignore, the overall effects, despair and sadness liquor and hard core drugs has on society.  The devastation it has on families, children and the toll it takes on their loved ones?? How ignorant is that?

Don't hate the smokers, I ask you to please please please think about the contaminants in the ocean, the next time your swimming in that water or lakes....and consider the things they never tell you about.  I’ve seen it with my own eyes, tons and tons of waste being dumped in the oceans everyday off huge barges along the east coast, right out along the horizon, day after day.  How long does one think this will continue with no effect?

Boy, I really, wish, all these toxins had an odor like cigarettes, perhaps then, closing your windows would prove to you, that there is no escaping its effects.  I’m not being insulting here, but in reality, stating a truth.  If these toxins had the odor a cigarette had, can you even begin to imagine the magnification of smell?    

We are being bombarded by the media and TV about smoking, but I promise you, it is not the killer "they" would like you believe.  How completely idiotic we have become, to actually ignore what is really going on here and the overall big picture of the effects of a clear and present danger…a real killer!

My chances of leaving this life from smoking are greater, yes...but instead of this insatiable obsession with smokers, let’s think about what is causing all these rising orphans diseases in our children, children like Matte!    How long will it take until we realize, his disease and the diseases of thousands of other children is not b/c of second hand smoke or smokers.  How long will it take before we start researching these issues ourselves and deny the real causes and effects?  Remember the movie Silkwood or Erin Brockovich?  Those were true stories, true accounts.  Do you believe they were isolated accounts?

Did you know, that years ago, MS was considered only a woman’s disease?  Do you know how many men have lately come down with the disease, it’s overwhelming!

We are such a passive nation, we hear about things as such; we tend to say, oh, isn’t that sad…or awful and then go about our daily lives, never allowing it to cross our minds again.  We don’t like to face bad stuff, much more; we ignore it and forget it quickly even if we are made to face it.  And “they” control us with fear!  Until, that fateful day, when something as such touches our own family.  

Let me remind you, these uprising diseases have just begun and are “not” caused by the devil, or some fluke, but…by the hand of man, not 2nd hand smoke or cigarettes.

And as far as those who deem it necessary to put their cigarette butts out in the sand…I say, Shame on You, but stress seriously, that with all the smokers quitting today, there are less and less cigarettes & butts & 2nd hand smoke out there.  But, more and more bottles, cans and paper waste, your just not opening your eyes and looking.  Why?, Because it’s something no one wants to address.  Next time your out with the family for that ride in the country, take a look at the side of the road….or visit a beach after 6 p.m. and take a gander at the garbage, left behind.  

See it with you eyes, look for the culprit, and please stop ignoring what is going on.  Enough with the smoking, and lets get down to the core of this problem.  Please stop believing everything you hear on TV and the newspapers, they’ve actually taught you to hate smokers and very aptly leave out all information concerning chemical plant accidents over the past 5 years and all the stuff they’re dumping in the ground.  If you see something report it, demand it be investigated, grab a neighbors hand and ask them to witness for you…believe me, if enough people open the doors, the good people will come in.  Everyone’s simply afraid.  

All I ask is that it start here, with you and me.    We’ve got to start working as a community and require them to do their jobs.  We’ve got to become more aware and demand and bombard the media stressing we want the truth, the whole truth and they start reporting what’s really going on, instead of their opinions and the opinions of their owners.  

Smokers are not the horrible killers and inconsiderate people they would have you believe, I promise.  We’re people to, and we’re being discriminated against, if you ask my opinion.  We’re being used to mask the real problems at hand, and they’ve taught you to hate us and immediately recognize the smell of smoke and process it in your mind as a killer.  Believe it, don’t fear it, cause it’s already been going on for years…but learn about it and fight it, and please, don’t believe everything you hear.  Ask questions…go further, cause they are insulting our intelligence for wealth, power and material gain…they’ve got us right where they want us, and we have no one to blame but ourselves, for allowing it to happen.  All I ask, is that you think about it, seriously, and remember, just because I smoke, doesn’t mean that I don’t have a lot of other good qualities and I’m certainly not going to run up to you and blow smoke in your face…that is unless your nasty to me.  Smile

Thanks a bunch for taking the time to read and consider and for adding to this discussion
We are connected all of us, and yes, what we all do, effects the other, in every decision, every word, the way we raise & condition our children, and the way we see the world.  
Sudhir Iyer
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since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


10 posted 06-24-2004 09:56 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

This may be out of the topic of discussion but...

Denise, what I don't understand is why would you want to bring this into the topic of discussion?

"I'll bet Hillary is behind this. No wonder Bill slept around. Poor guy couldn't even enjoy a cigar in his own house"

I don't think anybody needed that bit of  spin-off!
----------

Regards
Sudhir
GG
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Lost in thought


11 posted 06-24-2004 08:20 PM       View Profile for GG   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for GG

I don't think anyone in here is going to sit and tell you that smoking is the key cause of the world's health and breathing problems. And not one of us will deny the fact that there are other issues far more dangerous; core subjects that need to be dealt with. But why be so defensive over something that, although not horrible, is still bad? Smoking is still a pollutant and smoking still kills.

I live close to a mill and every day I watch smoke and steam billowing out of the top of it. For miles surrounding any person can smell it, and it stinks! They should deal with that, it's wrong. Smoking is wrong, too.

I don't hate smokers, my sister even smokes! My sister also stores some of her old clothes and things in the garage - I can't be in there more then a few minutes. It is more noticable because of the strong smell that comes from cigarettes, but even if the smell wasn't there... pictures of the lungs can prove to you that smoking is harmful. Other things are worse, everyday I breathe and eat toxins... but the fact that there is worse, doesn't mean that what is bad should be acceptable.

I like to be able to walk on a beach with my friends and not struggle back home holding my friend up as he uses his inhaler. That may happen without smoke near, but it'll definitely happen if smoke is near. I agree with other problems needing to be dealt with, but why defend something if it harms others?

Always, Alyssa


Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.
                  Joyce kilmer
nakdthoughts
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since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


12 posted 06-24-2004 08:55 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

personally...and what I am dealng with now as are all my family members...if you had to watch someone only 61 dying a slow lingering cancerous death, as I am  right now with my sister, who can't swallow without choking and coughing and is nothing but a skeleton with skin over her bones, who hasnt eaten in  over a month...you might think twice about smoking...

and the effects of second hand smoke are at the least nauseating...

smoking around young children as many parents do, affects their health...contributing to asthma.

That is not to say that there are other products and environmental hazards affecting the generations that may be equal to or worse...but some are more easily controlled than others.

just a venting of sorts after reading some of the postings here

of course right now I am a bit biased
but I was a former smoker over 25 years ago who
said once cigarettes cost more than 50 cents a pack
I was  quitting...and I have never regretted it.

M
LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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13 posted 06-25-2004 07:55 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

M...I am very very sorry to hear of your family's hurt and despair.  Yes, I do know the pain you are all going through.  The hurt is unbearable at times.  Please know, that my prayers are with all of you.  

********************************************

Allyssa

But why be so defensive over something that, although not horrible, is still bad?
*********************************************

Well, Allyssa, Please allow me to explain...

we have smoking stations outside our work facility, which in my mind, is the right thing to do.  

But, there are many at work who are closet smokers, actually afriad to smoke at work, without exagheration, b/c we smokers are so put down and looked at like we're criminals or less then desirable people.  

We constantly hear how awful we are for smoking and how we're killing other people with our 2nd hand smoke, how offensive we are and the looks of hate are very real. The comments of "I Hate Smokers" are very real.
    
There is one gal so afraid her group will find out she smokes, that it causes her fear & stress.  My goodness, do you realize how ridiculous this is?

She says, "they really make me feel that smokers are bad people, low life.  They're comments are cruel and unthinking, and you should hear them complaining that we smoke outside"?  "They've actually called HR and complained about this.  Now, they're inside, we're outside and not hurting anyone"?

I worked for a woman who upon finding out I smoked became cruel and barely talked to me after that.  I left the postion.  Same has happened to others.  Why?  Why so narrow-minded that you would allow it to effect your opinion of someone's character?  I'm not a theif, taking drugs, nor stopping for a drink after work and driving home a little less aware?  

I have lost two friends and 2 family members to cancer, and none of them ever smoked.

Cancer IS a cruel disease, and the point I'm trying to make is while it is bad, it is certainly not the cancer causing agent that they would have you believe.  

People are dying, children are dying, and yet, there are less smokers every year, due to the rising costs and awful stigmas.    

I suppose my purpose here is to try and raise awareness that although cigerettes are bad...they're cause of cancers are a drop in the bucket compared to the rise in cancers and other fatal diseases rising in our children...our children...and no one is asking why and where does it all come from?  

This is not normal nor an act of a metaphysical force.  It is though, by the hands of man and very real, please believe that.

Compounded, all the issue I've mentioned here in our water (fresh & saltwater), in our soil, the chemicals put in our foods, to preserve...the chemicals used in lakes, the pollution and effects of raw sewage in our water tables, the pesticides, fertilizers, all the treated lumber we've built our decks with?  Not to mention, the illegal dumping of hazardous wastes and materials, and fertilizers.  I mean, they actually tell you, don't burn treated lumber??????  The agents released from burning treated lumber is lethel to your lungs.  Does anyone know the compounds in treated lumber?  

My Goodness, is anyone doing the math, here?  Cigerettes are a drop in the bucket compared to all these other agents combined?

Why is our society ignoring these lethal issues?

Can no one understand the effects all of these things have?  Or is it that no one believes it's true?  Or is it that we know it's true but we attack smokers because it's our scape goat, to release anger and frustration, point fingers and blame something, someone...anything but admit to ourselves that we are headed for trouble.  

Can someone honestly explain to me why no one is understanding what is going on?  And to be candid, I've just begun to touch the tip of the ice burg here and I believe some of you know what I'm talking about.

I'm a fisherwoman, there is nothing like fresh fish, but refuse to eat any fish I catch. I throw them back.    

Is it fear of persecution for speaking up?  Or just plain fear that we won't be accepted, that we'll be rejected by others b/c we're speaking up for a real case that is very serious?    

My concern is our future, and the future of our children...and I'm asking you all to simply take a look at what I've written about and consider for a moment all these other cancer and disease causing agents and forget about cigerettes and the smokers for a moment.  Please...those movies I mentioned above were very real and not isolated cases, believe me...it's very true and going on.
Cigerettes are not the killer they would like you to believe.  Not compared to these other deadly chemicals in our environment.

So when I see an article in the newspaper, which headlines read...no more smoking on beaches, I think shhheessshhhh, how utterly ridiculous...when are people going to notice those barges out on the horizon day after day, dumping garbage and medical waste in the ocean?  Tons of garbage, tires, etc.  

Thank you for the opportunity to express, I hope that I have not offended anyone by my opinions and I thank you all for yours.    
  
    

  

serenity blaze
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14 posted 06-25-2004 11:59 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Denise?

"Slowly indoctrinate people with the thought "illegal" in connection with nicotine, and next thing you know the powers-that-be will be trying to make it illegal."

I've heard that same logic applied to marijuana, cocaine & heroin--all of which were legal in the United States at one time.

But that's another argument, I suppose...and giggle, my head still smarts from the last time you & I bumped 'em. grin...and lately, alas, I just don't have the time.

But you are one smart lady, even if we often see things from opposite ends of the spectrum.

Denise
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15 posted 06-26-2004 07:40 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Lee, yep, I think we're on the same wave length about the issue. It's been blown way out of all proportion in my opinion.

Hey, Sud, I brought it into the thread because it had stuck in my mind that the first thing Hillary did upon moving into the White House was to immediately ban all smoking, post-haste, even Bill's cigars! I'm sorry if my attempt at humor stuck in your craw. It tends to be on the dry side!

Yeah, some folks around here seem to have a problem from time to time with my logic, Serenity. Oh well. As for marijuana and the harder drugs too? I don't see that making them illegal solved anything? And I'm sorry about your head! Didn't mean to do it, nope, didn't mean to do it!

LeeJ
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16 posted 07-22-2004 02:10 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

you know, I just learned a woman with a college degree mind you, a masters...made the following comment about our CEO who smokes

Quote:
"I'm surprised they would hire someone like that for the job"
UnQuote:?????????

Where is the common sense in this statement...you mean to tell me he's not going to be compitent for the position b/c he smokes??????

Please, someone, help me, I'm melting!  

You now, there are less & less people who smoke everyday, and more then likely, I will die from smoking...but there are far more things in this world to concern yourself with like

Knee injuries...do you know how many fellas I know who have had knee injuries from playing high school football?  Has anyone even begun to realize how many knee replacements are done each year?

Knee injuries from jogging....knee surgery and knee replacements from being overweight?
My gosh...I know people who smell a little bit of cigerette smoke in the air and are bound and determined they're gonna die from it.

and hey, how bout all those people who stop after work for a drink or two at Happy Hour?
Driving home a little less conscious then before they stopped?

Oh, and lest we forget those chemicals in foods that were actually growing breasts on young boys...yes, thats true

You know, my point here is this, and please understand, I do not mean to be sarcastic, but people have got to wake up to the propaganda and the real problems at hand.  
Not to mention, the brain washing going on, by television and the news media...
and all the dreadful things going on in this country, to me, smoking is such a small subsidiary of the entire big picture?  Yes

Hey thanks a bunch to you all for your input, honest feelings and ideas on the subject.  Have a wonderful day, just think, tomorrows Friday...Yippppeeeeeee

Kaoru
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17 posted 07-23-2004 01:09 AM       View Profile for Kaoru   Email Kaoru   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kaoru

Well, I quit smoking since I got pregnant, but I was a smoker and I guess I could put in my two cents.

I know that second hand smoke is harmful..I tried my best to always make it more comfortable for non-smokers if I needed to. Example, when my grandmother would come visit, all smoking would go outside instead of inside.

I think any place that let's people smoke inside should have their own choice whether or not to continue to allow smoking in their facility. It shouldn't be something that's forced upon them by someone else's choice.

It kind of upsets me even now, because it's almost like smokers are being segregated. The Minneapolis airport has one teeny tiny smoking section outside..that means more than 20 smokers at a time have to squish together on a small square of cement and smoke. There are no benches to sit in, no shade and one small public ashtray. It seems almost like a slap in the face, and like the whole non-smoking world is saying that smokers are not accepted because they're "horrible" or "wrong".

We all have the right to our personal choices, healthy or not. I mean, the Atkins diet is so popular right now that it drives me crazy to go in to my favorite restaurant and see several low-carbohydrate meal options.. so why can't I just go in and say to my waitress, "Hey, those dieters are bothering me, could you please move them to the small un-airconditioned Atkins section"?

Should I make them go outside and sit in a little protected glass box? Should I deny them the comfort that the rest of us have because of their personal decisions? No, that's not my place, nor is it the place of anyone else. Common courtesy is not hard to aquire, and if you smoke, you know when and where not to just by your instinct.

I'm sure a lot of you might disagree with a lot that I've said.. but I also think that we are given a choice for a reason. If they illegalize cigarettes, what's stopping them from illegalizing every single other unhealthy freedom that we have? How would you feel if one day, you couldn't order a big juicy steak because it's not good for you?

*sigh*
Denise
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18 posted 07-23-2004 06:05 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The Philadelphia airport has banned smoking altogether now, even though prior to that you could only smoke in the couple of bars there. I think it would be nice if they provided at least one well-ventilated room for the smokers where non-smokers wouldn't be affected by the smoke or the smell. Then everyone would be happy!


quote:
If they illegalize cigarettes, what's stopping them from illegalizing every single other unhealthy freedom that we have?


Nothing, Kaoru. It reminds me of the incident a few years ago when the State of New Jersey outlawed "over-easy" and "soft-boiled" eggs because there was some evidence that they might potentially contain salmonella due to not being cooked long enough. And I believe that the city of Princeton, N.J. banned smoking in the entire city, including all outdoor areas, except within the confines of one's own home. I think the egg thing was rescinded, but I haven't heard anymore on the Princeton issue.
serenity blaze
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19 posted 07-23-2004 06:07 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

The day secondhand yolk has been proven to be a carcinogen I might concede your point, Denise.

wranx
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20 posted 07-23-2004 10:56 AM       View Profile for wranx   Email wranx   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for wranx

State governments now find themselves as addicted to cigarettes as any smoker...Smoking is a huge source of tax revenue. Not to mention the immense penalties that "Tobacco" has, and is paying them from lawsuits.

Nope, smoking (and drinking, another "cash cow") will never be outlawed, for this, if for no other reason. We (smokers and drinkers) will just be made pariahs, looked down on, and "controlled".
LeeJ
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21 posted 07-23-2004 11:07 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I wonder what would happen if we'd sue back and fight for our rights that were taken away on the premise that now we are minorities?????

You know, I agree Denise, my mother has a lung disease, and feel that my smoking has always been mindful of others....It just amazes me at the narrow mindedness of people actually believing that b/c your a smoker it will greatly influence your performance as an employee

And then, there are those that smell smoke and become enraged...hey, walk away if the smoke is REALLY THAT DISTURBING, we're outside, and if one only knew what they were inhaling, none of which is from cigerettes.

And those people who say so smugly, Oh I hate smokers...geeze louise?  Where is their mentality?  Where are their priorities that they actually allow something as such to control their happiness, outlook on the day or their desire to control smokers so much so, to walk by a smoking shack and actually pretend to cough, please...my own 86 year old mother doesn't complain as such and she would have every reason to?

I am the only child that smokes, by the way, none of my others siblings do, nor did ever my mom and dad...or my grand parents.  

Sigh....so much for education and allowance..I wonder sometimes if people would take that energy and place it in some of the real causes at hand.  Wow!  

Essorant
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22 posted 07-24-2004 01:47 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

It's never untimely to quit.  
serenity blaze
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23 posted 07-24-2004 07:44 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Essorant?



My father died of lung cancer and he protested the existance of his oxygen tank--saying, "I gotta ween myself off of that thing."

He succeeded.
Dopey Dope
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24 posted 07-25-2004 10:09 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Ill be brief...

people smoke

You can't just tell them not to smoke on a beach, its public, and it's in the out doors.

Telling people not to smoke while outside, in a public area is like revoking their free will to do as they please.

If you don't like smokers- dont stand next to one.

I left my wallet in El Segundo...
And I gotta get it
I got got to get it!

 
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