How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 pipTalk Lounge
 adaptation
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

adaptation

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


0 posted 12-25-2003 01:13 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I just watched the movie "Adaptation" starring Nicholas Cage and Meryl Streep. Actually, I only caught bits and pieces of it, but there is a scene where the screenwriter character played by Mr. Cage realizes with horror that he's "written himself into his screenplay." He rants on calling himself names, including "pathetic" and "self-indulgent."

Then I was reminded of a thread wherein Local Parasite (whose opinion I respect much) said this while recommending the poetry of b squirrel (no arguement there either, I also love Mike's work)

but it was this part that made me wonder:

"he's the best dark poet I've read on this site, and almost never contaminates his work with personal issues"

First I'm curious as to how anyone can be sure of what inspires an author--and I'm baffled as to how one can even FIND inspiration outside of personal experience. We can only make a soup with the ingredients we have, yes?

I've spoke with other fine authors from this site who also feel that cathartic writing is self-indulgent.

And I'm getting around to my question. (It may take four years, but I'll get there )

Is there something wrong with writing from a personal standpoint? And if there is, is there any possible way to avoid that? And further, would I really be a better writer if I did?

How can I write "tone" without basing my work on some underlying personal emotion/experience? I don't understand how I could expect my audience to connect with me as "the storyteller" while maintaining the distance that would require. I have also read many fine pieces of work, that while the author dazzled me with the brilliance of the mechanics, I was left feeling "thirsty" because the emotion was absent. In short, I have read many works which had the mechanics of writing down near- to-perfect but lacked the heart that I find satisfying as a reader.

I always thought one of my goals as a writer should be to make the connection of a seemingly unique situation universal--I write with the hope that someone will read  and nod agreement, saying, "exactly." And I don't know how to write without using that method--I write inspired by "emotional triggers" and now I'm questioning whether or not I should.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


1 posted 12-25-2003 02:07 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


Good Grief Gertrude.  You expect a sensical answer after I've been filled with food?  Let me go fix a good toddy, ponder your question, and come back to this...

Oh by the way.  Merry Christmas!
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


2 posted 12-25-2003 02:11 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

"Gertrude?"

and yes, that reminds me of a story...

chuckle

See what I mean?

Merry Christmas, Sunshine.
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


3 posted 12-25-2003 02:53 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

quote:
Catharsis: 2a: the purification or purgation of the emotions (as pity and fear) primarily through art.
Source: Webster's Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, 1976.

I would have to say that a good chunk of cathartic writing basically boils down to 'getting this off my chest', though there are others that belong to the 'piss 'n moan' club. If a strict view is taken, then cathartic poetry is purely about self and exhibitionism, with the reader being the willing voyeur. This does not include those who write from an autobiographical slant, unless, again, they are purging an emotional load.

Personally, I try to abstain from writing cathartic pieces, but there's little to be done to prevent the reader from seeing catharsis within the work...short of disclaimers. However, if a reader is moderately well versed in a poet's style, then they might well know if poems in a certain genre or voice are indeed cathartic or not, as writing in the first person is not indicative of catharsis being perpetrated.
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


4 posted 12-25-2003 05:36 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Not to quibble (but I will, chuckle)

"a good chunk of cathartic writing basically boils down to 'getting this off my chest', though there are others that belong to the 'piss 'n moan' club"

wouldn't this be one of those fine line distinctions that fall under the heading of subjective?

Hmmm...I find myself trying to re-phrase my question in my mind, because methinks if I find the answer unsatisfying then I worded my question(s) badly. and speaking of disclaimers? none of this has anything to do with anyone's work other than me trying to define what my goals are as a writer. (sigh..even that sounds lofty, huh?)

I think I'm confused again.

As I understand catharsis as applied to my own work, I do believe I agree. If not, I wouldn't have been burning all those marble notebook pages the past few days that were filled with a nauseating blue Christmas diatribe. But is such writing always a negative?

I realize I prolly sound defensive too, but I've been thinking too much again. Is it a bad thing to say, "this is how I feel about this"--and does something that simple in presentation negate any worth of artistry? Or is that just considered too easy?

For a long time my only "process" to writing was to sit here and try to figure out what I was feeling and then try to convey that as distinctly as I was able.

But lessseeeeee...I'm exploring here, Ali, bear with me. Elia Kazan--"On the Waterfront"--is it less artworthy because he found catharsis in the statement of the vehicle? And further, Arthur Miller's answer, "The Crucible"?

(not comparing my crappy how-blue-is-me poetry to them, of course, but I think you see what I'm getting at. You usually do see what I'm getting at, even when I don't. )

On occasion, here at Pip, I confess I tried doing what I thought of as writing exercize. When there were fewer forums, I would attempt to write a poem in every forum (nod--straight to keys of course) using appropriate mood and tone for each forum.

But while I did indeed distance myself emotionally from what I was feeling "at the moment", I had to "summon" up inspiration from the past, and "re-live" it in order to achieve the proper frame of mind to write from what I considered to be an honest place of spirit to be even touch each subject. (Much as a method actor would)

And I'm not asking questions to make any point, just exploring here, in as honest a state of befuddlement as I have ever been.)

So now will someone please tell me just what the hell am I talking about?

sighs and smiles


Thanks Ali.

I'm still over here doing this--

Now if only I could learn to type with my forehead...

Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


5 posted 12-25-2003 06:02 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

It is possible to type with your forehead...just calls for a really large keyboard.

Cathartic writing is not, in and of itself, a bad thing. It is a needed thing. It's how we let off steam or finally give voice to something without words. Inarticulate scream of frustration chained down by ink. And, at times, such can reach out to those who have yet to find the words and understanding dawns, as well as capacity for giving voice to their own internal daemons.

The distiction can be hard to find though, betwixt catharsis and fiction. In such cases, I'll generally refer to the 'speaker' of the piece, but not the writer, unless I then move on to structure and form. Howsoever, this does not detract from the artistry, for by the very action of penning anything, we are putting part of ourselves into the work: views, images, vocabulary, expressions, methodology, experience. Some of those aspects will differ, especially if one was to compare the handwritten original with the screen text. Then there would be inflection, ink pressure, edits, scribble and doodles.

So I don't feel that writing in a cathartic fashion detracts from the overall process of writing. It's merely a facet of the entire gem, just like writing 'my views on this subject and here's why'.
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


6 posted 12-25-2003 06:29 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I guess it was the negative connotation that had me going there.

And I'll be back...I'm being paged.

(You would not believe the chaos that erupts over here, all chain reacted by a knock at the door)

But then I bet ya would.

Later m'friend.
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


7 posted 12-25-2003 08:17 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I believe the answer is yes and no. There! Solved that one!


Actually, it is the answer. Some writers put their life into their poetry and some writers put life into their poetry. See the difference? I may be able to write about being abused as a child or an adult but was I? No. I FEEL it. I empathize with the feelings of those who went through it. If I had been abused would I be able to write about it? Now that I'm not sure of...I can't write about my grandson and he is the dearest part of my heart. I can write about love but I'm not IN love. I can write about the pain of not being loved because in my heart, I know I am not loved.

Does Stephen King have a warped life to be able to write the way he does? NO. Just an incredibly vivid imagination. Is there room for imagination in poetry. Yes!

So again, the answer is yes and no.

Find YOUR voice, what works best for you and don't quibble about what's right or wrong. Because there is no right or wrong...there is only poetry from your heart...
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


8 posted 12-25-2003 09:02 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Ummm...several interruptions since, I come back to find that Poet deVine has, I believe, fallen upon, or brought up [according to one's state of mind at this time of evening] the exact answer.  Yes and No.

And I couldn't have done better, myself.
brian sites
Senior Member
since 06-25-2002
Posts 1500
usa


9 posted 12-25-2003 10:43 PM       View Profile for brian sites   Email brian sites   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brian sites

you are asking us humans...
if you are human

doubts
doubts

why do we doubt if what we write is valid?

it is all...

I am not a professional poet
I don't consider ANYTHING I do
professional...
even what I get paid to do..grin
but nevermind

my two cents?
we CAN abstract to an undefinable degree
about others' experiences
but basically
we boil poetry/writing down
to what we KNOW...
or LOVE

as said before Stephen King has written things that he hasn't experienced..but imagined...
but I have read him say that he always loved
the emotion of fear..of the darkness of the human spirit...fascinated....

so even if we write something ..of another's shoes..(that we haven't walked in)
there are threads that connect us all
some aspect that can translate to our experience...

and no
I haven't said ANYTHING to the
quote ART endquote
of (great big granite block letters)-
Poetry

some hold this to higher degrees of importance than others

if it is form..rather than substance that you are talking about...then ignore this..because I haven't a clue as to forms
I suck at pungshu-ashyun
ok
I ramble like a Sunday Bruncher
sigh
grin

DING!
fries are done
Krawdad
Member Elite
since 01-03-2001
Posts 2627


10 posted 12-25-2003 11:23 PM       View Profile for Krawdad   Email Krawdad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Krawdad

I pretty much don't know why I write anymore and worse than that I'm truely baffled about why I don't.

But this is an interesting discussion.

So, does it matter what I write?  I guess not, not to me, other than as an opportunity for recording self-conversation.
And . . . ahhh . . . maybe that's the problem

Oh, where's the plug to this stupid thing . . .
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


11 posted 12-26-2003 01:02 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Thanks all for the input, and I will be thinking more on this before the next question...

yer all dolls.

Nightshade
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 08-31-2001
Posts 14673
just out of reach


12 posted 12-26-2003 02:02 PM       View Profile for Nightshade   Email Nightshade   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nightshade's Home Page   View IP for Nightshade


  what was the question?



[This message has been edited by Nightshade (12-26-2003 02:04 PM).]

Martie
Moderator
Member Empyrean
since 09-21-1999
Posts 28608
California


13 posted 12-26-2003 02:35 PM       View Profile for Martie   Email Martie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Martie's Home Page   View IP for Martie

When I was a preteener ( is that a word?) I was given an award at summer camp for "adaptability".  At the time I thought it was a good thing....was it?

  
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


14 posted 12-26-2003 03:57 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Martie?

grinning here.

I've always thought of myself as "oblivious"--maybe I just adapt quickly?

I really should lay off the thinkin'.

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


15 posted 12-26-2003 08:46 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Does what you write make YOU nod?

Your stated objective made me nod...
Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


16 posted 12-27-2003 01:54 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

Is there something wrong with writing from a personal standpoint? And if there is, is there any possible way to avoid that? And further, would I really be a better writer if I did?


==========

KA?  ------>


http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum44/HTML/001227.html
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum53/HTML/002879.html
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum53/HTML/001615.html
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum69/HTML/000462.html
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum80/HTML/000231.html
baby...if it aint broke.. dont fix it.  
Jason Lyle
Senior Member
since 02-07-2003
Posts 1519
With my darkling


17 posted 12-27-2003 05:40 PM       View Profile for Jason Lyle   Email Jason Lyle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jason Lyle

I had never heard the term "cathartic poetry" until recently.I guess I am very guilty of writing this way.I had also never, until this thread, realized it was frowned upon.
I guess I need some writers polish, If it seems self indulgent, I guess it is.I will often spin off a post here with simply what is on my mind, sober or not .
I know I write blunt and from my life, I may have missed some kind of rule that says, "don't whine to me"
I guess I have broken a rule I did not know about, but that explains alot.
I will think alot on this, perhaps I have been posting alot of "who cares about that?"

Jason
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


18 posted 12-27-2003 06:13 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Jan? I love ya m'friend.

and Jason? We've got a case and a half of beer over here, a sack of oysters, and about ten lbs. of shrimp to fry.

I think I'll eat poetry tonight.

Wanna come?
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> pipTalk Lounge >> adaptation Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors