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Passions in Poetry

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Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


1050 posted 06-30-2004 11:11 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

L@ve the pic Karilea, maybe it's the lack of sleep but the central formation, if you squint looks like a goddess statue(fitting), and the surrounding rock like worshippers ..um..yeah. shrugs

I miss photography (sighs) too expensive a hobby for me now.
Nightshade
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since 08-31-2001
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just out of reach


1051 posted 06-30-2004 11:20 PM       View Profile for Nightshade   Email Nightshade   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nightshade's Home Page   View IP for Nightshade

Gawd I luv you guys!!!
Words...yes. Words can calm and soothe or upset and cut like a knife. Words can heal and words can open old wounds. But, you Karen, did not cause a death with your words of anger and sadness.
  You know, it's strange, but as much as words have power - so does the opposite - silence. When someone gives me the "silent treatment", it drives me crazy! I cannot understand what it is that I have done to deserve it. My parents used this technique on me alot if they were disappointed in me. First they would yell, but yelling or scolding always drove my sweet mother to tears herself, so she would shut me out. Dad had a way of being silent and smoking his cigs in the dark when I came home after a dance or whatever. I would see the red glow of the ash in the blackened livingroom. Then out of the darkeness came a voice not unlike that of Humphrey Bogart..."Where have you been Durango?!" Yes, I said Durango. LOL. Nancy Lee is probably rolling with laughter right now. Dad liked to throw in that old cowboy word for special effect. LOL. Made the hair stand on end inside of my stetson hat I'll tell ya! Oh, I have gotten off track as usual.
   Anywhooo....I think that all of us have said something it the heat of anger that we wish we could take back. I know I have. All we can do it make ammends. Because, as most of us know....whatever we give out, comes back to us sometimes tenfold anyway! You can't put anything past the universe.
   I'm goin' to bed now. Happy Canada Day to all my Canuck friends tomorrow!! Hugs all round, Chrislane
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


1052 posted 06-30-2004 11:33 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Nodding and hugging Chrislane--

I just told someone in correspondence on the net, "please answer me--I equate silence with disapproval."

wow.

Me and twist sing this one to each other, remembering the darker times. Written by Carly Simon--it always reminded us of our father:

"My father sits at night with no lights on
His cigarette glows in the dark.
The living room is still;
I walk by, no remark.
I tiptoe past the master bedroom where
My mother reads her magazines.
I hear her call sweet dreams,
But I forgot how to dream."

--Carly Simon

wow.

smiles.

thanks for blooming here, Chris.


iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


1053 posted 07-01-2004 12:09 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

I remember that song.  Wissssse song, 'twas!  
Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


1054 posted 07-01-2004 09:22 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

"I equate silence with disapproval."

*nodding*

Or hate.

When I was maybe 14 yrs old my mother gave me the silent treatment for months.  I had no one and just knew she hated me.  I would try to talk to her and she would act as if I didn't exist.  I would go to my room, turn on Rod Stewart and cry.  Later, I found that she didn't hate me, she just wanted me to disappear.  She blamed me for my fathers deeds and thought if I was gone the threat was gone and life would be good again...for her.  I gave her what she wanted...I joined the Navy at 17 yrs old and she got me a suitcase for a graduation present.  

*sigh*

I am stronger now and my mother knows she messed up on some level.  

I took away their power to hurt me.  

*smile*  

But silence can still make me pause.

"cast me gently into the morning, for the night has been unkind"
~Sarah McLachlan~

[This message has been edited by Susan Caldwell (07-01-2004 10:28 AM).]

Sunshine
Administrator
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1055 posted 07-01-2004 10:23 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

But silence can still make me pause.

~*~

And yet...silence can keep me from saying the things that would hurt the most, truth being what it is.  I go silent in an argument, because sometimes there's just no winning when the other side doesn't want to see the real problem.  Stating the problem would only make the screaming louder.

But a parent's silence always seems to hurt more.  I know.  I got it, too.  The marriage to the first husband wasn't going to be "so bad" until we informed Mom that we were moving to Illinois.  [Later, I found out things about my first husband that proved my folks to be right about their concern that I would be so far away.]  So, Mom gave me [and most of the rest of the family] the silent treatment for about three months.  I finally went to Dad and said,

"can't you do something?"

I never knew what he said, exactly [although I can guess] but Mom's way of coming around was to ask, "well, are we going to get this wedding planned, or what?"

Years later I had a chance to tell her both thank you, and that I was sorry, in some ways, to know that her "red flags" over the whole matter were so right on target...

yep.  It's not easy growing up.  For either side.
Nightshade
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1056 posted 07-01-2004 10:37 AM       View Profile for Nightshade   Email Nightshade   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nightshade's Home Page   View IP for Nightshade

Hugs Serene One.  


Susan, ouch! That story hurts. Placing blame is another terrible tool to use on someone. But, you came through it - much stronger it seems. Although I don't know you well.

When I first became pregnant at age 17, it not only upset Mom and Dad and embarrassed me to no end, but it turned the relationship that I had with my Mom upside down. I had overturned the applecart. I had demolished the future. So came the silence.
  I was terribly ill the first 4 months of my pregnancy. But, especially the first two. I could not eat, nor even keep water down. No one paid any attention to me. I only talked with one person, my sister Nancy Lee, but she lived at that time in Michigan. So, it was day after day of staggering to the bathroom and back to my bed. No words exchanged from the lady whom I adored. Not even a head poking in my bedroom with those brown eyes sparkling, smile that lit up any room. Nothing.  Just nothing. I thought for certain that I was dying. And in death I would feel shame. All I did was vomit and cry. Pretty picture eh?
  My Dad finally couldn't take seeing me so sick any longer. He came into my room and said these words that sound so silly now, but were the most wonderful words to me then. He asked, "how ya perkin' perky?" "Not so good Dad" I squeaked and started to cry. With a quick touch of his magical hands to my damp cheeks, he left the room. I could hear him in the kitchen telling my Mom that I was very sick and something should be done. Things changed after that. A little. I was included in conversation and meals (if I could eat) and a wedding was planned - minus the joy that usually accompanies such a happy event.  But the cutting words were not done yet. My mother, and believe me, she was never known to be this way. Her heart was pure and she just loved people. I had killed her dreams for me and this hurt and frightened her more than anything. Afterall, she was dying of cancer and would be gone less than 10 months after my wedding.
  Her words to me about the wedding? "I will be there, but don't think I'm gonna cry!" I felt worthless.
  Now that I am older - much older - I can look back on that day and wish I could hold my mom in my arms and comfort her. You see, what I remember now after I swept all of my own hurt and anger away is.....I remember her saying that piercing sentence.....then walking swiftly away, high heels clickety, clickety(how I adored the quick little fairy steps)turning into her bedroom, slam of her door, then.......sobs. My Mom was crying. Crying as any truly, loving mom would who has just injured her child with words. I miss her so much. I just want her to know that I understand. I really, really understand. Hugs All.
   oops...hi Karilea!!
Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


1057 posted 07-01-2004 12:07 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Ah silences, i've known a few

silly humans
garysgirl
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Member Seraphic
since 09-29-2002
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Florida, USA


1058 posted 07-01-2004 01:34 PM       View Profile for garysgirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit garysgirl's Home Page   View IP for garysgirl

Before I read any further, I need to say something......

First of all I want to offer sweet Maureen my condolences for the loss of her sister and to let her know that I'm just an e-mail away...

I read the other night and saw Karilea's thought-provoking picture and couldn't say anything then....the picture and her words really touched me......

Then last night I read and couldn't say anything....then today when I read this far, I need to say something because I may not tomorrow or after I read further.........so,

Karilea said.....
As for serenity's Garden...well, I know the tour guide called it the Oriental Garden...but it sounded just so much better, MY way...

which is what you let me, and the others, do. That is, being ourselves, letting our hair down, safely, with no fear of retribution, and only for those so inclined to wade through the pages left behind in these numerous posts...you've provided a fairly safe haven...

which ROCKS!

LOL...you know my best place in the house, right? Yep...around the kitchen table...*smile*


These is so true, Karilea. It seems like we are in a place that is always open for anyone who decides to come in....and no-one is ever turned away, but welcomed with open arms. It seems so many of us need this haven......

Then, I read this that you wrote Karen, and even though the booze isn't involved with me, (though I've been very tempted of late), this is so how I've been feeling lately....and I haven't lost anyone that is close to me....

Serenity wrote.....
(For those of you who have heard the story, bear with me. I was quite insane for a quite awhile after the death of "the dads", and quite intoxicated for much of the time as well, so I no longer have any idea of to whom who I may have told this story, or how many times.)

* * *

I was reminded of it, though, as I thought of our friends who are in the fresh process of grief--that "surrealistic" layered place of being in a place and observing yourself being there simultaneously.

nod.

Most of us know that place, it's foggy and weird and you want it to be a bad dream but you know that it's not, but it has every quality of unreal, so there is still some hope that someone will come along and shake you, saying "Wake up." The hope is that the person waking us will be the person that we just "lost".

* * *
So there I was, going through the routines of life, because there is nothing else to do but go on. Everyday activity feels odd--just brushing my teeth was an exercize in concentration as I slipped in and out of the layers, first being there, then observing myself.


Yes, this is how I've been feeling of late and I don't know what to do about it.......it won't seem to go away.......

Well, I need to go for now....my head is hurting very badly and I'm going to lie down....maybe it'll go away...........I'll read more later. Know that I love all of you.....
Duncan
Member Ascendant
since 08-07-2001
Posts 5716


1059 posted 07-01-2004 03:43 PM       View Profile for Duncan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Duncan

Hey ya'll...to those who are so inclined, please say a quick prayer for the moth and her patio kittens.  Thanks...  
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


1060 posted 07-01-2004 04:03 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

So inclined, indeed...

~*~

Ladies, you've left a lot for me to feast upon...and ponder over...I'll be back to you...

in the meantime?

Welcome, Grant Thomas, 8# 7 oz, 21 and 3/4 inches, born at 1:45, my sixth grandchild, my third grandson.
Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


1061 posted 07-01-2004 04:17 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Congratulations Kari!!!!!!!

"cast me gently into the morning, for the night has been unkind"
~Sarah McLachlan~

Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


1062 posted 07-01-2004 04:21 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

pg43post1061

Is where I leave off as I am leaving tomorrow for NYC.

Love to you all!!

Keep safe and happy.

"cast me gently into the morning, for the night has been unkind"
~Sarah McLachlan~

Sunshine
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Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


1063 posted 07-01-2004 04:34 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

LOL...Susan...I'm chuckling here...have a safe trip...we'll be sure to add plenty of reading material for your return home!
Sunshine
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Member Caelestus
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Listening to every heart


1064 posted 07-01-2004 06:34 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Let’s see…ah yes…

The in-laws had “left” us their home in the “armpit of the world” home town, and not knowing better, I said “yes, we will accept your offer” of the house that, in all appearances, was a Disneyland nightmare of a bad dream.

Yes, I usually called it the Mickey Mouse home of horror.

Well, in this house….

I experienced the miracle of pregnancy and oncoming motherhood with my first child.  That’s another story.  But to frame this in its context, we’ll fast forward nine months to the baby’s birth, and the news that her paternal grandparents would “come home to see the new baby”…and she, the 13th one of their lot.

I guess I didn’t expect such exuberance over the 13th, albeit my first.

So, when June came around, so did the grandparents.  I couldn’t believe how much my father-in-law had aged in a year’s time.  And just as round as ever, bless his heart.  I had thought I had helped my mother-in-law with his overeating problem, but he had discovered how to raid the ‘fridge.  Who says old dogs can’t learn?  

And of course, there was a bit of to-do over the baby…after four days of to-doing, with me working, hubby in-between jobs [again], me coming home to feed everyone, me doing the laundry, me wondering what everyone else was doing during the day while I was at work [other than to-doing over the baby]…I couldn’t say I was sorry to see them leave to visit other family members.

A few hours after they left, we got the phone call that Dad had experienced a heart-attack.  Oh geez….

So homeward bound they were, to have Dad stay in the hospital, and Mom with us, as we were only blocks away from the hospital, as opposed to her other son who lived miles away in another town.

It was a stressful five days, and it came about that in order to save on medical expenses, the decision was made to move Dad to the VA hospital up in Chicago.  But….he didn’t want to go.  Oh my god, was he angry that we would even think of moving him to a VA hospital, “where people go to die!”

And I had a really bad feeling.  I asked Mom if I should go in and talk to him, give him something else to think about, and she turned on me, saying, “he wouldn’t be in there if we hadn’t come to see the baby!”

Oh.

Oh.

The VA ambulance came to make the transfer.  He fought them all the way.  He died, 20 miles out of town.

They came back.

Mom’s grief was evident.  All of the six brothers and sisters were reunited once again, under the roof of their family Mickey Mouse horror house.

Six brothers, and several children.  In a house of about 1000 square feet.

One of the sisters got a hotel for herself.  The others slept wherever.  I was still cooking for everyone, and felt invisible to everyone.  Nothing but the servant – feeding, cooking, washing, etc., because, after all…I wasn’t blood.

The decision for a memorial in his home town, and a funeral in Florida, was made.  I had never been to Florida, and thought I would speak quietly with my husband to find out how we were going to afford going – our car was truly not road worthy for that kind of trip.

That’s when I found out – I wasn’t going.

Simply because – we couldn’t afford it.  “I’m still unemployed – you don’t have enough vacation time.  Besides, the baby will just make a lot of noise – and Mom can’t take it.”

Oh.

OH!

The memorial service was nice, and flowers were everywhere.  Then, every potted plant and arrangement found its way to the Mickey Mouse house of horrors.  

And after almost a full two weeks of constant commotion, everyone was gone.  All six brothers and sisters, their children, and Mom.  Only the baby, myself, and floral arrangements remained, along with my guilt, over having had a baby that killed her grandfather on his first visit back home.

I tried to be rational.  I tried to convince myself that having a baby girl and having her grandfather visit was NOT the reason that he had died.  He had died…because he had a heart attack.  

I remember trying to talk to him, that first night after everyone left.  I tried to speak to the green walls [every wall was green in the house – every wall – because he had found a “sale” on war-green paint] thinking he would hear me.

I was never sure if the sound in my head was him, or what I wanted to hear.  “It was not your fault. It was my time.”

Yes, but Mom said….

Oh.  Oh.  Guilt.  One of the heaviest veils.
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


1065 posted 07-01-2004 07:39 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Ah...

Welcome to the family.

OH boy do I ever understand...

In my adventures of understanding with the in-laws, I have twisted my mind into pretzels trying--and it doesn't matter.

I'm still "weird".

So I say this like a mantra:

"They just don't know any better."

After 28 years, I still don't believe they like me much--and I tend to get quiet and observatory at "his" family reunions.

But after comparing notes, I think we've found a place of mutual respect--from a distance.

and Kari? People can say horrible things in the throes of grief.

smile?

I know.

*  *  *

and ethel? I'm here for you, if you need an ear.
Sunshine
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Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


1066 posted 07-01-2004 09:29 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

After 28 years, I still don't believe they like me much--and I tend to get quiet and observatory at "his" family reunions.

But after comparing notes, I think we've found a place of mutual respect--from a distance.

and Kari? People can say horrible things in the throes of grief.

smile?

I know.

~*~

Yep, I know you know...

that's why I shared.  

~*~

Ethel?

talk to me.  
garysgirl
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 09-29-2002
Posts 20064
Florida, USA


1067 posted 07-02-2004 01:01 AM       View Profile for garysgirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit garysgirl's Home Page   View IP for garysgirl

Be careful, Susan...and have fun!!

Karen and Karilea....
talk about the past or the present?
Sunshine
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1068 posted 07-02-2004 06:55 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Ethel...

Both.
garysgirl
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1069 posted 07-02-2004 09:59 AM       View Profile for garysgirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit garysgirl's Home Page   View IP for garysgirl

I have trouble sometimes understanding myself. How could I have loved so deeply a man for so many years that was abusing my little girl? How could I not have known what was happening? And, also, how can any good memories of mine and his life together stay in my mind? How could any good memories have even been made?

There is so much anger in my heart over the way I have found out (since he died) that he treated my daughter.

And, now, I'm allowing it to affect my relationship with my sweet, loving, and patient Gary. If I could be deceived by someone like my late husband, how do I know that I couldn't be deceived again? I thought that my heart and mind were being true to me then.

Well, I've never said that to anyone before. If I told Gary that, he would be so very hurt to think that I would even have a small thought that he would hurt me intentionally. But, he has taken the time to know me so well that I'm sure he already knows how this has affected my thinking and feeling. And, I also know beyond a doubt, that Gary would still love me no matter my feelings. He loves me unconditionally...in spite of myself and my moods...and I do believe that nothing will ever change that.
Sunshine
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1070 posted 07-02-2004 10:20 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Outside of this forum, Ethel, I would go so far as to say you might be in need of some counseling, so that {1} you know it's OK to be angry and {2} to realize that there is nothing you can do about the past and {3} get the advice and help you need to make a good future with you and Gary.

Speaking to the past, allowing it to be in the present, such as you did now, is sometimes the first step to clearing up the muddy waters of confusion, hurt, pain, and shock.

I know you have spoken of this before, but it seems to be weighing even more on your mind lately.  I'm concerned, too, Ethel, that you are blaming yourself more and more for what you "should have seen" and didn't.  But you cannot do anything about that now...you can only go forward and make the amends with your daughter, as best you can.

Gads, honey, I feel for you.  Please know you're in my heart, and in my prayers...
Nightshade
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just out of reach


1071 posted 07-02-2004 11:51 AM       View Profile for Nightshade   Email Nightshade   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nightshade's Home Page   View IP for Nightshade

I agree with Karilea. Ethel, sometimes we need a professional's point of view on how and why we feel the way we do. Both physically and emotionally. Guilt, anger and hurt can keep piling up year after year without us even realizing how mountainous the crap has become. There is a saying from a writer whom I cannot remember her name now, and she says, 'you did what you did, cause it's all that you knew ... now you know better.'  So, in other words, you have made your apologies to your daughter for being human and not seeing what was going on, the evil man is dead, clean future awaits.
  Learning to trust again is a great task I know, believe me. But, if we don't take that chance, we may be missing out on something wonderful. Oh! I love that song Something Wonderful from The King and I. Sorry....I drifted off there for a moment. Anyway, Gary seems to be such a patient and understanding man, just bask in the glory of this blessing. Try to enjoy the coming years with your daughter as much as possible - they fly by. Continue loving Gary - he sounds great.
  These are just my opinions remember. Seeing a therapist has done me wonders. What it has done to my therapist is another story!     Be well, luv ya! Chris
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


1072 posted 07-02-2004 04:32 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Ethel--I'm going to have to agree with the ladies here.

Emotional support, we have plenty, but the sharing of experiences will only go so far.

A good therapist will give you the tools you need to make a difference in your life.

Please don't mean this to sound like we're shooing you away--we're not.

We say this because we love you, our sister.

And I believe that Gary loves you too, and he will understand. (and I'm sure he already suspects that much of your past is still in play in your current relationship and he may even be relieved to learn that you are seeking an unbiased opinion)

Now c'mere and gimme a hug, and remember that when you feel lonely or frightened, we'll be here to listen--but a therapist will help you to take a pro-active stance on the hauntings of your past.

Much love, dear one.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


1073 posted 07-02-2004 06:57 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

and with my apologies for the swift change of subject, but it's come to my attention that some people are having difficulty loading this thread--

should I have this'n locked, and start a part II?

Sunshine
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1074 posted 07-02-2004 07:24 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I can help out, if need be...
 
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