I need to make something perfectly clear before responding to this topic again...and that is that I am in perfect agreement with those who think Saddam is, or was a madman, and should have been removed from his position of power for the good of the world. It is now plain that he was no immanent threat to the United States. But my real argument is with the reasons given for his removal, and the false pretenses used to convince the public that those arguments were valid....This is a huge subject, I am still not sure if this is the right forum to discuss it in, but my conscience compels me to respond to what your last reply to Noah (Mistletoe Angel)
"The vast majority of those who hate America are people we would be worried about if they LIKED us! LOL"
According to what has been in the papers, over the last ten months (more so in Europe than in The United States) That majority seems to be most of the rest of the world, or am I reading it wrong? And am I to assume by what you say, that we should disregard the way they feel, thus jeopardizing any future alliances with these countries buy trying to make them look like fools?
Results of a BBC poll aired June 18,2003, some pertinent results from that poll...
"The survey, for a television debate program called "What The World Thinks of America," revealed that 57 percent of the questioned had a very unfavorable, or fairly unfavorable attitude toward US President George WE. Bush."
"Asked who is the more dangerous to world peace and stability, the United States was rated higher than al-Qaeda terrorist"
"It was rated more dangerous than Iran, by people in Jordan, Indonesia, Russia, South Korea and Brazil, and more dangerous than Syria by respondents in all countries except Australia, Israel and the United States."
This does not surprise me, It is plain that the world sees us as a rogue bully, that thumbs its nose at international law and opinion.
"Views have indeed changed due to Bush and I'll give you an example. When the leader of Qatar was interviewed, he replied on national TV - "This is not Mr, Roger's neighborhood over here. These boys play rough and they respect only strength and power. For the first time the Arab world respects the United States and it's President."
I think you are confusing "respect" for fear..something we accuse the terrorists of instilling in others..
"I could say that there are plenty of reasons to be glad we are in Iraq....for example, half a million children under the age of 6 are not now dying of hunger."
No doubt about it, Saddam let his people starve, of course the U.N. sanctions over the last ten years or so didn't help anything either.
"Massive graves are being uprooted to show the tens of thousands of victim who were slaughtered and are not being now. The prisons where anyone against the regime were tortured and murdered are now shut down."
An excellent reason to have brought Saddam to justice long before this time, (most of the dead in those graves were buried 6 to 10 years ago) or perhaps dragging him to The Hague, like was done with Melosevic, and trying him for crimes against humanity. The reasons for this invasion have changed quickly, and often, falling, as they are proven to be falsehoods.
Maybe I would think differently if humanitarian reasons would have been given for this invasion in the first place....but that of course is not the case, or at least an unstated reason until recently.
"I could give more examples but the one that stands above all is that we have a better chance to think that a major attack like 9-11 is less likely to occur."
Worldwide terrorists, ( at least those such as al Qaeda) by what proof we have today, have had no good relationship with Iraq, Saddam being a secular leader, they avoided his company..so there is no reason to think we are safer from those who were inspired by religious fanaticism to act out violently against us. (at least from inside Iraq). There is strong reason to believe that al Qaeda has a presence today in Iraq...I do believe that the fundamentalist Muslims have had their eye on Iraq for a long time, but would not play games with Saddam.....now they see an in, to perhaps developed a stronghold and kill a few Americans at the same time
"The terrorists regimes have been dealt serious blows. "
Yes they have, and we hit them where they were, in Afghanistan. But one of their head men is still free, and still a danger to us....but because of the Iraq invasion, we have changed our focus from freeing the world of the Osama type terrorists, to the pipe dream of turning Baghdad into Los Angeles.
" Clinton was too busy decreasing the size of the military which we are paying for now."
The record shows that this is also a myth and that the only reason that Bushes invasions and wars seem successful is that they are being fought with the Clinton military.. , military money was spent more wisely in the Clinton years, and not on some pipe dream , star wars fantasy ..another long subject that could be discussed in a topic of its own.
"Anyway, my dear friend, you will continue to believe what you wish and ignore that which casts doubt on it and I shall go on with my own beliefs, too. "
Beliefs are wonderful, and easy to express. Truths are hard to examine, especially through a haze of petrodollars. Of course we must examine our own feelings for falsehoods, but real facts are harder to come by than opinion, the truth is found in places hidden by spinners and politicians who are basically afraid of it, perhaps because they do not want to admit being wrong? So I have turned aside my opinion and tried to dig out the facts, and have come to the conclusion that any emotional impulse must be stifled for a while, now I look to law and documented truths to save us..there are laws, proposed and on the books, that in my opinion are the saving grace of humanity, call me secular if you like.
Ford Hume aka ice