How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 pipTalk Lounge
 Music?   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ]
 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Music?

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
brian madden
Member Elite
since 05-06-2000
Posts 4532
ireland


25 posted 12-05-2002 07:17 PM       View Profile for brian madden   Email brian madden   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brian madden

the whole "what is punk discussion" is what really grabbed my attention, i agree hush that punk is a very loaded and over used term. Now you know that i don't like blink i82. I guess what you would call punk is subjective. For me punk was a style of music in the 1970's born out of furstration and anger at social conditions. It was a style a music that was a reaction to both the flower pop and the complex heavy rock of the 60's. It was simple fast and loud. Sometimes politic (CLash, Sex pistols, dead Kennedy's) and sometimes poppy (ramones, buzzcock's).
Then there is post punk (magazine, birthday party, Joy division). Punk took in alot of musical styles and filtered them and broke them down into raw passion. THe Clash are considered the greatest punk band ever (accroding to a poll in a leading british music journal) but they incorperated everything from pop, funk, blues, soul, rap, reggae, disco, funk. PUnk for me is a certain attitude. Bands such as Greenday and Blink 182 don't have it.

Also what is wrong with System of a down?
I hated them at first, but the way they blend Armenian folk music with heavy rock it is pretty orginal.

now to answer the question that started this thread,
I got the Joy Division box set recently. four cds of almost everything they recorded.
so it has to be JOy Division. If you don't know, seek find and be enlightened.





I used to make phantoms I could later chase images of all that could be desired then I got tired of counting all of these blessings"h.devoto magazine

PoeticJustice
Junior Member
since 11-29-2002
Posts 44
AK, USA


26 posted 12-05-2002 07:23 PM       View Profile for PoeticJustice   Email PoeticJustice   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PoeticJustice

Nirvana is grunge. They're so revered in the hard rock community because they made grunge mainstream.

SoAD may have some politics in their music, but I have yet to hear a song by them that's at all creative. My friend (who is obsessed with them) told me to listen to Streamline, as that was his favorite song at the time. I did. When they weren't screaming and strumming as hard as they could, it was just... bland. Aerials was even worse... The only decent song by them is Spiders, and even then it's just that: decent.

As for Avril Lavigne and Pink... They're not any different than Britney. The record companies realize that people grow out of Britney and that other crap sometime in their teens. So Avril and Pink, the "anti Britneys" take the stage. Avril only knows a few chords on her guitar, and Pink fakes being drunk and other stunts on national TV. They're products of the record companies.

Operation: Mindcrime is definetly one of my favorite concept albums, but I don't know if it's my very favorite. Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall are also really good... I liked Empire a lot, though. Geoff sings a lot more in the lower ranges, which can be a good thing for people who aren't metalheads (I'm a progressive metalhead :p ).

And punk is coming back. Slayer and Megadeth obviously aren't punk, and I probably shouldn't have said SoAD when I was grouping punk bands... But it is back. In a different form. Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, and some think Blink 182 is punk(I don't, I think it's crap). Most of the new groups and artists are just capitalizing on the angst of teens. They shout angry lyrics and loud guitar to try and appeal to an angry teen. And unfortunately, it works.
Local Parasite
Deputy Moderator 10 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


27 posted 12-05-2002 07:39 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

My Dying Bride isn't half bad either, Opeth... the only problem is that their really good songs are outnumbered by their terribly mediocre ones.  I'd never buy an MDB album, but I'm happy listening to She Is The Dark or The Isis Script on mp3.  
Jaime
Unregistered


Transylconia, Winnipeg


28 posted 12-05-2002 09:21 PM       Edit/Delete Message     View IP for Jaime

I listen to everything (and I'm one of those people that actually does). It all depends on my state of mind/mood/tongue at the time.

A consistent favourite though is Tori Amos.

i was here

quietlydying
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Senior Member
since 06-10-2001
Posts 1316
the wonderful land of oz


29 posted 12-06-2002 12:43 AM       View Profile for quietlydying   Email quietlydying   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for quietlydying

who doesn't like tori amos?

and since when are pink and avril whats-her-face classified in the same category?

bif has talent.

and her music is decent.  she's been around for ages, and it will stay that way.

the other two will probably be gone by the end of next year.

/jen/

i'm freezing, i'm starving, i'm bleeding to death.  everything's fine.  [tracy bonham]

PoeticJustice
Junior Member
since 11-29-2002
Posts 44
AK, USA


30 posted 12-06-2002 02:00 AM       View Profile for PoeticJustice   Email PoeticJustice   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PoeticJustice

Never said Avril and Pink were in the same category of music, though they're both pop. I said they're both products of the record companies. Which they are. And they were created for the same purpose.
Local Parasite
Deputy Moderator 10 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


31 posted 12-06-2002 02:11 AM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

All this argument over what qualifies as Punk, and here's hush describing Depeche Mode as industrial...

boy... I wish I listened to the radio, I might have something to say in this argument.  
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


32 posted 12-06-2002 06:49 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
Most of the new groups and artists are just capitalizing on the angst of teens.
This isn't anything new. Go back throughout the history of music and you find the same thing.
quote:
They shout angry lyrics and loud guitar to try and appeal to an angry teen.
Uhm - same thing. The only thing that's changed is the definition of "angry" and "loud."
quote:
And unfortunately, it works.
And, uhm, yeah, again. From Elvis to Insane Clown Posse, generation to generation, it works.
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


33 posted 12-06-2002 06:50 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

oh yeah, and Pink? *whew* Hotttttttt!
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


34 posted 12-06-2002 09:25 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"My Dying Bride isn't half bad either, Opeth... the only problem is that their really good songs are outnumbered by their terribly mediocre ones.  I'd never buy an MDB album, but I'm happy listening to She Is The Dark or The Isis Script on mp3."

~ I have MDB's Light at the End of the World and The Dreadful Hours. There are only a couple of tracks from TDH that I don't like. The rest are quite good. I am happy I purchased it. I don't listen to Light very much. I don't think it is as good as TDH, but I am still delighted to have it in my collection. People have told me that their best is Turn Loose the Swans.


Jaime
Unregistered


The Ravines


35 posted 12-06-2002 11:20 AM       Edit/Delete Message     View IP for Jaime

I don't know. I tend to sympathize with singers/musicians. They are human beings after all - and whether it's pop or rock there are molds. They have to fit their "identity" or else they face the threat of losing everything they've worked so hard for. It may be shallow, but we all do these things in one form or another.

And of course.. it comes back to how magazines, tv, etc are trying to make money off of these walking trends too. I like Angelina Jolie and I remember I bought this magazine once because she was on the cover. On the cover in bold letters it said "Angelina Jolie: Shares Her Dirty Bedroom Secret". She mentioned once (and barely) something having to do with sex in the interview and it was not "dirty" or some huge secret. They do what sells. Plain and simple.

I don't particularly like Pink or Avril, but I respect them because I think to some degree they are sincere people who want to find a place in between the plastic and the flesh.

This is just my opinion. I'm probably wrong but oh well.. I just try to understand people before I judge them. (Not trying to imply anything. I think most of you are far more intelligent than I am. )


i was here

[This message has been edited by Jaime (12-06-2002 11:35 AM).]

Allysa
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-09-1999
Posts 2307
In an upside-down garden


36 posted 12-06-2002 11:38 AM       View Profile for Allysa   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Allysa

Let's see how good my memory is...

Nirvana
The Beatles
Aquabats
Anti-Flag
Apocoliptica
Blood For Blood
Dead Kennedys

(screw the alpahbet... here I go..)

Velvet Underground
Neil Young (a tad bit)
Offspring
Wizo
The Ramones
The Vandals
Rancid
The Sex Pistols
Dropkick Murphys
Garbage
Pennywise
Millencolin
Black Sabbath

wow.. I wish I had my cd case w/ me right now... perhaps I'll think of more later...
bsquirrel
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Rara Avis
since 01-03-2000
Posts 8382


37 posted 12-06-2002 11:59 AM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Those responding to my punk post -- Let us agree to disagree, then.

Friday I'm in Love
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


38 posted 12-06-2002 12:38 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Stone Temple Pilots (first 2 cds)
Pearl Jam (first 2 cds)
Temple of the Dog
Victor Wooten
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


39 posted 12-06-2002 02:42 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

*raises eyebrow*

Mike-

Are you citing 'Friday I'm in Love' as a punk example of their music, or simply saying that's it's friday, and you're in love? If it's the former, I must vehemently disagree, but if it's the latter, then I .

Local Parasite-

Was I remiss in calling Depeche Mode industrial? I only listened to one of their CD's a few times because I thought it sucked, but they seemed to use a lot of synth, but went for a darker edge rather than poppy/upbeat. That, to my knowledge was the general definition of industrial- but like I said I'm not the authority on them. Correct me then- what do you call them?
Local Parasite
Deputy Moderator 10 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


40 posted 12-06-2002 03:14 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

I'd say Depeche Mode are something more like synthpop or EBM... "industrial" is a term invented by Throbbing Gristle way back when... it was meant to describe music that uses nonmusical elements, and is free of rock influences... the word "industrial" was chosen as a name for their record company originally, because it was supposedly as cold and heartless a name as they could muster.  

Of course, Throbbing Gristle were a bunch of whackos.  Their live preformances often involved them, well, extracting certain fluids from their bodies and finding creative ways of returning them to their bodies... and that's not even the start of it.

Nowadays it refers to music that is not necessarily "dark" as you put it, but mainly just emotionless and cold.  A lot of people feel that industrial is a counterculture to goth, whereas a lot of others seem to think they're almost interrelated.  I'm not sure myself, there's definitely some overlap and that's to be expected.

Personally, I think it's all in the intent of the music.  Most bands that I know, that are industrial, focus on themes in their music and are observational, not emotional.  If you listen to Plastic Assault, for example, you'll see a focus on violence.  No feelings or sentiments, just violence.  Hocico deals with the deplorability of the human race, etc.  

The sound of industrial music can be anything technoish, klunky or beepy, or even have guitar elements in it, as long as it doesn't make you feel happy or sad or whatever.  Depeche Mode's music is too feeling to be industrial...

It goes beyond "dark synth."  A lot of people use the term "darkwave," but I try to avoid that term, 'cause it sounds kind of dumb.    

If you want some idea what industrial music is, try to download something by Plastic Assault, Funker Vogt, Hocico, VoID CoNSTRUCT or Suicide Commando... or go straight for the source and download some of the earlier stuff, like Cabaret Voltaire, or "Hamburger Lady" by Throbbing Gristle... one of the most disturbing songs you'll ever hear...  

Thanks for asking... I love talking about this obviously, hehe...


[This message has been edited by Local Parasite (12-06-2002 03:22 PM).]

Local Parasite
Deputy Moderator 10 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


41 posted 12-06-2002 03:23 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

For further reading:
http://brainwashed.com/tg/industrial.html
bsquirrel
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Rara Avis
since 01-03-2000
Posts 8382


42 posted 12-06-2002 03:51 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

And let's not forget Skinny Puppy, those Canadian maniacs!

Is there any better title of a record ever than VIVIsect VI?

Didn't think so.

And is there a cooler name than Nivek, which is Kevin backwards?

Actually, the closest that the Cure ever came to punk was on their Three Imaginary Boys/Boys Don't Cry album.

Then they went wonderfully insane themselves, with Seventeen Seconds (ooo), Faith (aaaa), and Pornography (hhhhhh).

Followed by their inexplicable foray into fractured pop bliss.

Well, that's as far as I'll get into that.

"I'm a man of flesh and bone.
Rapture rushing in my veins.
Passions flaming in my heart.
Heavenly surrender once again."

-Depeche

MXgasattackMikey
Local Parasite
Deputy Moderator 10 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


43 posted 12-06-2002 03:55 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

I'm almost ashamed to have forgot Skinny Puppy, Mikey.     What cooler name than VIVISectVI?  how about Too Dark Park?  hehe...
bsquirrel
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Rara Avis
since 01-03-2000
Posts 8382


44 posted 12-06-2002 03:57 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

True, Too Dark Park is an awesome title. But I just love the bizarre asymmetry of VIVIsectVI.

And I saw one video of theirs, which I don't even remember the name of. At one point, these surgeons are pulling bloody wads of money out of a man's mouth. Then a clown bursts in with a telegram. The man tears it open to read "U OWE ME AN APOLOGY."

HA HA HA HA! God, I love those twisted freaks.

[This message has been edited by bsquirrel (12-06-2002 03:57 PM).]

bsquirrel
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Rara Avis
since 01-03-2000
Posts 8382


45 posted 12-06-2002 04:31 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Okay, my last few points, then I'm off to work.

First of all, with the goth/industrial sorta mixing. I find the same thing, Local Parasite. I've got a bunch of underground comps -- mostly from Cleopatra Records, but still -- and they love to combine goth and industrial. Which, in some ways, is interesting. And yes, the sounds do meld a bit. But a lot of goth can be self-pitying or intentionally campy, or floridly poetic and romantic. Whereas industrial is basically "Welcome to the machine, human nothing." So, while the sounds mix because both genres employ some dirgelike and nihilistic ideas, the lyrics always throw me for a loop. (and yet, I listen to both avidly, and enjoy the bands that throw around their brilliance, such as Skinny Puppy, and Bauhaus, and Sisters of Mercy etc. etc.)

Now, as for punk. In the States, where punk arguably originated (through CBGB bands like the Ramones, Television and Blondie), it was about thumbing your nose at the status quo with intelligence and humor. To me, those bands were about saying thanks but no thanks to the current music scene of pomposity and sell-out -- basically, to construct noise in a D.I.Y. manner, and stick to your little vision of the world from your background. Kinda playful, because all that was at stake, really, was the music, and where you'd find your next fix.

In England, however, where bands like the X-Ray Spex, Siouxsie and the Banshees, the Clash and the Sex Pistols flourished, it was about more than music. It was about trying to survive in a society that had grown more bleak and gray as the wars rolled out and the '60s was left staring itself in the mirror, all druggy and Fleetwood Mac'ed out, with Lennon trumpeting "I don't believe in Beatles" and the youth feeling like outcasts from the party they never got to experience.

These bands were more about finding transcendence through nihilism and hedonism. And about stabbing the Queen in the back. I mean, the Sex Pistols rallying cry was "No future, no future, no future for you."

Now, compare that to something like Blink 182. Yes, there's punk qualities in the members, but, to me, the music is about nothing more than itself, and about how snotty and bratty you can act. There music is basically one message -- this is Blink 182 music you're listening to. Even the Ramones, at their most pop-sugary, had a side of real and harrowing darkness. "Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue" and "I Wanna Be Sedated" being just two examples of that.

And as for System of a Down? They're too studied in their musicianship. They're alt-metal by way of Frank Zappa, if anything. I don't hate them. In fact, I'm glad they found a voice on a radio dial clogged with Staind and Papa Roach songs. But, to me, anyway, they're not punk.

Anyway, hope you enjoyed this little essay on something I feel passionate about, no matter how boneheaded and wrong my statements may actually be. Thanks for reading, and hope you check out some of the music. And now, I have to .... ugh ... "work."

No Future
Marshalzu
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 02-15-2001
Posts 4465
Lurking


46 posted 12-06-2002 07:09 PM       View Profile for Marshalzu   Email Marshalzu   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marshalzu's Home Page   View IP for Marshalzu

The Cooper Temple Clause
Muse
Ash
My Vitriol
Mew
Coldplay
JJ72
Doves
System of a Down
The Strokes
The Vines
The Libertines
Electric Soft Parade
Jet Plane Landing
Hell is for heroes
Biffy Clyro
Feeder
Polyphonic Spree
Ani Difranco
Avril Lavninge (Sp?)
...

probably a few more I have forgotten
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


47 posted 12-06-2002 11:58 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

"I Wanna be Sedated" is the only Ramones song I really like.

Regarding radio pop/punk, I agree that there's a definite difference, the punk of today mostly dealing with the limited scope of trouble with girls and other such things- but you know, I think some of Blink 182's trouble with girls songs are pretty good, at least, in their first two albums. No, it's not political (except in the case of 'Lifestyle of the Rich and famous', a song I quite like, and if you want to qualify it, 'Fat Lip' by Sum 41), but that's part of the evolution of music. I think the style at least qualifies a relation to its rougher, more politically-minded predecessors.

I used to hate the pop/punk genre that I'm now defending, simply because I thought it was too peurile and substanceless... but I think that I've come to a more accepting point where I can accept substance in forms other than political protest, and I can appreciate the charm of songs about girls that actually make a cohesive sense, rather than the non-linear ramblings of corporate bubble-gum.

I'm not saying there aren't drawbacks- because yeah, sometimes a bunch of (upper?) twenty-something guys whining cloying ballads to a whiny high-school audience can really get on my nerves... but sometimes, if I relax a little, I can see the fun in this type of music- and believe it or not, sometimes it strikes a chord.

I guess I have to retract my statement ealier concerning Depeche Mode as industrial- not my place since I've never really listened to them a lot. I guess my classifications carry less weight also because of my limited scope when it comes to music- I like a lot, but I only know a few bands very well. I've spent the last two years memorizing Ani DiFranco's massive repoitoire, and the year and a half before that obsessively listening to Pink Floyd, with little room for other bands to get a song in edge-wise. And the year before that, NIN dominated my CD changer (to this day I have all the Halos up to The Fragile)... and after I get sick of Ani, I'll move on to something new for a year or two... it's how I work when it comes to music- so, I guess I don't know why I'm still typing and expecting people to read this...
garysgirl
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 09-29-2002
Posts 20064
Florida, USA


48 posted 12-07-2002 01:23 AM       View Profile for garysgirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit garysgirl's Home Page   View IP for garysgirl

Does anybody like bands like Percy Faith and Henry Mancini? And what about Billy Joel, Burt Bacharach, Tom Jones...


Now, my fiance, Gary, likes a lot of rock like....Godsmack, Warrant, Guns-N-Roses, Rob Zombie, Dio, Pat Benator, Bon Jovi, Poison, Cinderella, Motley Crue, Scorpions, Kiss, Korn....now, what kind of rock all this is, I have  NO  idea.
~Ethel~
PoeticJustice
Junior Member
since 11-29-2002
Posts 44
AK, USA


49 posted 12-07-2002 04:25 AM       View Profile for PoeticJustice   Email PoeticJustice   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PoeticJustice

Ok first, how do you do the quote thing on this board? On other boards I belong to there's a button bar and you just click and it puts the stuff on it... I know the code and all, but does it work for me?

Anyways, music hasn't always cashed in on the angst of teens, or been angry and loud. Music used to be about sending a message other than: "I'm pissed off, listen to me!". The cashing on teen angst started in the 1980s, but even the bands from then had a reasonable amount of talent, and they matured into something deeper. Like Queensryche. They used to just be a metal group similar to Iron Maiden, then they did Rage For Order(The Warning is the only one I don't have, so correct me if I'm wrong), which had their more complex progressive metal sound to it.

Music hasn't always been angry and loud, either. Well, loud yes. But full of talentless anger? No. When rock first came about older people reacted as though it was corrupting America and was the devil's music. They thought it loud, raucus, and untalented. They were proven wrong because rock became the most popular kind of music in America and Europe. Now we have bands that have gotten similar reactions. The difference? They're not being revolutionary, they aren't doing anything new. In fact, they're actually doing less than most bands because they only play a few chords and they scream into the microphone in pretty much every song. Sure, I'm an angry teen, but I think I have a valid reason to be angry(I'm sure we all feel that way, though). The world is falling apart around us and I can see every little thing that is wrong with us. I don't listen to angry music... I listen to music that's complex, music that has many levels, and music that strays from the norm. Usually. Though some songs that aren't particulalry deep still sound good.

Anyways, back to my point... That I can't remember... Oh yeah, the new angry crap music won't be around for much longer because teens grow up and lose all that angst.
PoeticJustice will be notified of replies
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> pipTalk Lounge >> Music?   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors