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bsquirrel
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0 posted 11-21-2002 01:25 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Reported yesterday on salon.com:

The Transportation Security Administration, a federal agency, has recently reported that it has 1,000 names on a "Threats to Aviation" list. These lists are compiled from the FBI, CIA and other federal organizations. Anyone on this list is not allowed to fly.

However, a second list may be involved, where people may fly, but first they are detained for questioning by local police, undergo strip searches and have their luggage sifted through. Left-leaning organizations such as Greenpeace, Amnesty International and the Green Party are on this list, with no discernible way of getting off.

Item two, reported in the Wall Street Journal:

Following September 11th, the FBI hastily assembled watch lists of thousands of citizens. Somehow, this list has leaked out to the public, can be found on unregulated websites, and are being bought by corporations and other agencies for use in background checks. Mistakes are rife on this list, and there seems to be no way of getting off it.

"We have now lost control of that list," said Art Cummings, head of the strategic analysis and warning section of the FBI's counterterrorism division, to the Wall Street Journal. "We shouldn't have had those problems."

Welcome to America, care of George Bush.
Kielo
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1 posted 11-21-2002 01:37 PM       View Profile for Kielo   Email Kielo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kielo

Land of the free?
bsquirrel
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2 posted 11-21-2002 01:40 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

This country sure seems to like their freedom not to vote.
quietlydying
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the wonderful land of oz


3 posted 11-21-2002 01:44 PM       View Profile for quietlydying   Email quietlydying   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for quietlydying

nice.  really.

::cough::

so glad i'm canadian.

as usual.  

/jen/

i'm so bitterly disappointed.  betty, i think it's time you leave now.

Kielo
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since 02-11-2002
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4 posted 11-21-2002 01:46 PM       View Profile for Kielo   Email Kielo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kielo

What part of Canada? Canada has it's own problems. *mutters* But yes, I'm glad I'm Canadian...
Marshalzu
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5 posted 11-21-2002 05:28 PM       View Profile for Marshalzu   Email Marshalzu   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marshalzu's Home Page   View IP for Marshalzu

It sure is good to be Englerician I mean Americish
Skyfire
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6 posted 11-21-2002 07:53 PM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

You KNOW I didn't mean that, Andrew *grins* Hey, would you Americans trade us British Columbians George Bush for Gordon Campbell? Maybe we'll get our hospitals and jobs back

I am a Knight who says Ni!

quietlydying
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the wonderful land of oz


7 posted 11-22-2002 02:37 AM       View Profile for quietlydying   Email quietlydying   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for quietlydying

hey, as an added bonus i'll throw in al golden from us winnipegers!!

just so we don't have to worry about him anymore.

and if you're really lucky, i'll give ya glen murray too!!

/jen/

i'm so bitterly disappointed.  betty, i think it's time you leave now.

serenity blaze
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8 posted 11-22-2002 03:23 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I suppose it's too late to give you Nixon in return? Him and Joe McCarthy, and..and...

how about a Clinton instead?

There's a special going on.

Buy one, get one free.

:supergroin:
Kielo
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9 posted 11-22-2002 10:57 AM       View Profile for Kielo   Email Kielo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kielo

*sigh* How about we give you Chretien too. We're sick of him. He's been around too long. No changes... ugh... Sorry to anyone who likes him. He's been in office longer than I've been alive. That's too long, as far as I'm concerned. I want a change.
Poet deVine
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Hurricane Alley


10 posted 11-22-2002 11:05 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

If this wasn't America, you wouldn't know about this list.
quietlydying
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the wonderful land of oz


11 posted 11-22-2002 12:13 PM       View Profile for quietlydying   Email quietlydying   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for quietlydying

waaaaay too long in my opinion.

how old are you kielo?

do you mean how long he's been in cabinet?

because he's only been in office for about nine years, and that would make you somewhere around eight years old.

heh.  

/jen/

i'm so bitterly disappointed.  betty, i think it's time you leave now.

bsquirrel
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12 posted 11-22-2002 01:23 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

True enough, Sharon.
quietlydying
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the wonderful land of oz


13 posted 11-22-2002 05:15 PM       View Profile for quietlydying   Email quietlydying   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for quietlydying

i'm in canada, yet i know about the list.

hmmmmmm...  perplexing.



/jen/


i'm so bitterly disappointed.  betty, i think it's time you leave now.

[This message has been edited by quietlydying (11-22-2002 05:15 PM).]

Midnitesun
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Gaia


14 posted 11-22-2002 06:43 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

I will be disappointed if my name isn't on that list. Just means I've been hibernating a bit too long, though I was active in at least two of those questionable groups for many years. oops, I just checked the list again. All three for me at one time or another.
SIGH, 'tis time to reactivate.

[This message has been edited by Midnitesun (11-22-2002 06:46 PM).]

Kielo
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15 posted 11-22-2002 07:03 PM       View Profile for Kielo   Email Kielo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kielo

*shrug* I don't know. I'm older than 9. I just don't remember what Chretien was doing when I was 6. I'm as old as my tongue and a little older than my teeth... heh. Forgive my very disjointed and nonsensical sentences. I'm feeling rather braindead today. Or, as my wonderful friend would put it, I'm being a human bean today.

According to statistics, a man eats a prune every twenty seconds. I don't know who this fellw is, but I know where to find him.
-Morey Amsterdam

Local Parasite
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Transylconia, Winnipeg


16 posted 11-22-2002 07:18 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

quote:
:supergroin:


YES Serenity.... LOL... WE NEED a supergroin smiley!

I would SO use that all the time.  

[This message has been edited by Local Parasite (11-22-2002 07:18 PM).]

brian madden
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ireland


17 posted 11-22-2002 08:14 PM       View Profile for brian madden   Email brian madden   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brian madden

being irish i am in no way qualified to respond to this thread, i have no vested interest in American politics and foreign affairs and like most irish people my main concren lies with the threat of attacks on Britain's nuclear plants (this being a major concern that would would not only destroy life in Britian but also in Ireland) however the concept of blacklisting reminds me of the way America dealt wih Communism during the 50's. however i can understand the restriction and paranoia in terms of air traffic, passengers and luggage. I believe it is a delayed reaction to what occurred on September iith, obviously they want to prevent a reoccurance however i feel it is unlikely that the group responsible will plan a similar attack. Being non American it is easy for me to throw in my opinions, though not matter what views I hold I can understand the sense of paranoia and alterness that the US has, terrorism is a terrible thing...and innocences should never have to suffer the wrath of a regime or belief scheme.


I used to make phantoms I could later chase images of all that could be desired then I got tired of counting all of these blessings"h.devoto magazine

Denise
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18 posted 11-22-2002 09:28 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Yes, Jen, but have you heard about Canada's list?

Seriously, no doubt America is on high alert, as you point out Brian, and it is a controversial issue (what isn't anymore?) here as to whether the government is going too far in protecting us from future harm. I also tend to think that future attacks will be other than airline attacks as we saw on Sept. 11, 2001. Realistically, I don't think there is enough time, resources or money to effectively protect us. I find comfort though that at least now it seems the government is doing something and possibly preventing some potential attacks. There seemed to have been such a break down in national security in previous years, which shouldn't have been, since there were plenty of warnings, even an admission by bin Laden that he planned to attack us. It seemed he wasn't taken seriously. And let's not forget, it's not just America that is in danger, it's the entire world.

On the other hand, we can never get to the point that we give up our liberty for the sake of safety. Some believe that the Patriot Act does just that by giving the FBI and CIA more leeway concerning wire taps and such. I don't think so. But it's definitely  something that we have to keep a close eye on. Who was it, Benjamin Franklin I think, who said that those who give up their liberty for safety deserve neither?  
PoetryIsLife
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...in my boxers...


19 posted 11-23-2002 12:50 AM       View Profile for PoetryIsLife   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PoetryIsLife

I love that qoute, Denise.

I'm a fan of Bush's. He's not perfect, but I prefer him over Gore any moment.

~Titus

"A life unexamined is not worth living."
                       -Socrates

Skyfire
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20 posted 11-23-2002 01:49 AM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

I set a bush on fire once... nevermind... long story.
Anyway, I don't really have any opinion on political stuff other than they're ALL morons

No, on second thought, let's not go to Camelot.
~ Arthur (Monty Python Search for the Holy Grail)

Android 17
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21 posted 11-23-2002 09:20 AM       View Profile for Android 17   Email Android 17   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Android 17's Home Page   View IP for Android 17

Politics. Those, in my eyes, vermin lose my respect the instant I see their names on billboards.

Tyhla du dra piyd uv so seht!

Android 17
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22 posted 11-23-2002 04:24 PM       View Profile for Android 17   Email Android 17   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Android 17's Home Page   View IP for Android 17

...in other news

Tyhla du dra piyd uv so seht!

bsquirrel
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23 posted 11-24-2002 02:50 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

I read (also on salon) that the U.S. confiscated lots of shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles on their raids of the Taliban and terrorist networks. They also found lots of training videos on how to operate these units.

It would be quite easy, the article alleges, to launch an attack like this on planes, with no way of stopping it. Planes travel over the same airspace from day to day.

I have no problem with increased security measures. But to then go and "punish" those who don't jibe with you politically? I just wish Bush hadn't cheated his way into office. It's like we're giving George Bush Sr. a second term after all.

Mike
Denise
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24 posted 11-24-2002 03:28 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

TWA Flight 800 comes to mind concerning the issue of shoulder-held missile launchers. I think there is much evidence to indicate that it also was a terrorist act.

I don't believe that Bush cheated his way into office. Election law should not be changed, after the fact, because you don't like the way the numbers are adding up. If the voters were having problems with the paper ballots, they had legal redress, before leaving the polling place to rectify the issue. That the "problem" only came to light after the fact, following a hastily arranged telephone canvasing, suggests to me that politics was working overtime behind the scenes to manufacture a problem. Dimpled chads, pregnant chads, duplicate chads, glimmer-of-light chads, what a spectacle.

The voters have the responsibility to insure that their vote is correct. After leaving the polling place it's too late, legally. And don't forget, a few newpapers did go back and continue to count the ballots, just to satisfy their own curiosity, independently of each other, and they all came to the same conclusion that Bush was indeed the winner, and this despite the fact that many news sources called Gore the winner in Florida before the polls were even closed in many areas, discouraging many potential Bush voters from even going to the polls.
 
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