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Passions in Poetry

To be a poet....

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dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


0 posted 11-09-2002 09:21 AM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

Here's a question for ya:

Why is it that, with poetry, you get tons of people who believe that to be a good writer you have to act all "wandering spirit" and such?? Why do lots of poets bring their poetic way of writing into conversation? For example....I've had several replies to my poems that go something like:

"Lisa, your poetry is lovely and warm...warm as the sun, happy as the waves....like sweet dew droplets off a faeries leaf. Keep digging into your soul to find peace on earth"

Hhahahaah...I just wrote that as an example of how alot of people who write poetry seem to act. Why do they think they need to believe in mythical crap to write poetry or be all wordy and weird? Why can't they just write and give NORMAL feedback without all the false pretense that they feel makes them "poetic?" Am I the only one who notices these types? Talking about clouds, mythical stuff, the sun, moon and stars does NOT make you a good writer. Talk is cheap...it's the poetry that's important. They try soooo hard to put themselves in some classification system that only they believe is what a poet should be. Would these people actually speak to someone under normal circumstances (say friends and family or strangers in the street) in the same fashion? I think not. By discussing a poem in a normal, every day manner doesn't detract from whether a poem is a good or bad one.

What do u guys think of what I'm saying? Make sense??

"Write what you feel, not what u think you should feel."

Larry C
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 09-10-2001
Posts 10765
United States


1 posted 11-09-2002 10:24 AM       View Profile for Larry C   Email Larry C   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry C's Home Page   View IP for Larry C

And tell me again what is wrong with artsie poetic replies...

Why can't people just be themselves? What is normal to you doesn't make it normal for everybody, does it?

If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

anonymousfemale
Member Ascendant
since 02-02-2000
Posts 6304
Limbo


2 posted 11-09-2002 10:36 AM       View Profile for anonymousfemale   Email anonymousfemale   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anonymousfemale

Er...

Don't steal - the Government hates competition.

dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


3 posted 11-09-2002 11:04 AM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

Larry...you're totally right...what is normal for one person does not make it normal for everyone. But there is my point--your reply to what I wrote was simple and straightforward....no sugar-coated nonsense to go with it. Don't get me wrong, I welcome all comments on my writing--good,bad or indifferent...after all, it's someone's opinion. What I don't understand, which was the reason I wrote that long paragraph, is why there is so much fakeness in people's replies and their poems. Why can't they just write without putting on the "I'm a mystical artsy fartsy facade?" I just don't see where people get the idea poetry and poets have to use big words and talk about spirits and clouds all the time...that's not what poetry's all about. Instead of just being themselves, they are being what they think is expected of a "poet," but what they don't realise is that with poetry, there are no limits or expectations--and the whole point is to just be yourself and not put on a mask.

If u want to see what I mean,cuz it's hard to explain, just look at some of the poems in the forums. The people who are secure in their writing and with themselves don't write about fairies, clouds, roses, dewdrops--they just write what they feel. The people who use the terms I've just listed TRY way too hard to create an image of themselves which shows they don't really understand what poetry is. If they'd just let go, not try so hard to become what their idea of a poet is, just go with the flow and write, I think they'd find out alot more about themselves and their true talents in writing.

"Write what you feel, not what u think you should feel."

Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


4 posted 11-09-2002 11:28 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Lisa, we accept all people here, with a huge dose of tolerance, and respect.  What you perceive as "artsy" from some, is just the way others want to express themselves, just as you are allowed to express yourself, in the mannerisms that you show here.

We've come to know several of our poet-friends over the years, some of us on a personal basis.  In real life.  This is a place where we can kick back and enjoy the various nuances that each individual has to offer.

Sometimes we're funny, we wax poetic when we read others' work, and they are kind enough to allow us to indulge in ourselves.  Sometimes we cry, when we are hit by the reality of someone's real life situation.  But above all, we allow each individual poet to be themselves.
dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


5 posted 11-09-2002 12:34 PM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

Yes I accept everything u say....but what I have trouble coming to terms with is why  people in some of the forums seem to find it necessary to talk in some coded language which only they understand....for example, the soulistic, fairy/mythical types? If I didn't know any better, I'd have thought substance abuse was involved...helloooooo mister shroom! hahahaha

"Write what you feel, not what u think you should feel."

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


6 posted 11-09-2002 02:33 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I understand exactly what you mean. I feel much the same way when I see people abbreviate you as u and because as cuz and use words like artsty fartsy, which isn't even in a dictionary (and probably should be hyphenated if we ever did want to call it a word). Don't even get me started on the way some people misuse and abuse the poor little ellipsis!

After a few seconds of tense irritation, though, I usually remember how boring this world would be if everyone was the same. Indeed, "style" only exists as a concept so we can have different ones and, with a little luck and lot of work, grow into better ones. So, instead of getting irate, I try to read what they are communicating to me, rather than focus too much on how they chose to say it. And you know what? I've discovered that some of the people who most abuse the ellipsis often make the best friends!
dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


7 posted 11-09-2002 03:17 PM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

It's hard to talk to people who live in the clouds...but plenty of people I've known have understood and agreed with what I've written above. Your argument about disliking people who write "u" instead of "you" and "cuz" instead of "because" is a pretty weak one. Why should I care if I abbreviate words in a message on a forum? It saves time hon When I've got a serious piece of writing in front of me, that's when using proper spelling and punctuation matters...not replying to tiddly little messages. It's also hard to have a mature discussion with people who can't take the truth and follow the crowd. I love poetry, poets, and writing in general. It's certain people who falsify the art that get on my nerves. Make of it what you will

"Write what you feel, not what u think you should feel."

Red
Member
since 01-01-2000
Posts 144
Ca


8 posted 11-09-2002 03:49 PM       View Profile for Red   Email Red   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red

"It's hard to talk to people who live in the clouds"

People who live in clouds are my favourite kind.... they make everything seem alive

To each their own!
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


9 posted 11-09-2002 04:02 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Why should I care if I abbreviate words in a message on a forum?

My point, exactly. And why should you care if someone else writes what THEY want in a message on a forum?

dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


10 posted 11-09-2002 04:09 PM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

There are 2 types of people who live in the clouds: those who do, but still show awareness...then there are those who are unaware and do everything they can just to fit in. In order to succeed, people have to take criticism as well as compliments...and must also realise that some people aren't as cheery about everything as they are because they see behind the scenes where sometimes sun doesn't shine. If poetry were made up only of writers who saw nothing but pretty little flowers and smiling happy faces and blue clouds, where would the contrast and mystery be? People need to see the black and grey matter as well as the white. But all this is getting off the point I was making, which is: plenty of people in this forum show their talent in writing without using fluffy, treehugger terminology, or hippie-like influence. However, as for the flower children using all the ethereal mystical language, I bet underneath all that they're actually talented writers. If only they could get past the icky faery wording--the poet they've been trying to find in themselves would probably emerge. All I've said is due to observation...and to each his/her own is right!

"Write what you feel, not what u think you should feel."

dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


11 posted 11-09-2002 04:13 PM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

Ron, people can write whatever they want...that's the point of a forum. It is also no crime to make observations about some of those comments If you can't see the point in all I've written, stop trying...and don't take things so seriously when somebody merely points something out.

"Write what you feel, not what u think you should feel."

Red
Member
since 01-01-2000
Posts 144
Ca


12 posted 11-09-2002 04:35 PM       View Profile for Red   Email Red   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red

Pointing things out is fine but you don't have to do it so condescendingly.

Some people like faeries.
Some people like things that are mystical.
Some people like flowery poems and words.

Does that make them less talented?
No.

Is a poet to be measured only by your standards?

Words are powerful, choose them carefully...  some people may be offended by what you've written here and then again, maybe it's just me.  
dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


13 posted 11-09-2002 04:57 PM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

Does that make them less talented?
No.
---
Yes

Is a poet to be measured only by your standards?
---
Yes

Words are powerful, choose them carefully...  some people may be offended by what you've written here and then again, maybe it's just me.  
---
Yes it's just you...anyone else would be able to take a pinch of truth and a pinch of sarcasm with a pinch of salt.
Kielo
Senior Member
since 02-11-2002
Posts 1259


14 posted 11-09-2002 05:08 PM       View Profile for Kielo   Email Kielo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kielo

They are expressing their appreciation of your useage of words in the best way they know how. Poems are useful in that they express emotion and thought in a way that cannot normally be done. If you are happy with a simple "Well done," I'm sure you could write exactly that in your critique message. "Tell me 'well done,' or tell me its bad, but no flowery words." If that's really what you want. I find that most of the poets who reply like that are the poets who are truly gifted, and write well. Think what you will, I guess, but you're limiting yourself.

Kielo

According to statistics, a man eats a prune every twenty seconds. I don't know who this fellw is, but I know where to find him.
-Morey Amsterdam

Red
Member
since 01-01-2000
Posts 144
Ca


15 posted 11-09-2002 05:14 PM       View Profile for Red   Email Red   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red

Alright, I suppose you are right and I can't handle your sarcasm and 'truth' and don't want to reply in like manner, therefore, I believe I will bow out of this conversation now.
Kielo
Senior Member
since 02-11-2002
Posts 1259


16 posted 11-09-2002 05:17 PM       View Profile for Kielo   Email Kielo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kielo

Ok, hold on. I just read parts of this thread, and it sounds to me like you have issues with imagery and the mystical. I have a suggestion. Why don't you let people write what they like, and if you don't like what they are writing, don't read it. You said that poetry is just feelings, but imagery is a very powerful tool to convey emotion and to capture the reader. I also fail to see how writing about the mystical reflects on a person's talent.

Kielo
dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


17 posted 11-09-2002 05:23 PM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

The only people who limit themselves are those who don't express their opinions or follow all the other sheep in the herd.

It's funny what people take offense to though, when a subject is brought up just for discussion's sake--no need to take everything so seriously. Discussing a topic can often provoke emotions in people, but in this instance I only brought certain things up because I noticed them....not to get people all stressed out! Life is too short to make a mountains out of molehills.

"Write what you feel, not what u think you should feel."

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


18 posted 11-09-2002 06:33 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

The saddest part is that you don't even recognize why people would disagree with you. You think you have "the" truth and everyone else is failing to see it? There are very few absolute truths, especially when dealing with poetry and art, and those who think they've found "the" truth only limit themselves from ever escaping beyond it. I could almost envy you your certainty. Almost.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions and even your observations. But when those observations are colored by tints of intolerance, you shouldn't be so surprised to find disagreement.
Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


19 posted 11-09-2002 07:01 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

I'd rather be in the company of a "tree hugger" composing "mythical crap" than a self hugger spouting opinions as obvious truth and deciding we need enlightening when we are offended by the stereotyping and name calling.

peace

jm

No one has ever shown me how to see the world the way I see it now ...
and I never saw blue like that before.

~Tom Kimmel~


[This message has been edited by Janet Marie (11-09-2002 07:02 PM).]

Kielo
Senior Member
since 02-11-2002
Posts 1259


20 posted 11-09-2002 07:57 PM       View Profile for Kielo   Email Kielo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kielo

Yes. Exactly, Janet!

Besides, what's wrong with tree-huggers?
Jenn Cirrincione
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-02-2000
Posts 4370
Fl


21 posted 11-09-2002 09:08 PM       View Profile for Jenn Cirrincione   Email Jenn Cirrincione   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jenn Cirrincione

Okay.
This conversation is truely getting us nowhere. Maybe I can try to mediate the group.

First point that was made: You mean the Beatniks? The ones that try to be something they are not just to "appear" more artsy. Understood. Yes, it is irratating to some; myself for example. However, that is how some people are- they feel it is the way they want to act. If we don't like it, we can simply avoid those people. Correct? We don't have to like everyone's personality, we can just choose to move along and be civil. I'm not sure why you add in the fairies and mythical creatures into your arguement, people who write about fairies aren't any less talented and really does nothing to prove your point. In the future, just understand some people are sensitive, and maybe you should be careful about your words. No hard feelings, as I do tend to agree with most of what you say.

The arguement against it?: Also very fair. Sometimes those darned abbreviations get irritating. Kind of like bright green font, it's just adding flare or ease for the person writing it, and for everyone else? It gets annoying. It happens, we get over it. And EVERYONE is entitled to be who they want to be within legal limitations. Just be yourself, and keep yourself happy. You have no one to answer to you but yourself, and if you believe in one, God. And that's pretty much it.

Don't worry! Be happy.

Why is it that we are at our most ingenius only when trying to destroy the things that keep us alive and thriving?

dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


22 posted 11-09-2002 11:09 PM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

The problem I have with tree huggers and the goblin and fairy brigade is that they overanalyze the most simplest of things--things that are supposed to have been taken just at face value, like a throwaway remark(or my beginning this discussion in the first place...just for some opinions!)for example. They pretend to know what they didn't know to begin with. It's not me who's fake, it's them. This is only too sad, but within the arts--whether it be poetry, painting,sculpture, etc.-- it seems that the inner sanctum of these particular fields try to convince themselves that there are more hidden meanings than there are. I'm sure Picasso was just sitting at the table one day doodling away as we all do on occasion, but because of who he is, somebody in the art world would swear blind that he had some inner meaning in that picture, some soulistic intentions. To give you an example: some years ago in London, to trick the artworld, a group of school kids were given a load of paints and a huge canvas to let loose on and just toss paint all over it...they then put it in a fancy frame and hung it in the Tate Gallery. The gallery was then opened to the artworld and media, who began to see all sorts of wonderful hidden meanings and asked who the artist was, etc. They put an evaluation of above 100,000 on it. When the art world was told of the study by the schoolkids, they then hung their heads in shame that they were fooled so easily. Anyway, I'm starting get confused by this whole discussion, because the replies started going off track in all sorts of weird directions. Now you're making me as bad as the rest...hahaha.   I think I'll sit back and watch you confuse me and yourselves even further. No more comments from the Philistine. lol

"Write what you feel, not what u think you should feel."
dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


23 posted 11-09-2002 11:40 PM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

"I also fail to see how writing about the mystical reflects on a person's talent"
--------
Kielo,

Well that is exactly my point, because the mystical has been flogged to death...it shows absolutely no imagination or creativity. Poems written by the "wandering spirit" types are most likely copies of what they've held in their subconscious from reading other poems. The idea is, in a large amount of headcases, not their own...shows no originality.
dougsbird21
Member
since 11-08-2002
Posts 55
London(from TX though)


24 posted 11-09-2002 11:45 PM       View Profile for dougsbird21   Email dougsbird21   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit dougsbird21's Home Page   View IP for dougsbird21

Ok I forgot I said in my previous reply that I wasn't going to carry on with this conversation anymore b/c I was getting confused about you all's confusion. So, I repeat, no more comments from the peanut gallery (wait...is that me, or you?!).   Off to do some mushroom picking...and I might see some fairies while I'm at it!! YAY! hehe  
 
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