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Passions in Poetry

Immoral Love?

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serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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25 posted 09-13-2002 03:03 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Okay, I'll bite, if not at 18 then when can one fall in love without it just being getting laid? 19? 20? 21? Does that just apply to guys or does it include women as well? Just thought I'd throw that out in the open.


um...just to throw things out in the open?
It applies to women too.
Kielo
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since 02-11-2002
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26 posted 09-13-2002 03:06 AM       View Profile for Kielo   Email Kielo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kielo

*grins* You are one cool woman... for a fogey... hehe... Just kidding. I think...

Being 15, and knowing several 18 year olds, I really doubt that most of them are mature enough to take a relationship seriously.

[This message has been edited by Kielo (09-13-2002 03:07 AM).]

Trevor
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since 08-12-99
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27 posted 09-13-2002 03:48 AM       View Profile for Trevor   Email Trevor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trevor

Hello,

Keilo:

"Being 15, and knowing several 18 year olds, I really doubt that most of them are mature enough to take a relationship seriously."

Several 18 yr olds, ah heck, that only leaves the other 50 000 000, 18 year olds unaccountanted for Actually I do agree with your generalization although I'm not a big fan of generalizing. I too think a large portion of 18 year olds probably have difficulty sustaining a healthy, loving relationship but I'm sure there are some who can and do. Maybe for the situation that Serenity described, it's possible that the particular 18 yr old is mature enough to handle the relationship...but I dunno, never met him.

Just a thunk or two,

Trevor
Kielo
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since 02-11-2002
Posts 1259


28 posted 09-13-2002 03:52 AM       View Profile for Kielo   Email Kielo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kielo

Yah, you know, as soon as you pointed that out, I realized what I'd done... *blush* Oh well. See, I proved my point! We don't think about things thoroughly before getting involved, and we aren't experienced enough in life to know what is and what isn't. Ok, now I just confused myself, because halfway through my sentence I forgot what I was saying... Stupid ADHD... *mutters*
Christopher
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Purgatorial Incarceration


29 posted 09-13-2002 04:12 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

actually, i think it would apply MORE to women than to guys. 18 year old guys are [generally, of course there are exceptions] little more than sex machines. this doesn't mean they can't have personality, feelings, interests, etc., but there you have it - sex baby, sex.

women, on the other hand, are a little more likely to be less focused on sex than on the relationship at that age. often times, i think it's the relationship more than the feelings that are important for women of this age. emotions certainly play a big portion in it, i'm sure - but how many 18 (and younger even) year old girls did you know who wanted to die, because they'd just lost the only guy they'd ever love in their life... after going out with him for two weeks?

this may be typecasting a bit, but i don't think that makes it far off the mark. i don't claim to be mr. answer or anything, nor am i old and wise. but i can see patterns, in memory, and even here in the forums. at 18, your emotions are out of whack, way out of whack. blame it on hormones, social pressure, impending responsibility of having to go out in the 'real world' and choose a life for yourself (whoever in the world decided 18 was the age someone becomes an "adult?" bad call in my op.), whatever. you're on a roller coaster at 18, and deciding that something is love and not lust is probably a bit unrealistic. (then again, who ever called teens "realistic???")

as to the next part of the question: where do you draw the line? this probably answers the above question about determining the age of adulthood - there is no hard and fast line one can draw.

some people are fairly mature at 18. but not as mature as they'll be at 25, 30, 35, etc. in the same hand, you can find someone who's 25 and is as emotionally mature as someone who's 30. i think a lot of that depends on experience... hell, all of it may depend on experience. i don't feel i gained the emotional maturity to really decide on "love" until i was about... 27 or so... and truthfully, a lot of times i still wonder. my idea of what love really is changes all the time... not necessarily in large degrees, but it's there. i do know that it's not based on sex anymore (though that still plays a large part in intimate relationships). i've been married, had four live-in girlfriends (one was my ex wife), and literally countless other relationships of varying degrees of "depth." of course, it's quite possible i was just slow in the learning... but really, i think it just took that evolution of people and interactions to start whetting down the stone until it resembeled something along the lines of what my idea of "love" would end up being.

ah well, i'm talking a lot, and not all that sure i'm saying much. i have a strong opinion on this, one that comes from my gut telling me that the worst mistake someone under 25 (that's when i started noticing some true emotional growth in myself, though far from complete) to decide on anything that 'sticks' them in something for the rest of their life. love often leads that direction. i don't think it should have to, but that just seems to be the common goal, one i hope we as a society can get away from as time progresses. personally though, i think an 18 year old boy isn't necessarily thinking that way, lol. it is possible of course, but you know what? there's a lot to be learned by having our feelings hurt as well... ok, i'll shut up now.
Trevor
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30 posted 09-13-2002 05:27 AM       View Profile for Trevor   Email Trevor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trevor

Hello,

Chris:

Is love and sex the same thing at any age? If so then why can one have sex without being in love or love without having sex?

I'm gonna contend that people who think they are in love because they want to or enjoy having sex with someone are confused about which emotions they are feeling. I love the women whom I loved the exact same way that I love my parents...however, I don't lust after my parents. Like in every relationship there are a multitude of emotions other than love involved. Maybe that's where experience comes into play, the more experience we have the easier we are able to seperate different feelings from one another whereas when we first come into contact with these feelings they are usually all crammed together. And they're so new that we don't know what they are or what to do with them.

The exact same things I want for a wife I would want for my parents. Even sexually, ie. I would want my wife to be sexually satisfied just as I hope my parents are sexually satisfied because I care for their happiness. However, and its a big however, I don't lust after my parents so I wouldn't consider or ever try to fullfill that need for them,...thank Christ! I would want to care for both a wife and my parents...provide, protect, see happy, make laugh and so on all out of love. I think the confusion begins when we start treating lust, (or any other seperate emotional entity), as a part of love...Its not love that would make me want to sleep with a wife but lust and attraction, the same reason I would want to have sex with any woman...however, it would be love that would make me want her to be sexually satisfied....and lust to satisfy my sexual needs....and greed and envy for wanting it to only ever be me satisfying her sexual needs. All different but all in use at the same time, in the same relationship. Now I guess sex can be an expression of love but I think that might be summed up as love motivating or influencing lust and attraction, rather than sex for the sake of love, which makes about as much sense as, love for the sake of sex. Now these are all guesses of course, I haven't a clue either? I don't know if I'm even hitting the dart board but I did hear a "kathunk!" and someone scream

In Serenty's case, I wouldn't know what these two are feeling, only they can figure that out, but it is interesting to talk about them .

"ah well, i'm talking a lot, and not all that sure i'm saying much. i have a strong opinion on this, one that comes from my gut telling me that the worst mistake someone under 25 (that's when i started noticing some true emotional growth in myself, though far from complete) to decide on anything that 'sticks' them in something for the rest of their life. love often leads that direction."

Yeah, I know, it always bugs me too, hearing about people taking a chance on love, those cowards - especially when it causes them to be stuck in a loving relationship for the rest of their life. Bastards!..and that was envy

Thanks Chris, as usual, an interesting discussion,

Trevor

PS. Is it just me or does it seem everything at PIP seems to turn into a Philosophical debate when you're around, you're one of those proverbial fecal disturbers aren't you ...ahhh, but I wouldn't want it any other way.
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


31 posted 09-13-2002 09:40 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

But it DOES raise some interesting questions, T. And? I'm not sure if it's the age difference as much as it is such a familial thing. There is more than just ONE kid involved here...there are hers, who viewed him as a sibling, and his brothers, who still perceive her as aunt. The older brother will no longer participate in the family gatherings that include HER (out of loyalty to his mother)...which of course includes her children's birthday parties, etc. (I'm saying children but now that I'm thinking they are all in their teens, though the younger ones just barely.)

And yes, this IS a mess...and I think that had my friend began a liason with some OTHER 18-year old, I could have at least had more of an open mind about it. But seeing all the pain this is causing this once very close circle of friends, makes me pose the question, even to myself--IS "LOVE" a loophole for doing whatever or whomever you desire? I recall someone else pointing out to ME, that my actions could cause pain to MY children--and I was in LOVE (pouting now)Why was that different? I don't recall packing my bags, and saying with a casual, carefree flip of my hair, saying, "SORRY KIDS. MOM'S IN LOVE. Too bad for YOU." Then what? "oh yeah...tell your Dad, I may be back if and when I decide I'm not in love anymore." I'm sorry...I understand love, and I understand sexual attraction, (boy do I! ) but aren't there certain situations where sometimes you have to tell yourself, "Tsk...it's tough, but nope, you can't do that?" Because if there is not, I have really screwed up big time...
bsquirrel
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Member Rara Avis
since 01-03-2000
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32 posted 09-13-2002 11:46 AM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

I was thinking of this one in particular, Trev or. Many old/young relationships can work out. But the idea of this being family to lovers ... it's just got this imbued element of chaos that, frankly, isn't good for any relationship. It sounds more like they're seeking the heavenly highs and hellish lows of "taboo" love, rather than real love.

Of course, not knowing these people, I cannot make any real guesses or points on this. I'm just going by my gut, here.

Mikey
bsquirrel
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33 posted 09-13-2002 12:37 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Love is a mixture of many things.
Must it be spiritual and not of the body?
It's both.
And neither.
And beyond.
And below.
And all.
 
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