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Passions in Poetry

TeenChat?

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Ron
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50 posted 05-06-2002 01:12 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Jenn said:  
quote:
As if punishing a small child for going into the cookie jar, now none of the children are allowed cookies. I've never really understood that line of thinking.

Let's change your analogy just a little, Jenn, to eliminate the implication that children have a God-given right to cookies and to perhaps make it more appropriate to the situation.

Let's say you put a cookie jar on the street corner and invite the neighborhood kids to partake. You don't have time to stand there and watch all day, but you nonetheless ask that they not eat cookies until after dinner (Teen Poetry), please don't tip over the jar because the ants will get into it, and for heaven's sake, don't throw them at each other (those are really heavy cookies, don't ya know).

When you return the next day, you find that several of the kids have broken your rules. You admonish the offenders, upright the cookie jar, clean away the ants, and apologize to the kids with nasty bruises from cruise cookies. And then you refill the cookie jar. This goes on for nearly a year, and every day you find more ants, more bruises, and more and more kids breaking the rules. Your warnings go largely unheeded because, after all, the kids know you can't easily take back a cookie they've already eaten.

You know you can't continue doing it alone, so you ask a few of the kids to help. Watch the cookie jar, you tell them, and when they see someone tip it over, please pick it up before the ants can get into it. If they see someone throwing cookies, remind them to stop. You ask for help, several agree to help, and then you stand there and watch a few of your helpers walk over and very deliberately tip over the cookie jar. Right in front of you. Is that a smirk you see on their faces?

That slap in the face hurts, but more importantly, it makes you stop and take inventory.

When you look around a little more closely, you realize that most of the kids who have been eating cookies are skinny as a rail, gaunt and sallow, and it's clear they haven't been eating their dinner. They've been subsisting on a sugar-high, with no real sustenance, and the only exercise they get any more is to throw cookies at each other. What started out as an adjunct to a healthy lifestyle has turned into something really bad for the very kids you wanted to reward. And it's not even entirely their fault. A lot of the kids would really like to eat dinner, but just don't have room after all the cookies you supplied. A lot of the kids would like to follow the rules, but they've been breaking them so long they've forgotten which rules even matter. It seems they've actually developed a taste for cookies covered with crawling ants?

How long would you continue putting cookies into that same cookie jar?

We need a new cookie jar, guys. One, maybe, that can be nailed to the ground. And, sadly, we need to get rid of those kids who came into our neighborhood JUST for a quick sugar-high. We need to get rid of the ones who like the taste of ants. They won't be missed. Only then can we make room for those who want a little steak and potatoes with their cookies.
Poet deVine
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51 posted 05-06-2002 02:19 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

That's a perfect analogy. So instead of crying over spilt cookies, guys, how can we go about setting up a jar of raisins(healthy snack).
Skyfire
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52 posted 05-06-2002 04:11 PM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

"I think many thought that there should have been at least a warning..."

There WERE warnings though Andrew. Many of them. How many threads have you seen in there about the direction Teen Chat was headed in? If one really sits down and thinks about what was going on in there, one would see that there were warnings all over the place. I don't know how often you checked in there, but I do know that things started to get really REALLY nasty after you left. But I'm not going to argue with you; we've got different opinions.

Raisins? Does it have to be raisins?  Anyway, how to set up a jar of raisins? Give Teen Chat a break for a few weeks, let the kids who wanted the sugar high drift off to their own things, and then re-open the raisin jar. That might actually boost up Teen Poetry again too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like over the past few days, every time I've stuck my head in there, the amount of new posts has increased. That's just my personal observation though.  Raisins?
LCBS
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Connecticut


53 posted 05-06-2002 06:20 PM       View Profile for LCBS   Email LCBS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LCBS

The thing is, once we nail down the cookie jar....what are we going to do to stop them from bruising kids?  And when we do replace them with raisins...wht kid is gonna want to come to the cookie jar anymore?

We have to find a median.....a compromise that makes both Mature adults and us teenagers happy.

Like....you can have a cookie, but you need to have something healthy too.  Isn't it key to have "everything in moderation."


Ok, so you either understood what I was saying, or you think I'm crazy!


~Lisa
Poet deVine
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54 posted 05-06-2002 06:24 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Oatmeal cookies with raisins then?


So translate this into a discussion forum recipe and what do you have?
LCBS
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55 posted 05-06-2002 06:32 PM       View Profile for LCBS   Email LCBS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LCBS

Wow, I love it! Oatmeal raisin cookies! Perfect!


so we have:
(1) Raisins....a flavorful kick of poetry, a good and healthy snacking food

(2)surgar...a taste of ranting and gossipy teenagers stuff....(fat free of course, which means no name calling, swearing, or references to drugs)


(3) The correct baking time....give us freedom to "rise" to the occasion (who knows, we might surprise you with how well we bake up)

(4) The right heat...with some pressure, we can bake these cookies until every poet on the block has their hands in our cookie jar, and waits patiently and respectfully to get their cookie

Did I miss anything?


~Lisa

Jenn Cirrincione
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56 posted 05-06-2002 06:40 PM       View Profile for Jenn Cirrincione   Email Jenn Cirrincione   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jenn Cirrincione

Well, I understand that. HOWEVER, can we really compare "eating their dinner" to the poetry section? I mean truth be told, we have no idea whether those members read poetry and just don't reply. Can we ever really FORCE those people who partake in teen chat to reply and post poetry? I mean, is that an actual guideline? I'm sure there are a few members who are unregistered who can access the regular forums (discussion) and reply without having the password required for other forum posts. I'm also sure you have many people who frequent other forums while never replying to poems; and/or never posting their own.

Does this mean we should close feelings? Or the Alley? Or whatever forum this may also occur in? Is it an actual rule that they must "eat their dinner" in teen poetry so to speak?


"I can't get you out of my head- your love is all I think about."

[This message has been edited by Jenn Cirrincione (05-06-2002 06:41 PM).]

Sunshine
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57 posted 05-06-2002 06:46 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


Gotta watch those cruise cookies...but the analogy is right on target.  We haven't given those who might be away enough time to even discover that the cookie jar has been removed.  I feel we will need to keep this thread alive [or ones like it] for a few more weeks, just to see if those teens who came here for poetry first will discover that...poetry, on this particular website, still comes first and I am trusting that just because the forum for chat has been closed, doesn't mean that they have lost the right to use their imaginations, pens, and talents, to post poetry.

[This message has been edited by Sunshine (05-06-2002 06:47 PM).]

LCBS
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58 posted 05-06-2002 06:50 PM       View Profile for LCBS   Email LCBS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LCBS

But as I see it, the Alley and Feelings isnt having a problem...The alley and Feelings have Respect and Tolerance.  And that is what Ron and the Mods are trying to say...I think....


~Lisa
DancinQueen
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59 posted 05-06-2002 07:28 PM       View Profile for DancinQueen   Email DancinQueen   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for DancinQueen

Well I've been absent for awhile from PIP just because of things not related in any manner to here. But I for one am very disapointed it was removed. For me, it was where I had my chance to relieve stress and just talk about nothing and act like a teenager. Allan mentioned in the DM thread over this topic that before Teen Chat was popular we all expressed things to one another through poetry in teen #3,4,5. My argument is that not all of us can do that all the time. Especially me, I haven't been able to write in 500 years. Teen chat gave me a break from everything. And I know there were a few "sour apples" at times, but you'll have that anywhere, especially among teenagers. And I know that people complained, which irritates me, because if they didnt like what was being discussed, simply dont read it or dont go to Teen Chat. But its hard for some of us to stay in touch with other members without Teen Chat because of lack of resources (being some have MSN, some have IM, ect..) Maybe a Chat section should be opened up for everyone here? I dont know, and I'm sure someone or everyone will have an objective opinion on everything ive said, but its just what I think.

**You can't always trust the people you want to**

LCBS
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60 posted 05-06-2002 07:31 PM       View Profile for LCBS   Email LCBS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LCBS

I actually had the idea of a pip "chat room" type thing before...

try here: http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum19/HTML/000186.html
Low Man's Lyric
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since 04-03-2001
Posts 1124
In a dream


61 posted 05-06-2002 10:36 PM       View Profile for Low Man's Lyric   Email Low Man's Lyric   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Low Man's Lyric's Home Page   View IP for Low Man's Lyric

Ron - I agree with you 100% about profanity, I do swear from time to time when I talk. Truth is my parents don't care if I swear or not but Im not one of those people who use a swear in every sentence. And I am careful not to swear around people who might get offended like my grand parents for example. One time I was talking in class (everyone else was talking, so it was pretty loud) and I was telling this story to a friend and the teacher over heard it and said "Aaron, I think you can replace those words with more appropriate ones", and I turned around and said "Oh come on, I'm 19 and I think I am old enough to decide what words I want to use or not, besides its not like I swear all the time." He had this startled face on him and he said nothing back, ha ha ha good times...

No signature for now, come back later. Oh wait, isn't this one?

chasing rain
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since 05-15-2001
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Canada


62 posted 05-06-2002 11:46 PM       View Profile for chasing rain   Email chasing rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chasing rain

It's about time I came back, eh? ^_^

I felt guilty about "running away" because I was frustrated with Teen Chat. Frustrated at the pointless threads that were exclusive, inside jokes that were never explained and were really meant for e-mails and the sort...frustrated because what I had known since I first joined pip was now no longer in existance. As more and more teens joined, teen chat expanded. Moreso than teen poetry. No one got to know each other as well because there were so many threads to join. You'd just simply pop in and join the conversations, trying desperately to fit in, only to be ignored, or welcomed maybe once...but welcomes didn't last very long. Eventually, one would form dislikes to certain members, or maybe make a few friends. Either way, that exclusion was never really fixed. But this is only what I've seen so far...nothing incredibly factual. I just didn't want to run away again.
All I really wanted to do was write poetry. I really didn't care how many replies one of my poems got because inside, I told myself that the number of replies did not determine the poet. I also noted something. The "newbies" who joined pip have been posting a lot of poetry, but have hardly been getting replies. Replies are there to give encouragement. For me, the replies I received when I first joined pip inspired me to expand my poetic horizons and I improved in those first few months tremendously. But lately, the replies have dwindled in teen poetry due to teen chat, and I guess...in a psychological point of view, the reason why maybe some of the new members are posting so much poetry is that they hope to be recognized, and they believed that maybe they weren't getting the recognition because the people who knew each other in teen chat only replied to their friends' poetry. That's just a thought though, and I know I'm getting off topic, so I'm going to go eat and oreo and go to bed. ^^; Good luck to everyone on this subject. Hopefully, something good will come out of all of this, if there hasn't already. ^_^

-Leah

Skyfire
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63 posted 05-07-2002 12:10 AM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

LOL Lisa I love it! Too great!

Leah, don't feel guilty about "running away". You're not the only one. Glad to see you around again
Kit McCallum
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64 posted 05-07-2002 07:41 AM       View Profile for Kit McCallum   Email Kit McCallum   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kit McCallum

Leah, I think you've encapsulated the feelings of many of the Teens who may not be here any longer to point out some of the things you've noted.  I was often disturbed when I'd see a note saying yet another active/regular member was leaving or when I simply noticed that a very active/regular member suddenly disappeared with no known reason.

Over time, I've e-mailed several Teens I was close to directly, to try to identify if there was a "problem" at PiP or if they were just moving on in the normal course of their life, which can also happen as lives take different turns.  Amongst their own personal reasons, I often heard a variety of things very similar to what you have noted above personally ...
DancinQueen
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65 posted 05-07-2002 04:00 PM       View Profile for DancinQueen   Email DancinQueen   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for DancinQueen

They never leave for good, they ALWAYS come back

**You can't always trust the people you want to**

Interloper
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Member Rara Avis
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Deep in the heart


66 posted 05-07-2002 04:04 PM       View Profile for Interloper   Email Interloper   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Interloper

Aaron,

A wise man I once know told me that using profanity simply showed the world your lack of vocabulary.  I haven't used profanity since that day.

BTW, I can get my point across just as well, amybe even better, without using profanity and I am much more fulfilled, especially when I see those looks that say "what did he say?"
stace_co2003
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In a dream world


67 posted 05-07-2002 04:26 PM       View Profile for stace_co2003   Email stace_co2003   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit stace_co2003's Home Page   View IP for stace_co2003

I'm so horribly confused.

I left awhile back because of the immaturaty level, and because I no longer felt wanted there anymore, so I finally decide to come back and visit today and just say hello to everybody, get all excited as the screen pulls up and 'WHAT??" there is no teen chat. Now I do understand that it's gone downhill from when I first joined. It was a fun place to be then, we got to know each other, there was never any real fighting, you could share your soul with those people and none of them would mind. I don't know what ahppened exactly (and I don't think my input is really helping any yet, so let's get to what I really wanted to say.)

Even though I stopped going to teen chat, I miss it. I miss my friends that I had made in there.  But even I recognize the need to pull it. When the forum becomes much like high school, it's not a good sign. You had cliques in there. Some would swear up and down that there weren't any, but I saw thema ll the time. if you werent apart of the clique, you were nothing. You were ignored. And that is never the way to go about things. So, it is much like HS. But all you have to do is reopen it with more strict rules. I admit that in the venting thread, I said somethings that didn't need to be said, but that was mostly frustration taking over. Let us get to know one another, but yet talk about the poetry at the same time.

If you are feeling unsuccessful just think about this: eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Alexia
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68 posted 05-07-2002 09:50 PM       View Profile for Alexia   Email Alexia   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alexia

Yeah, Agree with some people in here. I haven't been around piptalk all that much b/c of some of the people there. They were rude and certain people had there own "clicks" and wouldn't worry about talking to anyone else. I think we all did need a break from teenchat for awhile. I think it was closed for the best. But maybe in a few months or something it will be reopened.
But then again, us teens usually bicker and call each other names, (Profanity) but I mean thats just how sum of us teens are. Adults can curse but Teens cant? Well we learn our language from our parents and other people. Sometimes it slips. And about the drug thing? What if someone had a problem and they needed some advice? What we can't post something about drugs? Thats in our society today. We should be able to talk freely about it. I mean, not to get anyone to use them but talk about it.  Maybe someone is addicted or a friend is, and they don't know where to turn to? Can they come here for advice? I think we should have been able to talk about that sort of thing. I know I would have liked to. I think we should have had a Teen thing for teen's .. 15 and older or around something like that. So we could talk about things, that us teens go threw everyday. But I guess we weren't suppose to talk about that kind of stuff in there?
But back to getting to my point, we all have our own opinion's and we should all express them even if it means using vauglar language, but we just can't use that in here. I'm glad you closed TeenChat for the time being. We all needed a break and hopefully when it opens back up (if it opens back up) we'll all get along better since we all had a break and it'll all be for the better. Most of the people left because of what was happening in TeenChat. Alot of people left including myself. Because of the way other people acted. Thats my opinion on the subject.
Thanks for listening
Alexia aka Megz

ĪSmile, because you never know who'z in love with itĪ

angel_2401
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since 06-12-2001
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69 posted 05-08-2002 04:56 PM       View Profile for angel_2401   Email angel_2401   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit angel_2401's Home Page   View IP for angel_2401

I agree with Stacy. I came here mainly for poetry, but I never really came more open with my poetry until I was introduced into teen chat. I left for the same reason Stacy did, we both left at the same time. Then, my school life got the best of me, and I coudln't come to Pip as often, cuz I didn't have time to write the poetry I so loved to do before. I never realized that Teen Chat had become so bad, if I did, I would have at least tried to help the bickering and all.

As for Pip itself, when I have time to write once again, I will come back here and share my poetry. Until then, this might be the last post you'll hear from me for a while.

Kristin
AngelShell
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not heaven nor hell so...


70 posted 06-14-2002 11:28 PM       View Profile for AngelShell   Email AngelShell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for AngelShell

I realize that I am extremely late in the conversation and indeed in PIP in it's entirety...
I used to be a very active member of PIP, posting in the Teen Poetry site almost everyday if the creative juices would allow so...then Teen Chat came along...
At first is a was a brilliant idea, there was no where teens could go where they felt comfortable where they didn't have to write poetry...however, after a while, Teen Chat, I agree, turned to mush...there were little groups that seemed to control it and even as one of the earlier instigators of the forum I felt left out...thus my departure from Pip...
I agree whole heartedly that Teen Chat should have been closed down because what Teen Chat did was also lower the standard of the poetry being posted in Teen Poetry.
People were coming to the chat forum and just flung on unthought, unemotional pieces for the sake of it.
It really became quite a sad sight...

I think those who are upset about it's removal need to grow up...but then again, that was the problem, they weren't mature.
And while I agree that Teens should feel free to bicker as it's what we do best, when it gets to the stage where others feels excluded, surely that's got to be seen as a problem.

More power to you for removing it!  Don't give it back unless they deserve it!

Angel Shell.
Skyfire
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71 posted 06-15-2002 01:27 AM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

Kudos!!
nakdthoughts
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Between the Lines


72 posted 06-15-2002 09:48 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

It seems they've actually developed a taste for cookies covered with crawling ants?


Ron, your analogy was so perfect..it's something I want to save for myself for I know someday I will need  to read it again or maybe share it with others in my life.

Rules and guidelines are here for a reason, and I myself  broke them twice... the first when new and without having any knowledge to what I was even doing because I got caught up in the hype of the moment or moments and the defensive mode took over in me.
Hopefully I have internet matured since my second explosion of internal hurt and I promised myself it will never happen again.
So I can see where once in a while lines get crossed...but after all, this is a poetry site and meant for fellowship and I have been following this discussion and do love reading the teens poetry when there are some posted.
I use to be amazed at the long threaded  phrase-like conversations going on where the average person reading had no idea what was  being discussed..seemed like just joking and flirting and absolutely no way to follow it, as if  there was also behind the scene emailing or chatting going  on too.
So many probably felt slighted when they can't join in. Sometimes that seems to happen other places too but never to the degree it happened on teens. I hope they can resolve it someday soon and  find a way to bring it back more into the theme of poetry  like many of us do on open, we even respond in poetry  even if it is light hearted chatting.

I hope I make sense...anyway I  thought Rons
last response made so much sense, and included all aspects of the discussion.
Erin
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since 06-15-2000
Posts 2681
~Chicago~


73 posted 06-17-2002 04:21 AM       View Profile for Erin   Email Erin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Erin

I know I havent been around alot lately but I still want to express my opinion on this subject.

When I first started coming to PIP I loved it. It was the only thing I did on the internet. I loved reading the work, posting my work, and having my work read. But now its like I come here once in a great while, its just changed so much.

I know I have posted things in Teen Chat that had nothing to do with poetry. I was just bored. And I noticed that there were twice as my replies in Chat then in Teen #5, and #5 had twice as many posts. I dont know if the replies in Teen have gone up since Chat has closed but I know I havent replied  or even posted my own work in a little bit.

In my opinion there were topics like Vicky's that Kit had brought up, people posted stuff that had nothing to even do with the topic. It went from "what brought us to passions etc., to the movie "Black Hawk Down", to "nicknames". It got to the point where alot of the topics were pointless or somehow the subject changed completely. And honestly I dont think that there is any reason to post anything if the topic is gonna jump from the main subject to something completely different. I know I have done things before like that too.

I believe that it was a good thing for Chat to pulled from the boards. I mean if thats what its gonna take for us to realize that we are going overboard with it then let it be. We cant have everything we want.

I know I had something else to say but I have a lot on my mind and really cant remember but when i do remember I will be back!

~If love isn't a game, why are there so many players~

JP
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since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


74 posted 06-18-2002 10:09 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Just a few thoughts...

How many moderators here get paid to do what they do?  None?  Hmmmm, interesting that they do the job they do for the love of it rather than profit, and yet we suggest they do more by taking on the role of parent so they few in Teen chat can disregard they own obligation to govern themselve's and their behavior?

Maybe this is just an old father talking here, but if my teen is being unruly, and I 'steer' her the right way and she continues to be unruly, I do what parents do.  I take her in hand and resolve the situation, sometimes she loses privilages...  kinda what Ron did.

My point?  Heck, I rarely have a point, but if I did...  The Teen Chat is temporarily gone, it should stay that way for a while longer.  No one in PiP world should be saddled with more responsibility to direct the efforts of those using the forums.  If the users cannot abide by the guidelines established, than yank the privilages.

IMNSHO

Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient

 
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