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Passions in Poetry

I am more than slightly upset

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Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap

0 posted 03-05-2002 10:48 PM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

Just got the word on some tests my 6-year-old daughter took at school for entrance in the Gifted program there.
She scored exceedingly high in every area but two -- the teacher's recommendation, and the test for creativity.

This is a child who became so bored with assignments she was getting in class (which she finished in minutes, WELL ahead of the rest of the students) that she took out her box of crayons, and using her fingernail, carved tiny shavings off the end, then proceeded to glue them to an obliging paper towel in the shape of a very convincing, if somewhat psychedelic, flower.

But she's not creative. Nope.

Scatterbrained, willful, yes. The issue with the teacher's recommendation thing stems from an incident in kindergarten which labeled her a "problem child." During free time one day, an older child from another class that had been giving her a bit of grief decided to throw an eraser at her, which hit her in the eye. Kahlan, not being one to sit quietly by, walked up to this child, balled her hand into a fist, shoved it up in his face and said "If you do that again, I'll kill you."

Fair enough that this happened pretty soon after the whole Columbine shooting thing, but she was 5 years old for heaven's sake. Did they really think she was going to follow through?? She was suspended from school for a day, which completely mortified her (she loves school).

So, being the only child in the history of mankind to get suspended from kindergarten, my child has the dubious honor of carrying skeletons in her academic closet at the tender age of 6. Yes, she's bored in class -- no wonder, when she reads at a 3-4th grade level reliably, and considerably higher when her attention span allows. No wonder, when she has ALL her times tables memorized, while the other children are still struggling with the 6's ...

So yes, I am pissed at her school in general, and am constantly amazed at these peoples' ability to hold a grudge against a 6-year-old girl. Nonetheless, back to the main point ...

Out of 100, my daughter scored 95 or above on every other section of the test, including 3 straight up 100s. On creativity, she got a 10.

First off, how do you make a reliable test for creativity? Isn't it a highly subjective, and therefore difficult to measure, quality? I've never met any two creative persons in my life whose minds worked the same way (or even markedly similar ways), so WHO are these people to tell my daughter, or anyone's daughter for that matter, that they simply aren't "creative" enough??? I'm amazed that the poor child was able to keep her mind on the testing in the first place, since it took the better part of 2 days.

Something makes me think that Kahlan is better off not partaking in these classes if the people running them think creativity can be measured by standardized tests, but I am seriously considering having her tested elsewhere by a more impartial judge. It breaks my heart when she asks why she hasn't started her "special classes" that they touted so much to her when they were trying to persuade me to have her tested. Before I even try to explain that her teachers and administrators don't have the faintest idea what they are talking about, I'd like a second opinion to back me up ...

Now, I took these "gifted" tests a long time ago and did well on them also, but I don't remember what they were like (I was in second grade). Does anyone who has practical experience in this area want to explain to me how creativity can be measured quantitatively?


Elizabeth Cor
Senior Member
since 10-13-2000
Posts 906
Oregon (yeah!)

1 posted 03-05-2002 11:48 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth Cor   Email Elizabeth Cor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Elizabeth Cor

Linda, I don't have advice or information to give you, though I wish I did. Still, I wanted to reply to say *Hugs*, sorry for your frustration and impotence at the moment, and that this whole incident just PISSES ME OFF... empathetic steam, hon... please give us updates on this situation.

And, I mean, come on, she's YOUR daughter... *scoff* What more proof do they need???
Senior Member
since 06-08-99
Posts 1801

2 posted 03-06-2002 12:06 AM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

It is unfortunate you are upset. Hopefully your daughter will not now also be upset.  No one likes their child to be considered anything less than the best.  But such is life.  I have three children who were in gifted programs their entire educational experience.  My fourth, who only managed to score in the 95th percentile, failed to meet the qualifying scores.  In the scheme of things that matter, it made not one iota of difference.  A child is not gifted because of tests on intellect or creativity.  Each child is gifted because they are a unique individual blessed with their own special talents.  Your daughter needs to know that she is special because she was selected to be tested, and the results show she can do or be anything she desires.  Being, or not being in a gifted program, is not going to stand in the way of her fulfillment in either her education or life.  
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Member Ascendant
since 12-27-2000
Posts 5766

3 posted 03-06-2002 12:16 AM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

Ah, teachers are stupid anyway. Those ones, at least. *Hugs* Linda. I don't know what else to say.

Just don't fall in love with me and no one will get hurt

Member Elite
since 08-19-2000
Posts 2361
Queensland, Australia

4 posted 03-06-2002 04:38 PM       View Profile for Dee   Email Dee   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dee

Linda, I am blessed with a gifted child (not so much a child now though) She was able to read and write before she went to school, which the teachers thought amazing. They had her do some reading test(??) in pre school with big promises for her. Then nothing. She didn't go into a higher class, she didn't have special classes, nothing.
She was bored in class too. So she found ways to teach herself and do things that were up to her standards.
She has gone on to do well at University, honours, distinctions etc all the time.
Maybe there is some way you can do like Bec did and teach your daughter the extra she needs. Giving her assignments that will push her limits and keep her learning and happy. You are creative too so I am sure you can come up with things for her to do. Or maybe there is a private school, if you can afford it, that would be willing to take your daughter on?
I hope it all works out well for you both.


I wish you every happiness and may you always have the best of the good things in life.     a brand

Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration

5 posted 03-06-2002 05:59 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

i'll teach her to drink beer and play cards!

seriously - one of my biggest concerns with public education is that (by necessity, granted) it is focused on a group and not an individual - but there is such a HUGE difference from one to the next, that the generalized averages fall far short of idealistic. add to that the need to not let those who learn slower fall too far behind, we end up with an education system geared toward the wrong goals... not wrong-minded, because i think the intentions are good... just wrong in the outcome. there NEEDS to be segregation in schools - of learning types. 'special' classes, in theory, help with this - but with the overabundance of children vs. teachers, all they're doing is slightly culling a larger group, into a just slightly less condensed one. as someone said above - tests mean little when they don't even know what they're testing for. wish i could help you send her to private scholl.



(oh, btw - i assume this weekend's a no go?)
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA

6 posted 03-06-2002 10:11 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Linda - are you sure you're not describing my Cassandra?? We have EXACTLY the same problem.. We're totally frustrated with her teacher - and do recall that I AM one in the same system... but we've got an extremely bad match for her, and we can't wait until she moves out of this class... I truly do empathize..

Anything else I might have to say really belongs in a private email, m'friend...
Senior Member
since 12-01-1999
Posts 1526
Washington State

7 posted 03-08-2002 07:39 PM       View Profile for Irie   Email Irie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irie


I have to admit I don’t know much about creativity testing at all. Though, with what time I had I managed to find an interesting quote.
Intelligence tests DO NOT measure creativity or personality characteristics, but there are other tests available to address these aspects, if relevant to the child.

So what I understand from this is this shouldn’t be a deciding factor. Am I wrong?
I do believe this short quote says a whole lot, again, unless I interpreted it.  

I don’t understand teachers these days either. I know exactly how you feel about having you child labeled. My son is nearly 5 and is currently in pre-school. He has been doing great for the last 2 years. He now is in a new classroom with a new teacher. She has picked him out of the crowd and labeled him. Not only has she labeled him; she humiliates him, along with other children, in front of the entire class. When I saw this happening I had him removed from her class immediately! I was so angry I could have slapped her.  
Actually, a week before I saw this, my son kicked her and called her a name I can’t repeat here. (Just think of a donkey)
I punished him for his actions, as they are not acceptable at all.
On the other hand, I don’t blame him for doing what he did. I would have done the same.

After several weeks my son was begging me to return to his class where all of his friends were. Against my better judgment, I let him return. He was functioning at a much lower level in other class because he was so unhappy. Once he returned to his own class, he was very happy and was doing quite well. His teacher on the other hand pulled me aside EVERYDAY to tell me what he had done today. After a few days I finally asked her if other children in her class were doing the same TRIVIAL things. She said yes, there were others. Once again, getting angry and wanting to slap her, I told her unless my son hits, kicks, name-calls or threatens to kill someone, I DON’T WANT TO HEAR IT!
Unfortunately I fear I will have to be removing him from his class permanently now, as the cycle has started all over again. Only this time, the other kids in the class have him labeled now as well due to her public humiliations.
I am filing a complaint with the school board in hopes that a stop is put to this.
She has no business being in a school, anywhere! The sad thing is, the rest of the teachers in that school are wonderful.

Anyway, I’m starting to ramble, and I am also at work.
So I should go but I’ll check back later. I hope you find the answers you need!

OK, now lets scream together, on the count of three!


Ah, that feels a little better!



"The things that come to those that wait may be the things
left by those who got there first"

since 02-23-2001
Posts 489
Sunshine Coast

8 posted 03-25-2002 09:48 PM       View Profile for Bec   Email Bec   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bec

Hi Skyfyre...

Firstly, "Mu-um, you don't have to say that to all these people!!" *lol* I'm kidding.

Secondly, what Mum (Dee) said. I taught myself heaps of stuff. I played recorder and glockenspiel in the school band, I taught myself, in a minor way, to play the organ, I was a Brownie and a Girl Guide, which encourages creativity and learning. As a kid I always read at a higher level than the rest of my class, and when I was seven or eight, my teacher decided to let me write stories as a creative outlet when I had finished my work and had nothing to do.

Persevere, and if you think that your daughter needs a more challenging environment, as long as it wouldn't disrupt her too much, consider changing her school. Discuss it with her first, because she is certainly intelligent enough to be able to understand what's going on, and to have valuable input.

Hope this helps.


"Poetry and Hums aren't things which you get, they're things which get you. And all you can do is to go where they can find you."

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