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Passions in Poetry

Plagarism

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Poet deVine
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0 posted 01-07-2002 08:09 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine


What do you think of this article?
http://forbes.com/2002/01/07/0107ambrose.html


It's hard enough when someone comes along on the internet and plagarizes your work, but how do you feel about someone of this stature doing it?
Nan
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1 posted 01-07-2002 08:12 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

It seems like it wouldn't have been so difficult to add a few quotation marks, ya think??..
Skyfire
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2 posted 01-07-2002 08:30 PM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

Yeah, I heard about that over the radio! Geeze, that makes me annoyed!

You know you're Canadian when if something's broken, the first thing you ask is if it can be fixed with WD-40 or Duct Tape

doreen peri
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3 posted 01-07-2002 08:45 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

he admitted he made an error by  not using quotation marks and said he would correct it in all future editions.

i find that commendable.

his editors should have caught it.

seems to me, the man made a mistake, it has been addressed, he has apologized and the public should forgive him and let him correct the matter.

he should probably find a new editor and publisher who will do a more thorough job.
Poet deVine
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4 posted 01-07-2002 08:58 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

You don't think he did it on purpose?
doreen peri
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5 posted 01-07-2002 10:02 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

no, not from reading the quotes of his

i think articles are written based on what the writer of the article thinks.

if you go through that article and read only the author himself said about the error, only his quotes and none of the analysis, maybe you'll agree with me...

or maybe i'm wrong... very tired tonight.... i'll come back and read it again tomorrow and re-evaluate it...

for now, though, that's how i see it... i mean, hell, even in one of the quotes of his, he used an apostrophe at the wrong place and the article writer wrote "(sic)",,,, perhaps he has a lot of great insight and is a fine writer but isn't as adept as he should be at the necessary precision of punctuation, who knows..?

i think it's dangerous to blame someone of plaigiarism especially when they come right out and say, "you're right, i screwed up, i'll fix it, i'm sorry" (paraphrased)

i'm a firm believer in giving everybody, bar none, the benefit of the doubt.....

but i'll read it again tomorrow and maybe look for more info on this too

do YOU think he did it on purpose? and if so, why?
doreen peri
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6 posted 01-07-2002 10:03 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

and again... i think it's the responsibility of the publisher to make sure things like that are corrected, no matter what
Nan
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7 posted 01-08-2002 07:05 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

I'm with you on this issue, Doreen..
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8 posted 01-08-2002 09:48 AM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

arghhhh now this is bothering me

I love Stephen Ambrose as a WWII writer

l o est mon amour?
donde est mi amour?
wo ist meine Liebe?
Nelly Furtado a menina a mais bonita no mundo largo do todo.

Poet deVine
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9 posted 01-08-2002 10:30 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Two different publishers at 20 year intervals should have read both books line by line? Is that what the publisher or editor does? Where does the writer's responsiblity lie here? I've read several articles about this and I am curious as to how it could have happened. Using phrases verbatim without the benefit of quotation marks, I can understand. But to use phrases or sentences and reword them just a tad, that doesn't sound quite the same to me.
Irish Rose
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10 posted 01-08-2002 10:59 AM       View Profile for Irish Rose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irish Rose

I read this. I am an avid reader. I have to catch myself at times repeating in a piece something I've read somewhere, a phrase, word or even a thought!  It can be done innocently.  Only this man knows, I guess if it was done on purpose. In my opinion, from reading the article, it seems it was and I wonder if he only apologized because he was found out?  I don't know, I'm not judging, Lord knows, there's enough of that in the world!  I'll leave it to the editorial minds to figure it out.  It just makes me, as a writer, be much more careful as to what I write and in what context.

Interesting article.

Kathleen--
Neither genius, fame, nor love show the greatness of the soul.
Only kindness can do that. ~Jean Baptiste Henri Lacordaire~

Sudhir Iyer
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11 posted 01-31-2002 12:04 PM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

maybe he is naive...
maybe he is a thief...

Either way, the act is wrong. He has apologized, and I am not the one to judge his sincerity. IMHO.... I guess...

I am confused about the whole copying other's stuff business...

would he have apologized if no one had found out? now that is speculation...

whatever... i guess I am too tired to think, and I have been away for long...

regards to all,
sudhir
doreen peri
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12 posted 01-31-2002 12:27 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

i meant to come back to this and forgot... jeesh.... i'm glad it came back up to the top to remind me

not too long after you originally posted this, sharon, i was listening to public radio and they were discussing this topic. They had a female voice reading a paragraph or 2 from one of the texts and a male voice reading from Ambrose's text.... at the exact same time.... and simultaneously, too... hehe

it was a dramatically vivid presentation...

after hearing it, i must say, i must retract my previous comments

seemed to me quite clear it was plaigiarism

also, on the same show, they interviewed an author who has written a book about plaigiarism (supposedly an expert on such matters)... i wrote down his name and the title of his book but unfortunately misplaced it...phooey... His opinion leaned toward plaigiarism in this case, but he also offered some interesting comments about how writers do research when writing history books or novels about history, etc. He said that those writers need to be exceptionally organized because they usually take a LOT of notes from many different sources. Without being extremely organized, he said, it becomes easier to make a "mistake" like this.

Does anybody know the current status of this matter?
Poet deVine
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13 posted 01-31-2002 01:28 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Since the original article, several other authors have come forward to state that their work was used without their knowledge in Mr. Ambrose's books. One came to light within the last couple of days..from 1970! Either he's not very good with his notes or his editors have been very lax for 30 years!!

He seems very blase about it! He never made corrections in the reprints of the books first published in 1970.
doreen peri
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14 posted 02-01-2002 09:02 AM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

thanks for that update, sharon

this is incredibly sad

it's good this has come to the public eye

i wonder how widespread this type of thing is.... i mean, Ambrose has been around and widely respected for many years.... seems strange that it took so long for this to come to light

i know i won't buy his books and i think that would be a good response in general.... money talks...

he's blase about all this? that's disheartening.... do the authors who were plaigiarized have any recourse, i wonder?

hmmm
 
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