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Passions in Poetry

Answers For America

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Bilby
Junior Member
since 07-31-2001
[First Post] 14
Northern Territory, Australia


0 posted 09-13-2001 04:55 AM       View Profile for Bilby   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bilby

somebody hijacked those oddly diverting images of
devastation in miserably distant cities
and slammed them into middle America, half way up.

staring at the rubble, the Citizens of De-Muck-Rah-Cy
tried to put it into context: dammit, no-one warned about this
on MTV, on Oprah, on AOL, on Nickelodious

yet, those cranky yankee eyes lifted beyond
flag-waving retribution may see shreds of
steely truth among still-smoking debris

the fragments of a world trade centre look startlingly
similar to a television tower in Belgrade
cindered by guileless missile

the starkly violated frame of a Pentagon bears the air of
wounded innocence of a Sudanese milk factory
unerringly hell-fired from afar

the bodies of emergency workers in their dismal
death smell as jarringly repulsive as dumb
villagers of My Lai so effectively exterminated in four hours

the shock writ deep upon onlookers, residents, patriots
chillingly resembles the disbelief of rescuers pulling dismembered
Iraqi children from the shelter where they had cowered

dismiss not, if you please, the dishonour roll of hot
wars and cold wars, overt and covert wars, gun-running, assassinations,
invasions and missile diplomacy all cunningly made in Uncle Sam,
not the inventor of international thuggery, no,
merely its arch exponent in myriad forms - from
carpet bombing to baby-emaciating sanctions -
across a wounded world kept forever in necessary pain by
stars-and-stripes imperialism,
the high-tech torture rack of the age

dismiss it, perhaps, while you bury the dead and wipe your eyes,
but do not remove it from the smouldering horizon of your
collaterally-damaged national conscience
for therein will you find the answers:
a veritable 767 load of come-uppance
with all the answers
Charisma
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Ascendant
since 09-30-2000
Posts 6029
lost in blue pages


1 posted 09-13-2001 05:51 AM       View Profile for Charisma   Email Charisma   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Charisma's Home Page   View IP for Charisma

Welcome to passions. Powerful entrance that shows some answers.

Check your mail for e special greeting!

Charisma
Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 11-06-1999
Posts 43042
Florida's Foreverly Shores


2 posted 09-13-2001 07:41 AM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

Occupation: writer? sort of :-)

Location: Northern Territory, Australia

Interests: cyborg poetry, *Sufism, sepak takraw, Indonesian

E-mail:alanyx@hotmail.com

I think your interest in *Islamic Mysticism is sadly evident in your biased views of our tragedy.

Actually, I'm not fond of the form of your sort of writing OR the content.
But then, what do I know ? I actually AM a stars and stripes writer, burying my dead and wiping my eyes~

Graced with the freedoms that America affords her citizens,
we're BOTH entitled to our opinions.
However, in America no one makes us respect the others should we happen to vehemently disagree with it.
~*Marge*~

~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
                                   noles1@totcon.com            

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


3 posted 09-13-2001 08:37 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Acts of war are indeed atrocious.  Acts of terrorism are beyond despicable and affrontive to all humankind.  There is a distinct difference.

While war has been an integral part of  our planet's history since the inception of time, any of us would surely rewrite those dark times if we could.

As our planet pulls its hands together in prayer, there are surely those who who stand in deference.

It is with a heavy heart that I leave this post intact.  I do so only because of the FREEDOM of speech that the great United States of America is founded upon.  The philosophy of Passions in Poetry  is that all of our members are welcome to express their feelings - provided they do not glorify harm to oneself or others.

If you are indeed a "new"  member of our family, you obviously don't understand our network of worldwide mutual support - Perhaps reading some of our poets' works will enlighten you.

If you are a standing member who has registered a new alias for the purpose of posting this 'poem,' you do so with cowardice - for not having sufficient respect to speak your mind openly.
Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


4 posted 09-13-2001 08:41 AM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

In some countries a person would be arrested, assaulted, even assassinated by their own leaders and "powers that be" for simply voicing their opinion as you have just done here...

That's the difference between "us" US and them
Pardon me, for while I respect your right to voice your opinion...as MANY have died guaranteeing us that right
you offer no answers...and this type of disrespect is what will be easily "dismissed."

Poetry Land is a place built on a foundation of respect...you probably wont like it here.
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


5 posted 09-13-2001 09:24 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

and who, my new friend, sends money and food and clothing to these people? we do....who helps rebuild cities and governments...we do..obviously you do not care about us in our time of tragedy...but believe me..WE do...if this happened in ANY country...even in the country of our enemies, we would still feel this pain...

'be the flame' is what you say in your line to encourage critiques...I cannot be the flame for it is being held high right now in the hand of our Lady Liberty.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


6 posted 09-13-2001 10:02 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Due to policies of Passions, I do not feel free to answer you in this forum. Perhaps you should take this one to the alley? I'd buy tickets for that one.
Dark Angel
Member Patricius
since 08-04-99
Posts 10270


7 posted 09-13-2001 10:11 AM       View Profile for Dark Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dark Angel

Um, I think that somehow you have been misguided and I want you to know that I WILL pray for YOU too.
Cpat Hair
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 06-05-2001
Posts 12075


8 posted 09-13-2001 10:21 AM       View Profile for Cpat Hair   Email Cpat Hair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cpat Hair

Interesting entrance into a forum that has for the last few days been grieving for the loss of so many and as most Americans have, been finding the symbols of our country to have new meaning. Bold... some would say audacious entry...

You write well...and some of the things you say in your poem are true...these are some of the reasons for the "hatred" the US seems to find abroad. I do believe however that it is perspective here, not fact, that makes the things you say reasons for this hatred. I have lived through the assasination of JFK, VietNam, Gulf War, Bosnia, and all of the conflict and police actions in between. I grieved then for the loss of life, just as I think most here did. I grieve now for the loss of life on our own soil. Still... regadless of whether the blood spilled was here, or in some other corner of the world, a death is a death, and terrorism is terrorism...all are terrible.

My thoughts wander to the perceptions...and while I know this country is not perfect, that its leaders at times have made difficult maybe even bad choices that resulted in death to others, I would put it side by side with any other nation in the world, and ask all to show me where it worse than any other...No.I personally do not agree with all we have done as a nation, but I do believe it is the best in the world.

Your thoughts are noted....your style appreciated... and our opinions...well suffice it to say different for now. I think perhaps the reasons...are excuses...or twisted perceptions... and I admit, mine is biased...


Mother_Earth
Senior Member
since 11-20-2000
Posts 1387
1/2 year Texas & 1/2 year Mich


9 posted 09-13-2001 10:47 AM       View Profile for Mother_Earth   Email Mother_Earth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mother_Earth

Bilby, I am with all the others from PIP and agree that we have built this United States of AMERICA from all who wanted to start over in freedom.  Maybe we have lost sight of what we stand for.  And in America, you, too have the right to say what you did.  And we have the right to tell you how we feel.  You are another "face-less" person and may you stay that way.  ME
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


10 posted 09-13-2001 10:51 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


Because this has taken on the form of a discussion, it will be moved to pipTalk Lounge.

Thank you.

doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


11 posted 09-13-2001 11:05 AM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

first of all, as JM so aptly said, the United States IS the land of the free because we are able to speak our opinions and THAT is something we are proud of and a privilege and RIGHT which will not allow to be taken away from us.

Yes, there has been blood on every nation's hands.

Your poem speaks some truths but at the same time, it slants them with certainly, with a tone of propaganda. None of us can know all the full truth of every incident of war throughout the world.

Although your writing style is dynamic and forceful and although i deeply respect a poet and writer who is not afraid to speak his or her Truth, I am proud, so very proud, that I live in a nation where ALL OPINIONS can be expressed.... BUT... i do NOT think name calling and political commentary with a bigoted attitude has a place on these forums.

As I said, in acts of war, each country has blood on their hands.... but to call the United States "the inventor of international thuggery", and "stars and stripes imperialism", is simply uncalled for.

Yes, we should try to analyze the "why" this happened, and the "how" it could have happened and as writers and authors and poets, I believe we have a responsibility to the world to speak our Truths and conclusions.

I don't believe,  however, that name calling and accusatory statements are a responsible way of proceeding. During this time of World Grieving, do you really think this type of analysis in the form of poetry does any good? ARen't you flaming the fire, rather than trying to douse it?

The first time I read  your poem, I knew there were many true statements you have made about how the images of what happened on 9/11/2001 in NY and Washington DC seem somewhat reminiscent of other incidents that happened in other areas of the world during times of war.

It wasn't until I read it for the second and third time that I got the full sense of your tone, which seems deliberately accusatory and blatantly full of negative statements about the United States.

The facts are these..... Innocent people have been blatantly murdered by terrorists. The world is in a state of shock. Responsible writing to express an opinion is called for, yes, but name-calling and political propaganda pieces during a time of world grieving is irresponsible and painful.

I received an email today from a friend who wanted to share with me the Libertarian viewpoints of the "why" this could have happened. That mail discussed the history of various past events just as your poem does and was also biased, but at least there was no name-calling as you have done here.

There is no need for that...... instead, let us all look inward and find the peace necessary to deal with this tragedy, look toward the past and try to examine the truths as well as the mistakes of many, and move forward ....... in unity and strength, fighting what SHOULD be fought.... the denial of freedom and the meaningless destruction and loss of innocent life.

Yes, be strong. Accept your calling as a writer to speak the Truth... but please do not slant it with political propaganda.
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


12 posted 09-13-2001 11:58 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

came back to applaud doreen...

[This message has been edited by serenity (edited 09-13-2001).]

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


13 posted 09-13-2001 02:57 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I didn't think he wrote that well at all... in fact.. this is really very bad.
inot2B
Member Elite
since 09-18-2000
Posts 2272
Alabama


14 posted 09-13-2001 04:18 PM       View Profile for inot2B   Email inot2B   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for inot2B

Feel blessed that some of us do not know who you really are. We are a family here and personally you can say what YOU want, but I refuse to think of you as part of OUR family.
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


15 posted 09-13-2001 04:31 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

yep, Reb's right. Someone try to explain what is good about this.
citizenx
Member
since 07-31-2001
Posts 206
motorcade


16 posted 09-13-2001 04:35 PM       View Profile for citizenx   Email citizenx   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for citizenx

People should never be mixed in with politics, living in Ireland I know this well. You have points, valid to an extent but I don't think now is the time to voice them. People are rallying together NOT because of a political ideal or for some slain politician. They are uniting together because thousands of innocent people perished when a hijacked plane crashed into the twin towers. This is not about democracy this is about the deaths of countless innocent people.   People and politics should never be mixed. Yes the free world is not without its sins, but this is not in a time of war. This was an unprovoked attack. Politics are irrelevant it this, also to get technical what happened is in direct violation of the rules of war so this makes your points mute. Please reanalysis the situation, the people who died in that building were innocent and were brutally murdered.    

"The writer who refuses to explore the darker regions of the heart will never be able to write convincingly of the wonder, magic or joy of love" nick

[This message has been edited by citizenx (edited 09-13-2001).]

Acies
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 06-07-2000
Posts 14805
Twilight Zone


17 posted 09-13-2001 05:18 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

Just remember the country that helped and protected you against Obvious Japanese invasion/occupation in WWII.

hi Sweets, Lizzy, Kris, Ina, Allysa, Erica, Minna, Kit, Kamie, Javi, Jenn, Sharon, Nan, Cawlee, Cherish, Ashley, Sara, Justine, Leah, Jess, Kimmie, Ma

Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


18 posted 09-13-2001 05:29 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

I would ask for moderation. I know this is a very difficult time, but that is no excuse for the hurtful, angry and threatening language I've seen in these replies. Though I disagree with the poem, I still respect his freedom of speech, though he might not have been totally responsible with that right.

We are a country of freedom, liberty, and tolerance. Even in this dark time of hurt and anguish, I would ask of you those ideals, even in the face of poetic provocation.

Any further malignant language will result in that reply being deleted. Also, I would encourage those who wish to edit their reply to do so, to keep in accordance with Discussion's and Passion's philosophies.

Alicat
Pax Poeticus
Pax Christu

[This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 09-13-2001).]

anonymousfemale
Member Ascendant
since 02-02-2000
Posts 6304
Limbo


19 posted 09-13-2001 07:56 PM       View Profile for anonymousfemale   Email anonymousfemale   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anonymousfemale

Acire, don't start on the 'we saved you in WW2' etc. It's not needed nor relevant to this topic.

I tend to stick with Australians on this but what you have said isn't right. You must have known that coming into an American based poetry site that piece would stir up trouble. You do have quite a bit of courage for posting it if you already knew but is it really worthy annoying people to that degree?

In the end, it's your opinion and wouldn't the world be a boring place if we all thought and felt the same?

Take care.

"Kelly's my Hero!" "No, Kelly's your heroine." "Kelly has heroin??" "What?"

rwood
Member Elite
since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


20 posted 09-13-2001 08:04 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

quote:
dismiss it, perhaps, while you bury the dead and wipe your eyes,
but do not remove it from the smouldering horizon of your
collaterally-damaged national conscience
for therein will you find the answers:
a veritable 767 load of come-uppance
with all the answers

I Just wanted to ask some valid questions.

Are you saying that if this happened in your country, to you, to someone you knew, to someone you loved, that you'd have a barbecue? Throw a little party? Roast a few weenies on the fire? And CHAT about the sins of your father, your country? The past hashed over with a cigarette and long blows of hot air? Do you think you don't have a horse in this race? Terrorism makes us all potential targets! No matter what our past sums up to. What have you done that is so lily white?


While you think on a decent reply.... We have REAL needs to attend to.  And frankly, even though I value you as another human being, I found your topic misleading and content lacking to address the title. And a bit boring in the face of the NOW, not the past. Please spend some time hugging your family, instead of digging up old bones.  


I can only hope you will rethink your contradicting accusation of our "high-tech torture rack." For such a thing would bring fear to any believer of that grossly judging quote. Obviously you aren't as shaken as we are.


For if you are expecting us to look into our past for answers, then when we retaliate, will you then write a poem to the guilty of this crime and ask them to find theirs? Doesn't make sense to me.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


21 posted 09-13-2001 08:07 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Maybe we should move it to CA then Ali?

And I agree descending into jingoism and personal attacks is really beneath us -- we should stick to the merits of the literature here or absence thereof.

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (edited 09-13-2001).]

Titia Geertman
Member Ascendant
since 05-07-2001
Posts 5297
Netherlands


22 posted 09-13-2001 08:27 PM       View Profile for Titia Geertman   Email Titia Geertman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Titia Geertman's Home Page   View IP for Titia Geertman

To Bilby,

You took your freedom to speak
and used it for hurting people

I'll take my freedom to be silent
and use it for not hurting you

Titia

A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess...
Feel free to use the pictures on my website. http://communities.msn.com/Titiasplace/

Paula Finn
Member Ascendant
since 06-17-2000
Posts 5525
missouri


23 posted 09-14-2001 01:17 AM       View Profile for Paula Finn   Email Paula Finn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Paula Finn

Because I respect my fellow poets I will not say all the angry words this post inspired..instead I will just give you this link...it says it all... http://www.miami.com/herald/content/features/columnists/pitts/digdocs/000565.htm

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


24 posted 09-14-2001 02:36 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I agree with LR and Pete. This is a bad poem. I agree with Alicat, this is no place for threats, personal or otherwise. I agree that it was irresponsible.

I agree with (almost) everything the poem says.

I agree that Americans were blind to the world around us.

I agree that the American government has done bad things.

I agree that the American government has made mistakes.

So what?

I can concede almost everything this poem says because it doesn't matter (anymore).

What happens next is what matters.

Americans didn't know there was a war. Now they do.

Let's see what happens.

Brad
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