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Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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Southern Abstentia

0 posted 08-17-2001 03:43 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

From Compuserve News:

The Harris Poll recently surveyed a cross-section of Americans to find out the people they admire most as heroes. Almost one-quarter put their own father or mother at the top of that list. Parents, congratulate yourselves! Public figures were cited by 57 percent of the respondents, and these are the names in order: Jesus Christ, Martin Luther King Jr., Colin Powell, John F. Kennedy, Mother Teresa, Ronald Reagan, Abraham Lincoln, John Wayne, Michael Jordan, and Bill Clinton. President George W. Bush was No. 31. "Colin Powell's No. 3 ranking is extraordinary," said Humphrey Taylor of The Harris Poll. "He is the only person in the top five who is still alive, and the only person in the top 13 who is fully employed." Colin Powell is the U.S. Secretary of State.

Taylor also noted as "remarkable" that African-Americans hold the top two places after Jesus Christ. "Ten of the top 30 are African-Americans, African (Nelson Mandela is No. 21) or are of a mixed race (Tiger Woods is No. 23). In addition to those already mentioned, the top 30 includes Jesse Jackson (No. 22), Malcolm X (No. 24), Muhammad Ali (No. 27) and Venus Williams (No. 28)." When respondents were asked to name people who used to be their heroes but no longer are, the largest number of people mentioned Bill Clinton, followed by John F. Kennedy, O.J. Simpson, Jesse Jackson, and Franklin Roosevelt. --

So... who are your heroes?

brian madden
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since 05-06-2000
Posts 4532

1 posted 08-17-2001 04:46 PM       View Profile for brian madden   Email brian madden   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brian madden

A very interesting question, I don't think I have heroes. Probably the fact that I came of age during the 90's. I don't think it was really a hero period, more one of disenchantment. I never trusted politians,
in my country there has been a number of scandals and the peace progress falls apart every couple of months.

However I have people I admire, poets, artists..etc. but I wouldn't call them heroes, they don't inspire me.
If I had to pick someone or something that had an impact on my life it would be a band.
Strange choice I know.

Manic street preachers blend punk, rock, pop, Glam with 20th century iconography, literature and socialism politics.

They are like the Clash meets New York Dolls meets Plath, Mailer, Easton Ellis and Burroughs.

They come from Wales, a country looked down up by the majority of the British Isles had workclass backgrounds. When they started in the early 1990's most music was dance or bubble pop, they exploded on the scene with a punk energy and a pretentious attitude that would be the biggest and best band ever.
They aren't. They are quite big in Europe. The band opened my eyes to a variety of sources, references in their lyrics quotes on their album sleeves.

They would not be heroes, I simply admire their approach in life to prove themselves
through reading, education, their intelligence, the fact that despite their success they are still come across as quite genuine people. Also they write great tunes.  

Paula Finn
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since 06-17-2000
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2 posted 08-17-2001 10:54 PM       View Profile for Paula Finn   Email Paula Finn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Paula Finn Granny has always been the woman I most admire...she was the cement that held our VERY large family together...who gave us a sense of ourselves...she raised nine kids and numerous grandkids...and she always had teach, to play, to a group...firefighters, police, emt's paramedics...those people are always heroes.
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas

3 posted 08-18-2001 10:55 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

This topic is a toughie, LR. I was raised in the 70's, a time of political scandal, social scandal, rampant drug usage by elites, and horrible fashion. Plus, well, I guess you could say that I was born age 68, being a very cynical and jaded child even before I entered the educational socialistic school system (progression at the rate of the slowest person), and knew that people are fallable. I didn't see it as fair to them to place them on high, only to become disenfranchised when they acted human, even at that early age. So, I can't say I ever had heroes. The ones you listed as part of the surveys might be people I admire, or think highly of. Then, I had no heroes. Nowadays, I have one I guess you could call a hero, since his life inspires me to be more than I am, Jesus.
since 06-29-2000
Posts 484
Houston, Texas

4 posted 08-19-2001 12:30 PM       View Profile for Rex   Email Rex   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Rex's Home Page   View IP for Rex

Well, according to Webster's, the definition of a hero is:

1.A figure in mythology and legend renowned for great strength, courage, and daring.

2.A man celebrated for special achievements and attributes.

3.The leading male character in a story or play.

Therefore, they could be the following:

1. Wyatt Earp
2. George Patton
3. John Wayne

However they, like the rest of us, fall into the fourth Webster's definition:

4.A long split sandwich roll containing a variety of fillings.

As with most polls the number of those polled cannot be reflective of the nation as a whole, nor can it be a true "cross section" of the populace!  Polls are the "close cousin" of statistics: They can tell you anything you want them to. I also find it interesting and sad that they feel the need to tell the rest of us who Colin Powell is!  It reminds me of those radio commercials that use a name in a phone number: the announcer always has to tell us how to spell the name!  This should tell us all something about our current society!
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Recess, OfYourMind

5 posted 08-19-2001 02:06 PM       View Profile for mariee66   Email mariee66   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for mariee66

My mom would be one, and the other...don't laugh...Clara Barton.
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia

6 posted 08-19-2001 02:40 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Polls are not a close cousin of statistics they are an application of that science.  And -- statistics cannot tell us anything we want -- they can merely represent mathmatically the condition of a population -- of anything.

The tricky part of statistics is in the interpretation of what the numbers are -- for example 100% of people eat food and 100% of people will die.  These two things may correlate strongly or weakly -- or perhaps not at all, but, the numbers are what they are -- correlation of groups of data requires expertise -- which is what polling organisations have -- and why they are paid well for their services.

That said -- I will say that one of my hero's is Dr. W. Edwards Deming.  A brave humanitarian who used his knowledge to improve the human condition.
Poet deVine
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Hurricane Alley

7 posted 08-20-2001 10:22 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

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Member Rara Avis
since 11-06-2000
Posts 8628
Deep in the heart

8 posted 08-20-2001 12:08 PM       View Profile for Interloper   Email Interloper   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Interloper

Ok, Here they are, and only the top one cannot be changed in order of importance:

Jesus Christ
John Wayne
Chesty Puller
Pappy Boyington
George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
Paul the Apostle
Poet Devine
Cpat Hair
Lone Wolf
Irish Rose
Lady in White
Snow Pants
Doreen Peri

[This message has been edited by Interloper (edited 08-20-2001).]

since 06-29-2000
Posts 484
Houston, Texas

9 posted 08-21-2001 01:37 PM       View Profile for Rex   Email Rex   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Rex's Home Page   View IP for Rex


To me, statistics and polls are close cousins simply due to the fact of how they are used in today's society. You are quite correct (technically) that polls are the result of "statistical" analysis of polling data. What I am concerned about is the manipulation of the data that is being analyzed. From a scientific point of view statistics are straightforward, but if I want to achieve a certain result from an analysis I can do so by manipulating the data that is being analyzed.  In the case of polls I can pick the type of people I want polled and I can formulate the poll questions to favor the result I desire. This is being done all the time in American politics.

In another example (which is also political)let's look at the anti-smoking campaign. First of all, let me say that I do not want to debate this issue with anyone. I don't care if you smoke, don't smoke, or hate smokers...OK?  The media and health care practioners are always going on about the "fact" that 400,000 Americans each year die of smoking related causes. How do we (by this I mean the public) know that? Are we ever given details of the analysis used to determine this "fact"? Does anyone (again the public) ever ask? The answer is obviously no. Exactly what is a "smoking related" death? If someone is killed in an auto accident and happens to have a package of cigarettes in their this lumped in as a "smoking related death"? I certainly don't know the answer, but if I was an anti-smoking protestor and was doing this analysis, I would include it. Before the EPA declared side-stream smoke to be a hazard to healthy people and the FDA declared nicotine to be a carcinogen they claimed to have reviewed all pertinent studies on the subject. Prior to these declarations by the EPA and FDA there were (worldwide) 26 studies done on the subject. Of these, 23 found no correlation between side-stream cigarette smoke and lung cancer. Of the remaining three that did there were no other environmental considerations taken into account. By this I mean that if you were a coal miner and a smoker, your death was attributable to smoking only and the fact that you were a coal miner was not even taken into consideration. This is what I mean about manipulation. The latest study by the World Health Organization(WHO)also found no such correlation.

So, when Compuserve says a poll conducted through a "cross section" of America shows this or that, I take it with a large grain of salt...unless I know all the particulars.

As far as W.Edwards Deming goes, he did a great job of teaching the Japanese about SQC. He also attempted to teach the same thing to America, but we didn't want to listen. The fact that the Japanese did is readily apparent in the great increases in quality of their products since world war II. The only person that has made great strides in educating American management in the value of quality is Phil Crosby!    
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia

10 posted 08-21-2001 01:51 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel


If you hate statistics and polls and don't trust them -- that's a fine topic to rant about in the alley..

This is a friendly little thread about heroes and I'm not going to debate you here.
since 06-29-2000
Posts 484
Houston, Texas

11 posted 08-21-2001 02:32 PM       View Profile for Rex   Email Rex   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Rex's Home Page   View IP for Rex


Well,since I wasn't looking for a debate in the first place that's fine with me. My first response in this thread was made in jest. My second was made in reply to your pontification regarding statistics. Obviously your definition of "ranting" is far different than mine. Regards.
Poet deVine
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since 05-26-99
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Hurricane Alley

12 posted 08-21-2001 04:47 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

My daughter Kristin and my son Kevin..for being the kind of people who donate blood, sit on a jury, give of themselves, use their abilities to the fullest and STILL have time for a sense of humor...

All those who were unsung pioneers...the nameless ones who forged ahead without concern for being in a record book...for the first black child in an all white school.. the first woman who voted..

All those who suffered and rose above it to prove that the human spirit can survive!
Member Elite
since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797

13 posted 08-26-2001 08:44 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

I see anyone who has given selflessly to anyone a person of honor. Even some of my enemies have helped me realize a dream. I wish I could pin medals of honor on each one. Even if I might prick the enemy,(JOKE) they  still have brought a higher understanding. The small things shouldn't go unnoticed. For the Johnnys and the Janes of everyday life are the ones that make it possible for some to be brilliant. Through their tiny uplifting, we try our wings. To me, in trying of the ultimate reward. To rise up in the end, alongside with Christ. My personal spiritual belief.  Great topic.

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since 02-02-2000
Posts 6304

14 posted 08-26-2001 03:03 PM       View Profile for anonymousfemale   Email anonymousfemale   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anonymousfemale

I'm going to have to go with the number one option and say my mother. She has done so much and has gotten me out of a ton of trouble in the past and will no doubt continue to in the future. I would have been expelled years ago if it wasn't for her and I would have been arrested and thrown in jail if she hadn't been a quicker talker than her smart ass daughter. This woman is too generious for her own good but she has the kindest heart I know of EXCEPT when you cross her. Then you have to start running because she'll kill you. Hehe.  
I could go on and on but I don't bore you all.  

I'm a little teapot, short and stout! Here is my handle, here is my spout. *toot toot*

Marge Tindal
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Florida's Foreverly Shores

15 posted 08-26-2001 05:30 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

Annie Wainright - My great grandmother
Tom Landry - Of Dallas Cowboy coaching fame
Sequoyah - Creator of the Cherokee alphabet

~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~

Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia

16 posted 08-27-2001 12:40 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Some interesting responses here... thanks to all of you.

I think when I was growing up my heroes were more fictional characters than real ones... Spiderman, Captian Kirk, Spock... Abraham Lincoln was probably one of the few real people on my list (and growing up in the Southeast that wasn't a real popular choice)-- so to an extent I can sympathize with Alicat and Brian -- but gentlemen there is always someone though that we look toward even if we can't find someone from real life.

Of course -- my greatest hero of all -- was my father.  Even though I don't believe what he believed or agree with everything he said -- he lived his life in an honorable manner and did it with strength and courage, and on his own terms -- worthy enough of being a hero.

And back to Dr. Deming -- if anyone doesn't know the history there (and you probably don't because he's an unsung hero) run a web search -- you might be interested to find that it was his aid given to the War Department during WWII that facilitated our victory over axis forces -- but you'd never have heard him say it -- and later in life he spent most of his efforts in helping people and helping companies see that it wasn't just about the numbers -- that people are the most valuable asset.
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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17 posted 08-28-2001 08:49 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

So many heroes die unsung everyday. But I would like to take the opportunity to thank Mr. Lloyd B. Clark---a high school teacher who looked past the appearances of so many kids "with bad attitudes" and changed their lives. Thanks, Mr. Clark...I will never forget all that you did for me and so many others.  
since 07-31-2001
Posts 206

18 posted 08-28-2001 01:28 PM       View Profile for citizenx   Email citizenx   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for citizenx

I see heroes as people doing extraordinary things as being on a higher plain of existance. You know like superman.
I wouldn't name anyone famous because I don't personally know these people, everyone is human, flawed in their own way. I admire people but no person seems like a blinding icon of inspiration.

If anyone deserves the term hero out of anyone I know, it is my parents.

They are kind hearted people who I have seen give generously and help out members of my less immediate family where my other relatives turn their backs. I love my parents they are not my heroes but are as close as anyone has come to being, for me.  

Jesse Jaymz
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since 01-24-2000
Posts 757
Youngstown, ohio

19 posted 08-31-2001 12:43 PM       View Profile for Jesse Jaymz   Email Jesse Jaymz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jesse Jaymz's Home Page   View IP for Jesse Jaymz

i acually had to sit and think about this.  so i did and this is what i came up with.  in no order of course.

Stevie Ray Vaughan-  he has to be arguably one of the best guitar players to ever walk this earth.  he put his heart and soul into his guitar playing.  and just as he started to get his life together when he passed away in a helichopter crash.  i listen to his music today and still it amazes me.

Robert E. Lee- now those of yall that know me well know that i am huge into the civil war.  and that i even did some re-enacting in my time.  i have alot of respect and admeration for this man.  think about it he graduated first in his class from west point.  and when the war started he was offered control of all the union armies.  he TURNED IT DOWN saying my family, my home, is in virginia.  and if it goes so do i.  to me that is very couragus.  he could have had it all and chose to leave with his state.  that gets my instant respect.  dont know how many people would do that now a days

Ronnie Van Zant- the former lead singer of lynyrd skynyrd.  i know i know odd choice but i am odd too    he was a great song writer in my mind.  and just like stevie, just as his life started to get good, just as he cleaned up his act, he dies in a plane crash.  we miss you ronnie

Jesse James-  hmmmm  kinda obvoius choice huh??  he was a modern day robin hood.  taking from the railroads that hurt the south at that time.  and like everyone else i like almost, just as he started to get his life in order, his best friend shots him in his own home.

MetallicA-  yes metallica.  there music had a huge influance on my life.  still does.  i heard them when they first came out in 83.  thanks to the fact that they recorded there first album down the road from me.  but the song writing and lyrics of there songs just hit me deep.  they have gotten me threw many a night.  

thats all i could really think of right now.  i know they are very odd choices.  and if you noticed alot of them are musicians.  music is in my blood.  good topic  

When I was a young man I vowed never to marry until I found the ideal woman. Well, I found her - but, alas, she was waiting for the perfect man. :(

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Member Rara Avis
since 06-03-2000
Posts 9897
The Shores of Alone

20 posted 09-01-2001 05:25 PM       View Profile for catalinamoon   Email catalinamoon   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit catalinamoon's Home Page   View IP for catalinamoon

Wow, interesting thread. I have to say Jimmy Carter, Jesse Jackson, and my Grandpa, (cause he took a single woman with a child in the 1930's, and married her and loved the little girl like she was his own. That was my Mom.)

Now going off into mythology, Superman and Robin Hood are high on my list  LOL
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia

21 posted 09-04-2001 02:36 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I'm crushed...

Superman and Robinhood were myths?

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