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ESP
Member Elite
since 01-25-2000
Posts 2574
Floating gently on a cloud....


0 posted 04-21-2000 12:33 PM       View Profile for ESP   Email ESP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ESP

What do you all think about how the first amendmet freedom of speech protects the people who run hate sites and porn sites? Don't you think they should be stopped and the first amendment revised? Children can so easily get into these sites...you can learn how to construct a bomb on some-step by step! What do you think about this?

Love and hugs to all,
Lizzie




 "Poetry is the true expression of my soul, it is my ultimate means of communication. It is my rainbow of delight."
Mistikman
Senior Member
since 01-10-2000
Posts 729
San Jose, CA, USA


1 posted 04-21-2000 02:20 PM       View Profile for Mistikman   Email Mistikman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mistikman

I may not agree with what they have to say, but I will defend to the death their right to say it. I forgot who exactly it was who said this, but I stand by it completely. Those who have different opinions than myself are just as free to their as I am to mine. And on the bomb thing, I could figure out how to make a bomb from a simple high school chemisty book, does that mean we have to start censoring everything that could possibly show our kids how to do something dangerous? of course not. It is up to the parents of the kids to teach them right and wrong. If a child is brought up correcly, he or she will have no urge to find out how to make a bomb to kill people. Freedom is what America was built on, and if you take it away for the segment of the population that you dont feel deserves it, then they will use the precedent set to take away freedoms from others who have views consistent with the status quo. The freedom of speech is absolute and universal except for a few special conditions (if it creates a clear and present danger, for example)

Well, thats the end of my little spiel  
ESP
Member Elite
since 01-25-2000
Posts 2574
Floating gently on a cloud....


2 posted 04-21-2000 03:02 PM       View Profile for ESP   Email ESP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ESP

I dunno Mistikman...children can't help being curious alot of the time. Plus, it is so easy to stumble on to such a site accidentally, eg: One time a while back I was looking up some song lyrics, so I type in song lyrics in the search and I get a list of websites of which a quarter are porn sites. I think the first amendment should be like in Canada(not cos I live or come from there) where speech offensive to people..i.e anti semitism, racism etc is not smiled upon and labelled as free speech. I watched a programme on Hate sites today...there is this neo nazi website, there is one for adults and a junior one run by a ten year old neo nazi. They recruit people to join them and stuff. Then there is the anti abortion sites that give out personal info on the abortion physicists so that people can murder them. We invented this world wide web internet thing, we have to figure out how to control it. Also, think about this: The ku klux klan for example, they want freedom of speech now to say what they think about white supremacy and all that crap but if they were to get into power would they give everybody freedom of speech? No. I find it all a little hazy. Freedom of speech is all well and good but what if it harms people psychologically? There is this thing called brain washing. They brain wash children in to believing all sorts of things. Anyway *jumping off soap box* what's everyone else got to say?

Love and hugs to all,
Lizzie



 "Poetry is the true expression of my soul, it is my ultimate means of communication. It is my rainbow of delight."
Nan
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Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


3 posted 04-21-2000 03:15 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

It would seem sensible to me that the same parameters that people have to adhere to in day to day life should also apply to the cyberworld.  If words or deeds are illegal to use in "real" time, then they should be equally acceptable or nonacceptable online.  

The issue of enforcing these laws becomes relevant, as the "net" knows no worldly boundaries... Sounds like a discussion of astronomical proportions to me...
Mistikman
Senior Member
since 01-10-2000
Posts 729
San Jose, CA, USA


4 posted 04-21-2000 05:07 PM       View Profile for Mistikman   Email Mistikman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mistikman

Well, the boundaries in real life(legally at least) DO apply in cyberspace. It is not illegal to print up flyers preaching hate and distributing them, nor is pornography illegal. I agree the ease of finding it online is a problem, the fact that it exists is not breaking any laws. They have a right to post it on the internet just like they have a right to post it in a magazine or on flyers to be passed out. I believe ethics and morals are more a personal thing, and I wouldnt dare force mine on another, because I would not want another to force his upon me.

If it suddenly became illegal to post opinions that go against popular opinion(as is the case with the KKK and neo-nazi's) then that would give tons of legal precedent to those we seek to silence, which they could use to silence those who's views they do not approve of. Freedom of speech is not only for those we believe are right, it is for everyone.
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


5 posted 04-21-2000 09:23 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, Mistikman, I agree with you about the Freedom of Expression...as long as the Responsibility for that Expression is taken into consideration as well.  As for children, if their parents don't want them to view such material, then it is their responsibility as parents to safeguard their computer in such a way as to make it impossible for their kids to connect to such sites.

Bottom line: Yes, you can have the freedoms of the First Amendment, as long as they do not infringe on someone else's rights.  And with Rights come Responsibility.  Can't have one without the other.


Alicat
Poet deVine
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since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


6 posted 04-21-2000 09:40 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

What I find offensive and someone else finds offensive may be two different things...the examples you cite are what I find offensive. I don't think they should be censored, just put into an area where I don't have to look at them.
ESP
Member Elite
since 01-25-2000
Posts 2574
Floating gently on a cloud....


7 posted 04-22-2000 03:08 AM       View Profile for ESP   Email ESP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ESP

OK! I agree with what Sharon said about the offensive sites being "put into an area where I don't have to look at them". You guys have raised some very good points and I just wanted to thank you for replying!!

Thanks!

Love and hugs,
Lizzie

  


 "Poetry is the true expression of my soul, it is my ultimate means of communication. It is my rainbow of delight."
Sunshine
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Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


8 posted 04-22-2000 08:58 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

My simplistic viewpoint is this: ADULT websites should and could [anything is possible] have a password connected to them - proof of age [in such a way as Ron himself has done here] and then applied password for those wierdos who simply need porn and other trash to get their goodies...something like the V-chip on TVs.  I know, too simple.  But possible, no?
ESP
Member Elite
since 01-25-2000
Posts 2574
Floating gently on a cloud....


9 posted 04-22-2000 11:56 AM       View Profile for ESP   Email ESP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ESP

I agree Sunshine! And, simple is good too. Anyone else got something to add?

Love and hugs,
Lizzie


 "Poetry is the true expression of my soul, it is my ultimate means of communication. It is my rainbow of delight."
Mistikman
Senior Member
since 01-10-2000
Posts 729
San Jose, CA, USA


10 posted 04-22-2000 01:33 PM       View Profile for Mistikman   Email Mistikman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mistikman

well, a minor thing on the proving your age online. How would that work? I could have easily(before everyone knew me, heh) gotten admittance to the adult forum here by saying I was over 18. There is no real way Ron or anyone else that doesnt know me in real life could have known that I am indeed only 17. Passwords are a good idea, but they wont stop the more determined of us out there  
ESP
Member Elite
since 01-25-2000
Posts 2574
Floating gently on a cloud....


11 posted 04-23-2000 03:13 AM       View Profile for ESP   Email ESP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ESP

True, Mistikman....you got any other ideas?

Love and hugs,
Lizzie



 "Poetry is the true expression of my soul, it is my ultimate means of communication. It is my rainbow of delight."
netswan
Senior Member
since 03-28-2000
Posts 1395
Washington


12 posted 04-24-2000 03:37 AM       View Profile for netswan   Email netswan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit netswan's Home Page   View IP for netswan

What an interesting Topic ESP
It would be nice not to have pornography,
but it is a free enterprise, and if
we take free enterprise away, then
we no longer have "freedom"  

With Freedom comes responsibility - and
in this case pornography is a business -
sigh ------SO that leaves it to the
parents/guardians/schools/and religious
orders -- to teach our chidren  that until
they are old enough that stuff is a no no!

And that is the bottom line.  The problem
is the "lack of discipline" in the home
environment -- It is simple, if my kids,
should they be younger now - got on the
net and went to such a site after being
carefully explained to about such sites.
I WOULD take their computer away for
30 days and not give it back until they
promised -- and if they would try to wheedle me for it (I would add on more
days. ---Privileges are earned----

And, they are lost through not following
well stated rules ----I never punished
a child on first offense -- just not
my way of raising kids, but a lecture
and why they cannot pursue whatever it
was they were doing was in order, and
should they break the NOW CLARIFIED rules
they knew they were in big loss of
privileges.  

We cannot protect our kids from the net,
tv or local libraries. But we can teach
them why we don't want them to have that
stuff, and we can teach them about such
things, so they know what makes babies
and what doesn't  and guide them to
healthy individuals with minds that
can make wise choices.

I stand for freedom of speech and
enterprise on this one --)

netswan
ESP
Member Elite
since 01-25-2000
Posts 2574
Floating gently on a cloud....


13 posted 04-24-2000 04:05 AM       View Profile for ESP   Email ESP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ESP

You speak very wisely, Netswan....I thank you for sharing your opinion with me. You have given me much to think about...again, thank you.

Love and hugs,
Lizzie



 "Poetry is the true expression of my soul, it is my ultimate means of communication. It is my rainbow of delight."
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