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Passions in Poetry

Up or Down?

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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


0 posted 10-10-1999 11:29 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

The age old question of should the toilet seat be left up, or down.
It is my proposition that we men should be allowed to leave the seat up.
Now I know that you gals insist that you might fall prey to a wet behind, should you unknowingly attempt to take your position in the middle of the night and the seat is up. You insist that we men should place the seat once again in the down position, to prevent you from accidentaly falling in.
But, equal rights being what they are, I hereby propose something different.
I propose that base on logic, we men should be allowed to leave the seat up.
My reasoning is as follows.

1: It requires less effort for a woman to put the seat down when she is ready to use the facilities, than it does a man to lift it up when he takes his place.
2: Men are also subject to a different form of nightime attack. If the seat is left in the down position, and a man does his business, it is likely to end up all over the place. A towel will quickly cure the woman of a wet bottom, whereas the man's mess requires more effort to tidy up after.
3: If you have a toilet drop-in, then it is a waste to have your prety colored water all covered up. It should be proudly displayed! (Please make sure the toilet remains flushed however.)

So, I hereby move that we pass a vote to proclaim that men are allowed to leave the seat up.
Do I hear a second?

Tally so far:

Down:
Dragoness
Nan???
JP

Up:
Uhhh, anyone???

As Is:
Christopher
PDV
Saxoness

Cowards:
hoot_owl_rn

Inmates:
Justin Thyme




[This message has been edited by Poet deVine (edited 09-03-2000).]
Dragoness
Senior Member
since 08-07-99
Posts 525


1 posted 10-10-1999 11:40 PM       View Profile for Dragoness   Email Dragoness   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Dragoness's Home Page   View IP for Dragoness

Chris...it has been my experience that whether the seat is up or down a man will "do his business" And ususally all over.As for the mess we women get to clean it up anyway.therefore a dry but and dirty floor is much better than a wet butt and dirty floor.
As to drop in's: we ask for the seat to be left down not the lid.

Vote for: seat DOWN!!!!!( little brothers are sooooo annoying at times!!! Love Ya Chris!)

------------------
Set you heart free and your mind will follow.

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


2 posted 10-10-1999 11:45 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Christopher, dear Christopher

Let's take these points one at a time...

1. How does one rationalize that it takes less effort for the female to put the seat down? It would seem to me to be a balanced expenditure of energy - Ergo - This point one is moot.
2. How is a man's nighttime "attack" different? It seems to me that if it were in fact "different" as you avow - then he would by necessity need to do his business in a sitting position - Ergo - Not only do you lose your point, but you acquiesce to the ladies - One point for us.
3. We would prefer to do without the pretty water in deference to having the cover as we like it - down - Ergo - no point for the men.

However, now that you mention wet bottoms in the middle of the night - How does it feel for a man to plunge headlong into the potty at 3:00 am if you have more serious business to attend to? Just wondering... Need a towel? There are probably some in the closet - You can get one yourself, can't ya? I need my beauty sleep....



[This message has been edited by Nan (edited 10-11-1999).]
hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius
since 07-05-99
Posts 11105
Glen Hope, PA USA


3 posted 10-11-1999 12:52 AM       View Profile for hoot_owl_rn   Email hoot_owl_rn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit hoot_owl_rn's Home Page   View IP for hoot_owl_rn

LOL.....I think I'll stay out of this fight, but Chris....you don't get my vote for once
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


4 posted 10-11-1999 01:11 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

You make some interesting points here. For the sake of arguments, I think you're right! Who said either of us has to leave the seat up or down? The lid up/down is a matter of courtesy..who say's men have to be the courteous ones all the time. I don't mind being courteous and putting the seat down when I have to go...and putting it up when I'm done..... Look before you er .. leap! Leave the lid up if you want..doesn't matter to me! I can just as easily put it down again!


[This message has been edited by Poet deVine (edited 10-11-1999).]
Justin Thyme
Member
since 09-13-99
Posts 228
Oz


5 posted 10-11-1999 12:24 PM       View Profile for Justin Thyme   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Justin Thyme

I'll answer you, Christopher, with a little ditty I just wrote called Potty Party.

I posted it in Open Poetry #3.

[This message has been edited by Justin Thyme (edited 10-11-1999).]
Saxoness
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Senior Member
since 07-18-99
Posts 1176
Texas


6 posted 10-11-1999 07:01 PM       View Profile for Saxoness   Email Saxoness   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Saxoness

Here is my argument.

Men....leave the seat up if you wish!

However.

If and when I ever get married.......and I am completely woken up by a cold splash of water at 3am, don't think that I won't make sure hubby is awake to hear all about my experience, that is until I am warm enough to fall back asleep. Share and share alike, right?

------------------
"Glory remains unaware of my neglected dwelling where alone
I sing my tearful song which has charms only for me."

-Charles Brugnot


JP
Senior Member
since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


7 posted 10-13-1999 02:06 AM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

I cannot believe some of the stuff I am reading! "we women are the one's who clean it anyway..." ? Please! That is the most sexist remark I have ever heard!

As for the rest of it, it is a non issue - any man who drinks his weight in beer regularly certainly knows the joys of being able to sit to "do his business"

Leave the seat down.

------------------
Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
JP

Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


8 posted 10-13-1999 03:17 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Nan said:
quote:
1. How does one rationalize that it takes less effort for the female to put the seat down? It would seem to me to be a balanced expenditure of energy - Ergo - This point one is moot.


Disagreed Nan. While lifting the seat, one must maintain the upward force until it reaches the apex of its swing. However, to lower the seat, one must only nudge it and allow it to fall the rest of the way. And if we are required to maintain the seat in a down position, then we have to first lift it up, then when done, place it back down. Even allowing the possibility of a balanced expenditure (which I do not,) then the effort is doubled by this requirement. Ergo- your point is moot and mine remains valid.


Nan said:
quote:
2. How is a man's nighttime "attack" different? It seems to me that if it were in fact "different" as you avow -then he would by necessity need to do his business in a sitting position - Ergo - Not only do you lose your point, but you acquiesce to the ladies - One point for us.


Since you intentionally misinterpreted this statement Nan, let me clarify it for you. The manner in which a male's common form of nighttime attack differs from the females is in the manner of delivery. A man's most likely position is from a position of standing. Whereas with a female, it is likely done sitting. Nighttime attacks of the other variety are much less common. So much so, that they are invalidated when discussing this matter on the scope with which we are dealing with it. Point is indeed given, but not to your side, rather to ours.

Nan said:
quote:
3. We would prefer to do without the pretty water in deference to having the cover as we like it - down - Ergo -no point for the men.


And in this statement, you show a decided lack of interest in the "feelings" of the male counterpart. Whree is it written that your preference takes precedence over that of a man's? By saying this, you are implying that they are moot merely because you "prefer" not to have it so. So agreed, no point for the males here, but neither one for you.
Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


9 posted 10-13-1999 11:49 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

Oh please!
Christopher, Christopher, Christopher.
Let me repeat what I have already told you:

IF A GUY NEEDS TO CONSIDER THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY IT TAKES TO LIFT A TOILET SEAT THEN HE IS A SAD SAD SPECIMEN INDEED!
And on the contrary - I did indeed understand your point - that it is a fact in itself. Which is precisely WHY I dispute this as a valid reason - you can't separate this from its context! It becomes invalid if it is a stand alone point from the action of lifting the seat. The amount of energy is minimal in any case - perhaps for females a bit less, BUT, if you're going to be picky - and I pre-apologise to any die hard feminists here, BUT: traditionally females are considered the physically weaker sex dear, so surely it all balances out if you consider that - based on the law of averages of course.

I'm sorry, but all I can say to point two is:
Ever heard of the light switch...??
Men are trained from infancy how to aim, and if a guy can't get it right in his house then he is a:
SAD SAD SPECIMEN INDEED!

and anyone who actually gives a toss about the coloUr of toilet water needs to get a life - VERY QUICKLY!

So. I'm sorry - but I need to hear more of these reasons you have, my dear, before I can give you any support!!!!
Note though, that I am NOT in favoUUUUr of the toilet staying down either.
I say equal rights.

3 options, as I have said to you already:

1 - rip off the damn seat and if anyone wants it, they can place it there themselves!

2 - The man leaves it up when he's finished and vice versa.

3 - My favoUrite - the woman puts it up and the man puts it down - making for a sharing, caring, harmonious household. (Nullified if you live in a bachelor pad or the female equivalent...)

Oh, one more I didn't mention:

We could just go back to squatting over holes in the ground...no worries!

Kelly
Member
since 07-03-99
Posts 153


10 posted 10-14-1999 02:06 AM       View Profile for Kelly   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kelly

It really doesn't matter to me at all. I do think it looks better when it's down. As long as it's clean I don't care.
Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


11 posted 10-14-1999 05:07 AM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

Ok, Christopher. It takes the man more energey to put the seat up, than for us female to put it down, I'll give you that. But we have to go to the trouble of sitting down, and then getting back up. That takes substantially more energy, don't you think?

------------------
"Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage."
-Billy Corgan-
Justin Thyme
Member
since 09-13-99
Posts 228
Oz


12 posted 10-14-1999 09:35 AM       View Profile for Justin Thyme   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Justin Thyme

Whaddya mean, "INMATE"?
What's that you stated?
I may be locked up~!
But I'm not incarcerated!
There's no toilet seats
at the jail down the street.
So that's not an issue,
and let me repeat....

I am NOT an inmate!
No prisoner here!
I'm an ARTIST, dear brotha--
With BOTH of my ears.
If I were a criminal,
of ill repute,
I'd never be able to
paint at the 'stute!

My name's Leonardo!
A painter, you see.
Don't call me an "INMATE",
'cause that isn't me!
Here at the 'stute,
the seat it stays down
because 'ol nurse Cratchet
is always around.

They call me a "PATIENT"
not "INMATE", you see!
If I left the seat up,
I'm "LOBOTOMY".


-Justin Thyme
aka Leonardo DaVinci
Serain
Junior Member
since 10-16-1999
Posts 17
Gresham, OR


13 posted 10-24-1999 09:06 PM       View Profile for Serain   Email Serain   Edit/Delete Message     View IP for Serain

whoever cleans it....decides
plain and simple
fjones
Member
since 06-07-99
Posts 101
MS


14 posted 10-24-1999 09:48 PM       View Profile for fjones   Email fjones   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fjones

You young people have so little to worry about. Wait until old age hits. My mate is at the point of sitting on the pot, even worse Iím so far gone some nights I stumble to the toilet with eyes closed and try to sit on his lap!
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


15 posted 10-25-1999 09:40 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Fay! Isn't that called sex? LOL
hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius
since 07-05-99
Posts 11105
Glen Hope, PA USA


16 posted 10-31-1999 10:00 AM       View Profile for hoot_owl_rn   Email hoot_owl_rn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit hoot_owl_rn's Home Page   View IP for hoot_owl_rn

OKAY.....I REFUSE TO BE CALLED A COWARD!!!!


DEFINATELY DOWN!!!!!
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


17 posted 09-02-2000 04:34 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Perhaps a *bump* in an attempt to bring some humor back to the Alley.

(Though I can see this quickly getting out of hand... )
Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


18 posted 09-02-2000 04:59 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Yeah - Well - I'm opening the National Chapter for TSD.... That's Toilet Seats Down!!!.... ...
Erin
Member Elite
since 06-15-2000
Posts 2681
~Chicago~


19 posted 09-02-2000 05:01 PM       View Profile for Erin   Email Erin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Erin

Christopher~~~I could careless how the toliet seat is. But see I live with 2 guys 1 little boy, and my sister. So its like I dont even expected the seat to be down when I need to use the bathroom.
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


20 posted 09-02-2000 06:12 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Most toilets come with a seat AND a lid---BOTH of which should be put down, if only for the practical purpose of keeping the dog from drinking out of the toilet.
Jamie
Member Elite
since 06-26-2000
Posts 3219
Blue Heaven


21 posted 09-02-2000 10:14 PM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

Tis a sad thing to debate the position of a toilet seat. A sadder thing still is the fact that I actually read all the replies.
Perhaps saddest of all is having an opinion on the matter. I think the gender comprising the majority of the household should have control of the toilet seat issue. In the case of gender equality,(ever seen the term used that way?..hehe) I think we should arm wrestle for it.



Jamie

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil.
"Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely".


Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


22 posted 09-02-2000 10:36 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well Chris...I will vote up, but it really is a moot point, especially if there is a bathtub within shootin distance.  Afterall, it's big, roomy, and the walls are meant to get wet.  This way, the crapper lid can stay down for the squatters and we men can exercise our freedom to draw on the walls like the children we all are deep down in side...and if there is a hanging loofah, all the better.  Target practice, hand-eye-coordination, advance physics and calculus, for that trajectory curve.  This way, everybody can be happy, except maybe for the next person to use that poor defenseless loofah....  
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


23 posted 09-02-2000 10:36 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I stayed out of this last time...and will stay out of it this time..not because I don't have an opinion...but because WHATEVER I say, Christopher will disagree with it...just to cause me grief [of the best kind]!
Salooma
Senior Member
since 01-28-2000
Posts 803


24 posted 09-02-2000 11:07 PM       View Profile for Salooma   Email Salooma   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Salooma

LOL...now this is hillarious   Well my opinion is that both the seat and the cover should be left down. Just for the purpose that looking at toliet water all day, isn't such an astounding thought. And men can eventually get used to that. I share a bathroom with my older brother and through years and years of obedience, he's been able to but both down after using the bathroom. I mean it's just the toliet. If we're gonna argue, why do men leave the caps of the toothpaste and make a mess in the sink? Shaving....there's that other thing....right now I'm battling the sink mess. You just can't get them to clean up after themselves so why should we let them have their way with the toliet?      

Salma
 
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